exceptional promise/talent in academic appointment route

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:31 pm

Hi,

I am preparing my application for the academic and research appointment route in GTV. I am confused by the question "Are you applying under exceptional promise or exceptional talent criteria?"

The gov.uk webpage on academic and research appointment route does not mention anything about exceptional promise or exceptional talent criteria. This is mentioned only in the pathways for individual fellowship or Peer review.

Can somebody help in choosing the right option for this question? Has someone else already chosen a particular option and received a positive/negative decision?

Thanks everybody for input.

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:57 am

Hi moderators,

Can one of you respond to my query?
Thanks a lot, this will really clarify things for me. I am all set to submit my endorsement application.

Regards,
SD002

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 pm

For those who are still looking for an answer to this question, I applied as exceptional promise and secured an endorsement from RAE with an offer for a Lecturer position.

One suggestion, I would make is please do add your job description if you are applying in this category. This is one document I didn't add and RAE requested me for this document.

tom14 · Post by **tom14** » Tue May 04, 2021 5:30 pm

For exceptional talent endorsement an important criteria is that in the academic/research
position, the applicant has responsibility for directing or leading an individual or team in a research project or programme of work. The job description and a confirmation from current line manager would serve the purpose, which gets reflected in the supporting letter written by the director of Human Resources. One more important thing to note is that, even if an individual had been offered an academic/research position few years back, s/he can apply through this route (Route 1).

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Tue May 04, 2021 10:00 pm

tom14 wrote: ↑
Tue May 04, 2021 5:30 pm
For exceptional talent endorsement an important criteria is that in the academic/research
position, the applicant has responsibility for directing or leading an individual or team in a research project or programme of work. The job description and a confirmation from current line manager would serve the purpose, which gets reflected in the supporting letter written by the director of Human Resources. One more important thing to note is that, even if an individual had been offered an academic/research position few years back, s/he can apply through this route (Route 1).

What you highlight above has been mentioned as a general requirement for the Route 1 (Academic appointment) under Global Talent Visa. I am not sure if a difference between criteria for exceptional talent and exceptional promise categories has been mentioned in the documentation under Route 1. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

krishnakumarg · Post by **krishnakumarg** » Tue May 11, 2021 10:25 am

Apply as an exceptional promise, unless you are already a well-known researcher in your field. By well-known, I mean, you should essentially be a leader in your field, recognisable by the top peers publishing in your same area. You would have considerable influence on the direction of research in your field, and be leading a sizeable research group. You would have been named as a PI on funded grants, and have invited memberships at distinguished societies.

If you are a recent PhD or a new post-doc, please choose "exceptional promise".

krishnakumarg · Post by **krishnakumarg** » Tue May 11, 2021 10:26 am

SD002 wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 pm
For those who are still looking for an answer to this question, I applied as exceptional promise and secured an endorsement from RAE with an offer for a Lecturer position.

One suggestion, I would make is please do add your job description if you are applying in this category. This is one document I didn't add and RAE requested me for this document.

Congrats. What is your field of research?

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Tue May 11, 2021 11:24 am

krishnakumarg wrote: ↑
Tue May 11, 2021 10:26 am

SD002 wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 pm
For those who are still looking for an answer to this question, I applied as exceptional promise and secured an endorsement from RAE with an offer for a Lecturer position.

One suggestion, I would make is please do add your job description if you are applying in this category. This is one document I didn't add and RAE requested me for this document.
Congrats. What is your field of research?

My field of research is machine learning and computational neuroscience.

krishnakumarg · Post by **krishnakumarg** » Tue May 11, 2021 11:41 am

Ok.

The https://www.gov.uk/global-talent-resea ... researcher pathway is pretty hard since the academic position that you will hold need to have a strong leadership component built into the job requirements.

It says:

Your job offer will need to involve either:
directing or leading an individual or team in a research or innovation project, or programme of work

being responsible for academic, research or innovation leadership and development

The relevant immigration rules https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... bal-talent further clarifies this requirement by stating that:

GTE 8.3. An applicant applying on the fast track under GTE 8.2.(b) must have accepted the offer for the position at the approved institution or institute, where they must:

(a) have responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
(b) direct or lead:
(i) an individual or team research project or programme of work; or
(ii) an individual or team innovation project or programme of work.

Do you believe you qualified, given these requirements? If so, then this was an administrative error, and you need to have raised it in your administrative review.

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Tue May 11, 2021 3:20 pm

krishnakumarg wrote: ↑
Tue May 11, 2021 11:41 am
Ok.

The https://www.gov.uk/global-talent-resea ... researcher pathway is pretty hard since the academic position that you will hold need to have a strong leadership component built into the job requirements.

It says:
Your job offer will need to involve either:
directing or leading an individual or team in a research or innovation project, or programme of work

being responsible for academic, research or innovation leadership and development
The relevant immigration rules https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... bal-talent further clarifies this requirement by stating that:

GTE 8.3. An applicant applying on the fast track under GTE 8.2.(b) must have accepted the offer for the position at the approved institution or institute, where they must:

(a) have responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
(b) direct or lead:
(i) an individual or team research project or programme of work; or
(ii) an individual or team innovation project or programme of work.
Do you believe you qualified, given these requirements? If so, then this was an administrative error, and you need to have raised it in your administrative review.

My endorsement was actually approved. I mentioned the process I followed for other's info.

krishnakumarg · Post by **krishnakumarg** » Tue May 11, 2021 3:40 pm

SD002 wrote: ↑
Tue May 11, 2021 3:20 pm

krishnakumarg wrote: ↑
Tue May 11, 2021 11:41 am
Ok.

The https://www.gov.uk/global-talent-resea ... researcher pathway is pretty hard since the academic position that you will hold need to have a strong leadership component built into the job requirements.

It says:
Your job offer will need to involve either:
directing or leading an individual or team in a research or innovation project, or programme of work

being responsible for academic, research or innovation leadership and development
The relevant immigration rules https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... bal-talent further clarifies this requirement by stating that:

GTE 8.3. An applicant applying on the fast track under GTE 8.2.(b) must have accepted the offer for the position at the approved institution or institute, where they must:

(a) have responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
(b) direct or lead:
(i) an individual or team research project or programme of work; or
(ii) an individual or team innovation project or programme of work.
Do you believe you qualified, given these requirements? If so, then this was an administrative error, and you need to have raised it in your administrative review.
My endorsement was actually approved. I mentioned the process I followed for other's info.

Great stuff. Congrats on the endorsement.

Did you apply under the fast track route based purely on holding a researcher position at a UK univerity?

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Tue May 11, 2021 3:45 pm

krishnakumarg wrote: ↑
Tue May 11, 2021 3:40 pm

SD002 wrote: ↑
Tue May 11, 2021 3:20 pm

krishnakumarg wrote: ↑
Tue May 11, 2021 11:41 am
Ok.

The https://www.gov.uk/global-talent-resea ... researcher pathway is pretty hard since the academic position that you will hold need to have a strong leadership component built into the job requirements.

It says:
Your job offer will need to involve either:
directing or leading an individual or team in a research or innovation project, or programme of work

being responsible for academic, research or innovation leadership and development
The relevant immigration rules https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... bal-talent further clarifies this requirement by stating that:

GTE 8.3. An applicant applying on the fast track under GTE 8.2.(b) must have accepted the offer for the position at the approved institution or institute, where they must:

(a) have responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
(b) direct or lead:
(i) an individual or team research project or programme of work; or
(ii) an individual or team innovation project or programme of work.
Do you believe you qualified, given these requirements? If so, then this was an administrative error, and you need to have raised it in your administrative review.
My endorsement was actually approved. I mentioned the process I followed for other's info.
Great stuff. Congrats on the endorsement.

Did you apply under the fast track route based purely on holding a researcher position at a UK univerity?

Yes, I did.

krishnakumarg · Post by **krishnakumarg** » Tue May 11, 2021 4:15 pm

Ah right. Lecturer, not post-doc. Makes sense. Great stuff.

MonaPhilip · Post by **MonaPhilip** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:00 pm

tom14 wrote: ↑
Tue May 04, 2021 5:30 pm
For exceptional talent endorsement an important criteria is that in the academic/research
position, the applicant has responsibility for directing or leading an individual or team in a research project or programme of work. The job description and a confirmation from current line manager would serve the purpose, which gets reflected in the supporting letter written by the director of Human Resources. One more important thing to note is that, even if an individual had been offered an academic/research position few years back, s/he can apply through this route (Route 1).

I have the same case, I have secured a research job position in the field of machine learning. I didn't get my endorsement, I applied for exceptional talent criteria. My endorsement decision says:

"The application did not sufficiently demonstrate that the position to which the applicant has been appointed either:
1. Has responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
2. Directs or leads an individual or team research or innovation project or programme of work"

My job description mentions the first option clearly. I was so confused until I came across this post. Could the reason be that I applied for exceptional talent not promise? What can I say in the review request so that my application doesn't get wasted bcz of my stupidity?

Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

SD002 · Post by **SD002** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:45 am

MonaPhilip wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:00 pm

tom14 wrote: ↑
Tue May 04, 2021 5:30 pm
For exceptional talent endorsement an important criteria is that in the academic/research
position, the applicant has responsibility for directing or leading an individual or team in a research project or programme of work. The job description and a confirmation from current line manager would serve the purpose, which gets reflected in the supporting letter written by the director of Human Resources. One more important thing to note is that, even if an individual had been offered an academic/research position few years back, s/he can apply through this route (Route 1).
I have the same case, I have secured a research job position in the field of machine learning. I didn't get my endorsement, I applied for exceptional talent criteria. My endorsement decision says:

"The application did not sufficiently demonstrate that the position to which the applicant has been appointed either:
1. Has responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
2. Directs or leads an individual or team research or innovation project or programme of work"

My job description mentions the first option clearly. I was so confused until I came across this post. Could the reason be that I applied for exceptional talent not promise? What can I say in the review request so that my application doesn't get wasted bcz of my stupidity?

Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

I am still not sure what is the specific criterion for exceptional talent as this has not been mentioned anywhere for the academic appointment route (its mentioned, for instance, if you take the peer-review route). I choose exceptional promise to be on safe side. Also, it doesn't really matter whether you apply for exceptional talent or exceptional promise in academic appointment route if your endorsement is from RAE or royal society. In both cases, you can apply for ILR after 3 years.

My job description (JD) mentioned both lines 1 and 2 above verbatim. Since there is an "or" at the end of line 1, you are not expected to have both of these mentioned on your JD. I think you could apply for a review because, as you say, your JD clearly mentions the first item. But, again, I don't know how do they differentiate between exceptional talent and promise.

If its because you choose exceptional talent then there is nothing you can do in review (you have to apply again as exceptional promise). You can't change details of your application in the review. It's an administrative review so they just check if all processes were followed as laid out.

**Please note my replies are based on my own experiences and the documentation available from gov.uk. I am not an expert on immigration matters.**

MonaPhilip · Post by **MonaPhilip** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:35 am

Thanks a lot for the info. It definitely helped. I am gonna try to draw their attention to the evidence present in the application.

MonaPhilip · Post by **MonaPhilip** » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:45 am

Updating on my application process for anyone still looking for an answer to this.

I mentioned earlier that I have a research job, I applied under Exceptional Talent category and got rejected due to the following reason mentioned in my proforma:

The application did not sufficiently demonstrate that the position to which the applicant has
been appointed either:
1. Has responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
2. Directs or leads an individual or team research or innovation project or programme of
work

So I then applied for a review coz it didn't make any sense to me as my supporting letter clearly mentioned that my job type was the first option.

When I received review on my application, it basically stated that the first route is not for candidates leading, planning and managing a project, it's the second one. Therefore, it got rejected because we chose the wrong route. Posting the response here for anyone who needs clarification for future:

Step 2 requires applicants to demonstrate where they:
1. have responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
2. direct or lead:
a. an individual or team research project or programme of work; or
b. an individual or team innovation project or programme of work

Applicants will only be considered eligible for the academic and research appointments route if their responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development or for directing or leading an individual or team research or innovation project or programme of work is a significant function of the role they have been offered. Under this route the ‘directs or leads’ category is for individuals whose role requires them to act independently in initiating, planning and managing a research or innovation project or programme of work without supervision.

The application was submitted under the ‘academic, research or innovation leadership and development’ category, which is for individuals in leadership roles at a departmental, faculty or
institutional level, i.e. Vice-Chancellor, Head of School, Head of Department, etc. Typical duties may include strategy development and delivery and overseeing the management of staff and
resources.

In reviewing the responsibilities of the appointment and the statement provided by the applicant’s institution the conclusion of the full assessment was that the application and supporting documents did not sufficiently demonstrate that the position to which the applicant has been appointed either (a) has responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or (b) directs or leads an individual or team research or innovation project or programme of work.

I hope this helps. : )

Sae · Post by **Sae** » Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:58 pm

Hi
Does anyone know if you can apply as an associate lecturer (hourly paid academic) or it has to be a full time permanent position?
Thanks

ivis12 · Post by **ivis12** » Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:10 am

I had a post doc offer for a year. I applied through exceptional talent route but they endorsed me through exceptional promise. I have had 14 years industrial experience with patents and publications. So it depends on what type of talent you bring to UK.

Sae · Post by **Sae** » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:28 am

Oh thank you, yes that helps

neutronica · Post by **neutronica** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:00 pm

SD002 wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 pm
For those who are still looking for an answer to this question, I applied as exceptional promise and secured an endorsement from RAE with an offer for a Lecturer position.

One suggestion, I would make is please do add your job description if you are applying in this category. This is one document I didn't add and RAE requested me for this document.

Hi. Congrats on the GTV. Can you kindly share some details about your profile? For example, how long did you spend doing a post-doc after your PhD before becoming a lecturer? Did you have some scholarships or fellowships during PhD or Post-doc? Did you apply for a GTV before joining your lecturer role? Thanks a lot.

olujupiter · Post by **olujupiter** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:50 am

Hi SD002,
Considering the requirement below under fast track and a job offer, do I still need:
b) a statement of guarantee from the Director of Human Resources, or equivalent, which confirms: a to g below. OR is the job offer and job description alone adequate? Thanks in advance.

GTE 8.6. An applicant on the fast track applying under GTE 8.2.(b) must hold an eligible academic or research position at an approved UK Higher Education Institution or Research Institute named on the list published by the Royal Society, the Royal Academy of Engineering and the British Academy and they must provide both:
(a) a job description setting out the duties and responsibilities of the position; and
(b) a statement of guarantee from the Director of Human Resources, or equivalent, which confirms:
(a) the job was advertised and an open competition was held, or where it was not, an explanation as to why; and
(b) the applicant has accepted the job offer; and
(c) the job title and department in which the applicant will be based; and
(d) the applicant:
(a)has responsibility for academic, research or innovation leadership and development; or
(b)will direct or lead an individual or team research project or programme of work; or
(c)will direct or lead an individual or team innovation project or programme of work; and
(e) at least two references were received; and
(f) at least three academic, research or innovation representatives were on the interview panel(s); and
(g)at least one expert in the applicant’s field was on the interview panel(s), or at least one relevant expert, independent of the employing institution, was consulted before the job offer was made.

olujupiter · Post by **olujupiter** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:26 pm

Can anyone please reply asap?

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