Anyone had their ILR rejected for time spent outside UK?

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:28 pm

I am sorry to hear this Raniwza. You say you have lodged the case with a lawyer. Is this your appeal ?

raniwza · Post by **raniwza** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:20 am

Thanks William Blake for your respond.

I am not sure yet. The lawyers have sent a letter requesting the caseworker to exercise his/her discretionary right for my case on the 24th August 2007. But I am really worried over the outcome.

A close family friend has advised me to approach the Member of Parliament in my constituency to ask for a support letter but I will have to talk to my lawyer first today to ask for his advice.

I have been waiting for 10 years for this and all my dreams are now shattered. I have progressed throughout my years of stay in the UK, from A-levels, to degree, to Master's degree and to ACCA. I even managed to accumulate some experiences in the UK and followed all the rules. Although my contributions are not appreciated.

What can I do William Blake? Why is it so difficult to be a part of UK? All I want to do is work and never minded to pay taxes. But now, I cannot even pay up my personal loans in time and if I go back to my home country, I have to leave all of my debts because with the salary back home, it is not enough to honour my commitments to UK debts. Would it be my fault? Surely, after 10 years Home Office should know that the commitments that one may have to survive the costs of living and how the country can lose due to bad debts? All I want to do is pay up the loans at least whilst working - the low wage back home would not be able to cover my monthly commitnents-credit cards-student overdrafts etc. I find myself easier to get a job without the need for work permit sponsorship therefore the PR status is really important.

I am very very sad

raniwza · Post by **raniwza** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:23 am

Sorry I forgot to answer your question. No, according to the letter I received, I do not have the right of appeal because I still have my current visa active which will expire this 30 October 2007.

How come I have never heard of this before? That you don't have the right to appeal if you still have your current leave to remain? However, I rang the Home Office and I was advised that I can produce a letter to explain the gap. But to be safe, I asked the lawyer to help me out.

Help

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:26 am

Hmmm....great argument. "I should be allowed to stay in the UK because I have debts to pay off...that's right. I'm an international student with loans in the UK...can I stay? If not, your banks will lose out."

That might actually work.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:10 am

sakura wrote:Hmmm....great argument. "I should be allowed to stay in the UK because I have debts to pay off...that's right. I'm an international student with loans in the UK...can I stay? If not, your banks will lose out."

That might actually work.

I don't think that is a bad argument. But you took the absurd point of view, clearly he planned to be reside continously in the UK to finish his degree.

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:50 am

SYH wrote:
sakura wrote:Hmmm....great argument. "I should be allowed to stay in the UK because I have debts to pay off...that's right. I'm an international student with loans in the UK...can I stay? If not, your banks will lose out."

That might actually work.
I don't think that is a bad argument. But you took the absurd point of view, clearly he planned to be reside continously in the UK to finish his degree.

It's not absurd. It depends on what types of debts he is referring to (bank loans and credit cards, or other types of debt), but the way he wrote it was "I want to stay so that I can work and pay off my debts", which is why he wrote the UK would lose if he left. Is it possible to stay in the UK based on loans and debts (anyone know)? That plus, do international students get access to such loans?
See my point? Using financial commitments to maintain one's presence....(well, is that possible?)

raniwza- it is not difficult to be part of the UK. It's unfortunate that there was no senior caseworker when you applied for ILR in-person, but that doesn't mean the country is trying to kick you out. The only thing you can do now is wait, if you can't appeal.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:40 pm

raniwza wrote:I have applied for ILR under 10 years category and I

Victoria, what are my chances to get the ILR after the lawyer sending the letter last week? Will they take a long time to decide? This is because I have a wedding in Malaysia to attend this October and my student visa expires at the end of October. Should I extend my visa because I am resitting one paper?

Help

I am loathe to comment on specific cases that I have not seen, and that other firms are delaing with. Sorry.

Victoria

raniwza · Post by **raniwza** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:47 pm

Ha ha ha

You guys really keep me sane. At time like this something like this really helps:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sakura wrote:
Hmmm....great argument. "I should be allowed to stay in the UK because I have debts to pay off...that's right. I'm an international student with loans in the UK...can I stay? If not, your banks will lose out."

That might actually work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is great! Well, I didn't put anything on loan commitments as one of the arguments-didn't even mention it to my lawyer but should I? I mean if everyone ie like the ones on work permit not granted further work extension or permanent residence; already taken out loans; then Home Office would have to grant stay to everyone I suppose - that is why i didn't add this - but it is my true purpose of stay - i don't want any trouble with god - my creator

But if the opportunity to pay back/settle is not there - should I be blamed?

I mean i even paid the whole Â£750 for the application and willing to work to pay that back if granted to stay and work! Not to meantion lawyer fees!

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:39 pm

what the blazes is going on man. No right of appeal if visa is still valid. What!? Is that a fact ? Can someone more informed please confirm. Is this for real?

Then Ranizwa is right they are trying to bloody well kick us out. Its like evry little thing to look at to try and make it difficult for you. What next donate blood ?!

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:41 pm

raniwza- it is not difficult to be part of the UK. It's unfortunate that there was no senior caseworker when you applied for ILR in-person, but that doesn't mean the country is trying to kick you out. The only thing you can do now is wait, if you can't appeal.

Do we have basis for confidence in senioir caseworkers?[/quote]

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:42 pm

Duh! stupid quote marks

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:04 pm

My wife was refused ILR in the UK because she was out of the country for 19 months out of the 2 years for personal and business reasons.

Also, no offer of further leave to remain was offered and she was informed she should leave the UK at the3 end of her 2 years LLR (April 2007) or she would be forcibly removed!

She is now back in China whilst I am in the UK.

They also said that we do not have a genuine marriage which is complete and utter GARBAGE!!!

So sad limey. What ar you doing about it?

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:17 pm

How come I have never heard of this before? That you don't have the right to appeal if you still have your current leave to remain? However, I rang the Home Office and I was advised that I can produce a letter to explain the gap. But to be safe, I asked the lawyer to help me out.

I say at the outset I mean no discouragement whatsoever.

I don't understand this though guys. If her (Ranizwa - I think she is a she - I need to check this ) application has been decided then under what 'authority' for want of a better word can she provide letters to explain the gap and ask the caseworker to apply discretion and alter the decision?

raniwza · Post by **raniwza** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:16 am

Well like the arguments set forward by the lawyers;

At the time of that 16 days gap, I was in Malaysia due to family illness, the British embassy refused to accept any visa application due to September 11 attack (they closed for 1 year i think), and the system at the time,people obtain or extend visa upon entry at the UK airport. Plus, I had the obligation to the UK university hence I had my final year to finish therefore the intention to come back to UK and continue studies. Plus I had a scholarship contract that I had to honour therefore complete my degree in the UK (continue final year).

If they still refuse, i really starting to lose faith in the UK system. Especially after 10 years commitment, how come 16 days can become an issue? They know i can contribute to the society through pay taxes etc. from my qualifications and managed to get various jobs before legally in the UK (temporary contracts). After all, I have been open and honest.

I know this is a grant, and my future is decided by discretionary of the caseworker - we do realise how much power the caseworkers can have to decide our livelihood? Yet despite the inconsistencies on the outcomes, the caseworkers are assumed to be right.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:42 pm

William Blake wrote:what the blazes is going on man. No right of appeal if visa is still valid. What!? Is that a fact ? Can someone more informed please confirm. Is this for real?

Then Ranizwa is right they are trying to bloody well kick us out. Its like evry little thing to look at to try and make it difficult for you. What next donate blood ?!

This is a fact and you can check it in the rules. The only time you can appeal is when your leave has run out. So long as you have a valid LTR, you can write a letter for Reconsideration based on your arguments and other factors which the case worker would have missed and also any evidence which you would have.

You are entitled to a right of appeal when your leave expires when your case was under consideration and was refused. Then you have the right of appeal and section 3C kicks in.

What you can do now is to write to the Senior Case Worker of that Department or The Deputy Director of the Directorate for Reconsideration.

If you do not do this before your visa expires then you would have to leave the country (since you would be illegal). Assuming the circumstances which led to the stopping of your clock when you went home had not been met, then you would have to apply for another LTR under another category until such time as your 10-year clock is achieved.

What you can do now:
1. Your lawyer has done the right thing by Applying for reconsideration (not an appeal) and if that is refused

2. Apply for another category of stay or appeal the decision above (assuming your LTR expires during that process).

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:03 pm

Very good advice guys. Its nice to see people trying to help one another out.

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:31 pm

Very good advice guys. Its nice to see people trying to help one another out.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:17 pm

jes2jes wrote:This is a fact and you can check it in the rules. The only time you can appeal is when your leave has run out. So long as you have a valid LTR, you can write a letter for Reconsideration based on your arguments and other factors which the case worker would have missed and also any evidence which you would have.

That's not quite right in law. Under the Nationality Immigration and Asylum Act 2002, s. 81(1) (as amended), "Where an immigration decision is made in respect of a person he may appeal to an Immigration Judge".

An "Immigration Decision" is defined in the Act under s.82(2):

In this Part "immigration decision" means-

(a) refusal of leave to enter the United Kingdom,

(b) refusal of entry clearance,

(c) refusal of a certificate of entitlement under section 10 of this Act,

(d) refusal to vary a person's leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom if the result of the refusal is that the person has no leave to enter or remain,

(e) variation of a person's leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom if when the variation takes effect the person has no leave to enter or remain,

(f) revocation under section 76 of this Act of indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom,

(g) a decision that a person is to be removed from the United Kingdom by way of directions under section 10(1)(a), (b) or (c) of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 (c. 33) (removal of person unlawfully in United Kingdom),

[amended by the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006]

(h) a decision that an illegal entrant is to be removed from the United Kingdom by way of directions under paragraphs 8 to 10 of Schedule 2 to the Immigration Act 1971 (c. 77) (control of entry: removal),

(ha) a decision that a person is to be removed from the United Kingdom by way of directions under section 47 of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006 (removal: persons with statutorily extended leave),

[inserted by the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006]

(i) a decision that a person is to be removed from the United Kingdom by way of directions given by virtue of paragraph 10A of that Schedule (family),

(ia) a decision that a person is to be removed from the United Kingdom by way of directions under paragraph 12(2) of Schedule 2 to the Immigration Act 1971 (c. 77) (seamen and aircrews),

[inserted by the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004]

(ib) a decision to make an order under section 2A of that Act (deprivation of right of abode),

[inserted by the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006]

(j) a decision to make a deportation order under section 5(1) of that Act, and

(k) refusal to revoke a deportation order under section 5(2) of that Act.

Under the same Act, s.84, an appeal can be made on certain grounds:

(1) An appeal under [02-82] section 82(1) against an immigration decision must be brought on one or more of the following grounds-

(a) that the decision is not in accordance with immigration rules;

(b) that the decision is unlawful by virtue of section 19B of the Race Relations Act 1976 (c. 74) (discrimination by public authorities);

(c) that the decision is unlawful under section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42) (public authority not to act contrary to Human Rights Convention) as being incompatible with the appellant's Convention rights;

(d) that the appellant is an EEA national or a member of the family of an EEA national and the decision breaches the appellant's rights under the Community Treaties in respect of entry to or residence in the United Kingdom;

(e) that the decision is otherwise not in accordance with the law;

(f) that the person taking the decision should have exercised differently a discretion conferred by immigration rules;

(g) that removal of the appellant from the United Kingdom in consequence of the immigration decision would breach the United Kingdom's obligations under the Refugee Convention or would be unlawful under section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 as being incompatible with the appellant's Convention rights.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:02 am

What you posted is true but all the points you posted does not apply to the OP since:

(d) refusal to vary a person's leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom if the result of the refusal is that the person has no leave to enter or remain,

which the OP does have and I explained although I did not quote any of the rules.

Thanks for the rules but s1 I believe can be argued in light of the Law that it does not apply to the OP.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:59 am

It worried me, though, that your statement, "The only time you can appeal is when your leave has run out" might be taken by other people to apply to their cases, so it was important to have the full context.

raniwza · Post by **raniwza** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:51 am

Thanks so much for enlighten me on this matter. So much help-i m so grateful!

I have a wedding that I cannot miss this October therefore have already booked a flight to go back to Malaysia on the 11th.

My current leave to remain will expire on the 31st October hence I can only apply for extension 28 days before ie 3rd October to resit my one paper. I have already found out that the British Embassy in Malaysia would not grant an extension for somebody only resitting one ACCA paper. But UK Home Office would extend a visa to 1 year (as experienced by a friend last year on the same situation). Therefore, I need to extend my visa here in the UK.

My current dilemma is if, I extend my visa, would my reconsiderations letters by lawyers for the permanent residence still stands (meaning will I still have chance for the PR status) or will I need to reapply again when the new extension of student visa expires? The PR application already costs me a lot of money.

Another dilemma is, if I apply through post on the 3rd October, can I get my passports back to fly back to Malaysia before the 11th October? The post costs Â£295.00. Or do I need to go for 1 day processing? Will that not cost me Â£500.00? After all, my exam will be in December 2007 and the results will come out in February 2008. Will I get one year or 6 months extension? A friend sent hers in post and got 1 year extension but mine? I don't really know.

Any advices? Please?

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:21 am

avjones wrote:It worried me, though, that your statement, "The only time you can appeal is when your leave has run out" might be taken by other people to apply to their cases, so it was important to have the full context.

Thanks for this and it was not my intention to make other users misinterperet my writing.

Glad you posted what I was really lazy to provide.

Appreciated Amanda.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:40 am

My pleasure.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:44 am

I have a wedding that I cannot miss this October therefore have already booked a flight to go back to Malaysia on the 11th.

Make sure you would return before your visa expires but I would not make travel plans if my immigrational issue is not sorted yet.

My current leave to remain will expire on the 31st October hence I can only apply for extension 28 days before ie 3rd October to resit my one paper. I have already found out that the British Embassy in Malaysia would not grant an extension for somebody only resitting one ACCA paper. But UK Home Office would extend a visa to 1 year (as experienced by a friend last year on the same situation). Therefore, I need to extend my visa here in the UK.

Is this the only paper left to write or there are more? You can apply for extension but I doubt you would be given 1 year LTR to resit a paper.

My current dilemma is if, I extend my visa, would my reconsiderations letters by lawyers for the permanent residence still stands (meaning will I still have chance for the PR status) or will I need to reapply again when the new extension of student visa expires? The PR application already costs me a lot of money.

I think you should wait unitl you hear from the BIA concerning your representation before you make another application. I believe your passport is still with them. If by the end of October, you had not heard anything then you can make another application for FLTR before the expiration of your current leave to avoid being an overstayer.

Another dilemma is, if I apply through post on the 3rd October, can I get my passports back to fly back to Malaysia before the 11th October? The post costs Â£295.00. Or do I need to go for 1 day processing? Will that not cost me Â£500.00? After all, my exam will be in December 2007 and the results will come out in February 2008. Will I get one year or 6 months extension? A friend sent hers in post and got 1 year extension but mine? I don't really know.

There is no guarantee when it comes to postal application as to processing times but they mostly make a decision within 4 weeks. You can go for same day processing and pay the fee for that.

My advise (this is just my advise and you do not need to heed to it

) is to put the wedding plans on hold until such time that you have heard about the decision concerning the reconsideration. Did you send your passport with the letters your lawyer wrote? If not, when they decide to grant you ILR based on your lawyer's representation, there would be more delays since you would have to mail the passport to them for them to stamp it and will delay your flying to Malaysia.

If your representation is refused then go ahead and make an application to vary your current LTR to write your exams and then you can fly but it is possible you would miss your flight to the wedding. My fear is that, when you go and your return, you do not meet a very reasonable IO, they can deny you entry based on technicalities (i.e. the resit of the paper can be done anywhere in the world).

Can you post the exact dates for your entry into the country and any holidays you had had within the 10 years? From this, we can deduce when you can apply for your ILR in light of your gap.

raniwza · Post by **raniwza** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:46 am

Thanks Jes2jes for the advice.

I am afraid my mother in law has sent out all of the invitations out - meaning I cannot escape the wedding the family has organised. I am so stucked!

A friend managed to get a 1 year extension visa after posting her application (She was resitting one paper last year). However, she did say, she could not extend her visa at the embassy in Malaysia so she managed to get herself back to UK after on holiday before her visa expired (14 days before her visa expired). The officer at the airport advised her to extend her visa when she gets into UK. Will I be denied entry into UK at Heathrow airport if I leave it to 7 days before my visa expired? I have the college letter and proof of payment/enrollment exactly she had now. Will these help me get in and get the visa extension sorted out in post? Or should I hurry applying for one day processing this 3rd October?

Help

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Anyone had their ILR rejected for time spent outside UK?

Re: Help