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Exercising rights? - EU Directive 2004/38/EC

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Leon Rossouw
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Location: North Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Exercising rights? - EU Directive 2004/38/EC

Post by Leon Rossouw » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:08 pm

I would like to know how to exercise my rights as the spouse of an EU citizen when it comes to entering and residing permanently in France.

My wife is British, but since England forms part of the EU, I should be entitled to the same rights as my wife in terms of entering, freedom of movement and abode in the EU (France in particular), correct?

I would like to know what steps (if any) I need to take before arrival in France, if we intend to stay there permanently.

Any suggestions gladly received!

Dawie
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Post by Dawie » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:32 pm

You have the right to exercise anywhere you want.
In a few years time we'll look back on immigration control like we look back on American prohibition in the thirties - futile and counter-productive.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:50 pm

The first step you need to take is to explain your citizenship, what you and your wife plan to do in France, and for how long.

In general you just need to move there. And then you need to get a job and register with the government. Depends a bit on your citizenship.

baimei
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Exercising my rights on Directive 2004/38/EC failed!

Post by baimei » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:19 pm

I'm British and have a non EU spouse, I submitted an application for a visa to the Belgium embassy, they made me fill in the boxes that I shouldn't have to fill in for dates etc, basically they wanted to know every detail about our movement, personal details, means of support etc etc, I wasn't very happy about this, but gave them anyway, also paid a £22 service charge; two days later I got a call saying the visa was approved, BUT I must show them our non-refundable return tickets to get the visa, at this point I'd had enough of their demands and quoted EU Directive 2004/38/EC, they didn't care and said if I want the visa I must show the tickets, but my trip was only 2 days away, so I was not going to risk buying tickets, I ended up getting the passport sent back to me without a visa, I'm now going to contact the EU commision and write a strong letter to the Embassy, I'm wondering if I can get any compensation for the refusal of a visa just because I don't have a ticket, since they have obviously neglected my rights as an EU citizen!

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:30 pm

You should definitely complain. The Belgian embassy is way out of line. A number of other people have also had problems with them, but I am not sure if they complained and so it has likely not been resolved.

First stop is to contact the EU’s Solvit group. http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/ They are very helpful.

The most important contact at the embassy is
Mr Eric Jacquemin
Head of Consular and Visa Section
Embassy of Belgium
17 Grosvenor Crescent
London SW1X 7EE

In writing to them, keep it polite, simple and professional. Keep photocopies of EVERYTHING you send, and send it by special delivery.

Getting compensation is always a difficult task. It may take you some time and effort to get a response. Probably not worth it financially, but worth it to remind them of their obligations.

Make sure to remind them that Directive 2004/38/EC has “direct effectâ€

brownbonno
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Re: Exercising my rights on Directive 2004/38/EC failed!

Post by brownbonno » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:53 pm

baimei wrote:I'm British and have a non EU spouse, I submitted an application for a visa to the Belgium embassy, they made me fill in the boxes that I shouldn't have to fill in for dates etc, basically they wanted to know every detail about our movement, personal details, means of support etc etc, I wasn't very happy about this, but gave them anyway, also paid a £22 service charge; two days later I got a call saying the visa was approved, BUT I must show them our non-refundable return tickets to get the visa, at this point I'd had enough of their demands and quoted EU Directive 2004/38/EC, they didn't care and said if I want the visa I must show the tickets, but my trip was only 2 days away, so I was not going to risk buying tickets, I ended up getting the passport sent back to me without a visa, I'm now going to contact the EU commision and write a strong letter to the Embassy, I'm wondering if I can get any compensation for the refusal of a visa just because I don't have a ticket, since they have obviously neglected my rights as an EU citizen!
You can actually request the service charge fee back,but compensation depends on the actual loss incurred as a result of the breach.
You can use the national legal redress instances for the cliams(small claim courts).
To take this case a step further,can you provide more information-
1.is the non EU legally resident in the UK ?
2.Did the EU citizen specify that he/she is a spouse to the non EU?
3.Was proof of relationship available to the embassy ?
4.Was there any written conrespondence from the Embassy on reasons of refusal ?
5.What economic loss did you incur as a result of the visa refusal.
Contacting the SOLVIT is usually good,but there is nothing much they can do than collection of information for the EU commission.
Knowledge is Power

baimei
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Post by baimei » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:55 am

My wife is legally resident in the UK, she has 9 months left on her 2 year marriage visa, she filled in the application form as a spouse and I accompanied her to the application centre where they asked for letters from her employer etc etc, even though I gave them a copy of our marriage certificate and joint bank statements.

After I received a call telling me to purchase tickets before I could get the visa, I tried to contact the Embassy by phone and Email but it was impossible to speak to anyone, in the end I sent an Email to the Ambassador's secretary about infringements of EU directives, I then received a call from a lady in the visa section, I told her I was not going to purchase tickets as this is an infringement of my rights as an EU citizen, I also did not want to risk not getting the passport back in time for my trip due to the current postal issues, she told me that the embassy has its own laws on giving out visa's and it would be impossible for her to supply me with a visa before I showed her my tickets, she also said that the embassy wanted to prevent people from travelling to other countries, so this was the reason why tickets had to be shown.

As she refused to give me a visa without a ticket, I told her to return the passport, but warned her that I would be writing to the EU commission to complain that they had broken the law, I hoped that she would listen and give me a visa, unfortunately I just got the passport back, so I have no written correspondence from them.

The losses would be my trip to london, car parking and congestion charges, the visa fee and a lost holiday due to no visa.

Leon Rossouw
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Post by Leon Rossouw » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:42 am

Success at last!

I have been from pillar to post, trying to get the information I needed from the French Consular office in Montreal. In desperation I started contacting other French Consular offices like Toronto, the High Commission in Ottawa, even the the Consular office in London. I also sent emails to anyone I could think of that might be able to shed some light.

Eventually I got an email back from EUROPE DIRECT (http://ec.europa.eu/europedirect/)

This was their exact response:
"In response to your inquiry, we are pleased to inform you that family members, irrespective of their nationality, have the right to accompany and establish themselves with a European Union citizen on the territory of the Member States of the European Union. Family members who can enjoy rights under Community law include the spouse, minor (under 21) or dependent children, and dependent ascendants, though in the case of students only the spouse and dependent children enjoy this right.

When entering a territory of a Member State Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. Say to consult the Annex I of 539/2001
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/doc_ce ... l/visa/doc_
freetravel_visa_en.htm

Members of the family must provide proof of identity and of the family link to an EU citizen.

Information on the conditions and administrative formalities for applying EU citizens' right to move and reside freely throughout the European Union can be found on the following web sites of Directorate-General Freedom, Security and Justice of the European Commission:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/ci ... itizenship
_movement_en.htm

The travelling rights of the non-EU citizens are available on the web site of the Directorate-General (DG) for Justice, Freedom and Security at the following address:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/fr ... freetravel
_thirdcountry_en.htm


Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit for family members of Union citizens. These permits are valid for at least five years from their date of issue.

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... /eu-guide/
living/index_en.html#11324_4


Further information on the right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States can be found at the following web site of the "Summaries of legislation – Activities of the European Union" database:

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33152.htm


For further specific questions you can contact Directorate-General Freedom, Security and Justice directly:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/contact_us2_en.htm


For further country specific information you can contact the national authorities of France:

http://europa.eu/abc/european_countries ... ance/index_
en.htm


We would also like to inform you that a service called the Signpost Service is also available to you if you feel you are facing difficulties in exercising your rights in the European Union and the Single Market. The legal experts of the Signpost Service will research your question and within 6-8 days advise you further in your own language, by phone or by e-mail as required. Please contact EUROPE DIRECT for further information.

We hope that this information will be of use to you.

With kind regards,

EUROPE DIRECT"


After reading this email and following the links, I really paid a lot of attention to the exact wording in the 2004/38/EC Directive. It clearly states that I (the citizen of a third - or foreign country to the EU, regardless of nationality) have the right to move to and reside freely anywhere within the EU, as long as I have family ties to an EU citizen.

The only other requirements are that I need to have a valid passport and an entry visa. But, because of these rights, the entry visa only serves as a formality, and should be processed by whichever consular section I was dealing with on an accelerated procedure, be free of charge and that no other documentation other than my valid passport, marriage certificate to my EU wife and a copy of her EU passport would be required.
Not only was it my right to have the entry visa processed at a priority level and free of charge, but even if I showed up at the EU borders demanding entry without a valid entry visa, that I could not be turned back simply for lacking such an administrative formality such as an entry visa, when my rights as the spouse of an EU citizen granted me that right of entry if I could prove that I was tied to an EU citizen and that I was in fact covered by the 2004/38/EC Directive.

I contacted the Consular office in Toronto as they were actually willing to give me some information, and quoted these rights according to the Directive to them. After a short hold they came back to me and said that I was absolutely correct and as stated above cannot be denied entry or asked for any other information such as bank statements, travel tickets or anything, other than my valid passport, marriage certificate to EU spouse and copy of EU spouse's valid passport in order to get my "formality" entry visa into any member state of the EU.

To conclude, I want to apologize for the long winded post, but I wanted to share as much information as possible with anyone finding themselves in a similar situation.

Hope this helps you as much as it has helped me.

Au revoir and bonne chance!

L.

brownbonno
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Post by brownbonno » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:16 am

baimei wrote:My wife is legally resident in the UK, she has 9 months left on her 2 year marriage visa, she filled in the application form as a spouse and I accompanied her to the application centre where they asked for letters from her employer etc etc, even though I gave them a copy of our marriage certificate and joint bank statements.

After I received a call telling me to purchase tickets before I could get the visa, I tried to contact the Embassy by phone and Email but it was impossible to speak to anyone, in the end I sent an Email to the Ambassador's secretary about infringements of EU directives, I then received a call from a lady in the visa section, I told her I was not going to purchase tickets as this is an infringement of my rights as an EU citizen, I also did not want to risk not getting the passport back in time for my trip due to the current postal issues, she told me that the embassy has its own laws on giving out visa's and it would be impossible for her to supply me with a visa before I showed her my tickets, she also said that the embassy wanted to prevent people from travelling to other countries, so this was the reason why tickets had to be shown.

As she refused to give me a visa without a ticket, I told her to return the passport, but warned her that I would be writing to the EU commission to complain that they had broken the law, I hoped that she would listen and give me a visa, unfortunately I just got the passport back, so I have no written correspondence from them.

The losses would be my trip to london, car parking and congestion charges, the visa fee and a lost holiday due to no visa.
I am sure you can push the case further as earlier advised.See PM.
Knowledge is Power

johnsienk
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Post by johnsienk » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:51 am

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johnsienk
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Post by johnsienk » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:57 am

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globalfr
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Post by globalfr » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:33 pm

I would like to know if the non-EU family members who are permanent resident in one of the member states have the right of freedom of movement? Do they have to be accompanied by their EU familly member?

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