Fresh claim

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Sat May 08, 2010 10:53 am

Hi everyone,

When a EEA2 application is rejected, what is the procedure to make a fresh new EEA2 claim ? Does one simply ignore the "We will remove you" appearing on the negative response from the Home Office and simply submits a new application as if nothing happened ?

If so, why such procedure does not appear on the response from the Home Office? That is, why don't they say "We will remove you, except if you make a new claim which you have right to do so" ?

Secondly, what is the logic in the right for anyone to make any number of new claims, all rejected by the Home Office for the same reason?

Post by **John** » Sat May 08, 2010 2:54 pm

It might help to understand your circumstances if you explain the reason for rejection.

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Sat May 08, 2010 3:22 pm

Hi,

The reason is that the EEA husband (me!) cannot yet establish his new self-employed status through evidence such as invoices. Prefering to avoid a failed appeal leading to tougher and faster examination of further new claims, I decided to make a fresh claim. But how to do that ?

Post by **John** » Sat May 08, 2010 3:53 pm

How long have you, the EEA husband, been living in the UK? Also what is the nature of your self-employment? That is, what is the type of business?

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Sat May 08, 2010 6:33 pm

Hi John : We've been living in UK for 2 years and it's a web/print design self-employment.

My reasoning is that a new claim would give me lots of time (the normal 6 months minimum delay for any application) to get many invoices to present as proof. But if we appeal and fail then any further claim will be quickly examined and rejected, at least that's what I understand..

Post by **John** » Sat May 08, 2010 9:09 pm

So you were previously employed? And now you are self-employed? How long ago did your last employment cease? And how long ago did the self-employment start?

Also, how many invoices have you actually issued to customers?

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Sat May 08, 2010 10:24 pm

John : no, I've been seeking employment for the first year to no avail, then I spent the second year training myself in web design.

I registered as self-employed on november 2009, but issued only one invoice so far.

I believe that the people on the appeal hearing won't take my self-employment too seriously, and by playing for time with a fresh claim I hope to secure many invoices that I may present if necessary.

What do you think ?

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Sun May 09, 2010 8:39 pm

Anyone, please advise.

Post by **John** » Sun May 09, 2010 9:07 pm

In the absence of much income since you arrived in the UK, how have you been surviving financially?

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Sun May 09, 2010 10:18 pm

Housing benefits, my wife's part-time employment and savings.

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Mon May 10, 2010 1:17 pm

Help

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Mon May 10, 2010 10:35 pm

Anyone ... ?

John, you asked me all these questions for nothing ?

Post by **John** » Tue May 11, 2010 7:30 am

I think the problem is showing how you are exercising EU Treaty Rights. You are having problems showing that you are self-employed, and a fallback position of being Self-Sufficient is blown out of the water by the benefit claim.

So I suggest this. If you really do have skills as a website designer, try to become employed in that capacity, or if you don't want to do that, make your self-employment really work, or if you can't do that, get a job .... doing anything!

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Tue May 11, 2010 9:05 am

The problem is I can't be employed anymore because of my health, so make my design self-employment really work is definitely what I want to do (and I think it will be easy because I prepared myself very well in that regard)

But because this will take a number of months, perhaps 6 or more, what should I do right now with the Home Office, appeal or new claim ? Or something else ?

Post by **John** » Tue May 11, 2010 9:29 am

You will no doubt appreciate that I didn't make the rules, so don't shoot the messenger, but unless you can show that you are exercising Treaty Rights in the UK, your family member is not entitled to a Residence Card.

Why is it taking so long for your business to become established? How are you advertising the existence of the business?

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Tue May 11, 2010 11:50 am

Hi John, my business is slow to become established because I've been training myself a lot and I wasted time with a client who finally withdrew. I plan to start advertising very shortly.

Sorry to have appeared rude to you, but please could you tell me if making a new claim is a good idea or not ? What would you do right now with the Home Office if you were me ?

Post by **John** » Tue May 11, 2010 2:50 pm

My reaction to what you have posted is this. That is, I am not surprised the previous application failed.

Come on, what sort of business is it that does not make its presence in the marketplace known to its possible customers or clients? The advertising does not necessarily need to be extensive or expensive but there needs to be advertising to make it a real business.

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Tue May 11, 2010 4:20 pm

I could not advertise when there was nothing to advertise : no expertise, no portfolio, no brand, not even a business name.

Thank you John for asking me so many questions only to tell me at the end what I should have done in the past instead of helping me by advising me what I can do now..

There is only a few days before the hearing, so if anybody can advise me on going to appeal vs. making a new claim, please go ahead !!!!!!

Post by **John** » Tue May 11, 2010 4:56 pm

Losing the appeal, if that happens, does not stop you making another application.

But you really do want the business to sound credible you really need to start advertising, even if that advertising is in free-to-advertise online publications.

The rather harsh view is that your business has not yet started, and you are merely putting yourself in a position of being able to start the business.

Have you registered the existence of the business with HMRC? Started paying Class 2 NICs?

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Tue May 11, 2010 5:11 pm

John : yes I'm registered as self-employed with HMRC (but my business is not, I don't have a number for my business, I have not even been asked what is the name of my business) and have a Class 2 exemption certificate. However the HMRC told me that this registration proves nothing except that I registered (in itself it doesn't make me a self-employed person)

I've been told that when one goes to appeal and fails, things become difficult and harsh afterwards. Rejections are much faster for example, whereas if one simply makes a new claim things are just normal.

John will you tell me what I do now, appeal or new claim ? Please advise me on that.

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:31 am

Help, help, help ..

Post by **John** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:48 am

I've been told that when one goes to appeal and fails, things become difficult and harsh afterwards. Rejections are much faster for example, whereas if one simply makes a new claim things are just normal.

Told by who?

The fact is that until it is clear that you are exercising EU Treaty Rights in the UK your spouse will continue to have problems getting a Residence Card. So you need to solve the main problem!

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Wed May 12, 2010 8:05 am

A sollicitor told me that. Is it inaccurate ?

I am working full-time on my business, which is what enables me to say that I will start advertising very shortly.

Is it best for me to (A) go to appeal or (B) to make a new claim instead ?

Just say A or B, please..

Post by **John** » Wed May 12, 2010 8:15 am

A sollicitor told me that. Is it inaccurate ?

Well it is inaccurate, in the sense that if at one point in time you are not able to show that you are exercising EU Treaty Rights, so application(s) get rejected .... and then later it is clear that you are exercising EU Treaty Rights, there is no reason why the Residence Card cannot then be issued to your family member.

Remember we are not talking about a visa application here. We are talking about an application under the terms of the EU Directive.

Why are you still not advertising? Strong suggestion .... place an advert within an hour ..... suggest you start with say Gumtree .... a free advert!

A or B? Totally up to you, but if I were you I would go A, and if that fails, then B.

gilbutre · Post by **gilbutre** » Thu May 13, 2010 7:43 am

Thank you for your advice on advertising, I will follow it.

Regarding applications from someone who does not exert EU treaty rights, yes they all get rejected anyway, but after a lost appeal they are rejected faster. This is what my sollicitor told us. Why would he say that if it's no true ?

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Fresh claim

Fresh claim