Citizens of Bulgaria and Romania .... from 01.01.07

[John]

Lots of information now available ... by clicking here. And the links on that webpage contain even more information.

In view of the importance of this, I am making this a sticky.

[sirenewno]

My Romanian boyfriend recently came to Britain to stay with me as long as possible until we can sort out a way for him to work - this was after a three year wait and some discomfort at Passport control and we were thrilled - until we read the document they gave us, featured in the linnk you give. It states at the outset that Romanians and Bulgarians have the right to free movement and to remain and reside legally in the UK. However, on another paragraph, a time limit of three months appears. Surely this cannot be right? I would appreciate some comments. If I am willing to support him - even if this means waiting until the "transitional" arrangements are altered - why should there be any problem, I wonder.

[John]

Sirenewno, what is your boyfriend intending to do in the UK? Study? Become Self-Employed?

[sirenewno]

He is intending to become self-employed, work here and live with me and we have asked for the forms for this to be sent from the Inland Revenue - however, if this fails (I have little faith in the legal routes to working in the UK because of past experience) I don't want to find suddenly that he has to leave after three months.

[John]

Under the terms of the accession treaty he is certainly entitled to remain in the UK for more than 3 months ... to exercise his Treaty Right to be self-employed.

Also under the terms of EU legislation, the definition of self-employment includes not just him being the sole proprietor of a business, but also the sole shareholder and sole director of a Limited Company that he has set up.

[sirenewno]

Before Romania was in the EU he would have to have had £500,000 to set up his own business in Britain (can you believe?!), although there was another EEA business visa that he could have obtained with around £3000 start up costs, although I know of various people for which this was refused - in one instance because a parent had provided the funding. (I dread to think what would happen in Britain if everyone had to have this amount of money to set up something - the enterprise allowance hardly reflects costs of this nature) Has that all disappeared?
Assuming that he registers himself as self-employed, does he then have to apply for leave to remain - exercising this right?
Sorry if all this sounds a bit basic - but the forms are really not very clear -to me anyway!

[John]

There are a number of documents worth reading :-

• Rights and Responsibilities of Nationals from Bulgaria and Romania from 1 January 2007
• Living and working in the UK
• Questions and answers on living and working in the UK

From the first of those :-

If you are exercising a Treaty right, you are not required to obtain a document confirming this, but you are entitled to a registration certificate confirming your status if you wish. Applications can be made on form BR1, or in the case of the highly skilled, on form BR2.

And being Self-Employed is exercising a Treaty Right. Accordingly it is not compulsory for a Registration Certificate to be applied for, but I am going to say that it might be very helpful to apply, given that it confirms that the holder is legally entitled to work in the way that they are working.

Also the person must not overlook the need to register their Self-Employment with the tax authorities. Exactly what they will need to do will depend upon whether they are a sole proprietor of a business, or operating through a Limited Company.

Registration with HMRC ... Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs ... is not voluntary!

[BadPaul]

What about the romanians who work legally in the UK? Do they have to do anything?

What if a Romanian legally working in the UK wants to switch from WP to HSMP? What forms should that person use?

[John]

Before you consider going down the HSMP route, is it the case that :-

you have completed, on or after 31 December 2006, 12 months continuous lawful employment in the United Kingdom

In other words, how long have you been legally working in the UK on your WP?

[BadPaul]

4 years and 3 months ) I would have qualified for ILR at 4 years in September if the government wouldn't have changed the rules increasing the qualifying period to 5 years.

Basically according to these new rules for Romanians and Bulgarians, I can apply for a registration card giving me unrestricted access to UK labour market.

what I couldn't find out anywhere in the guidelines is the answer to the following questions:

- does this registration card allow me to set-up a business in the UK?
- will my time spent in the UK on the registration card count towards my ILR? In other words, when applying for ILR at 5 years, can I amalgamate time spent in the UK on WP and registration card?

Do you know how can I find out the answers to my questions?

Thanks,

Paul

[John]

Can you become self-employed? Yes, now permitted, and as stated above, a Registration Card is recommended but not essential.

However! If you become self-employed you will be exercising your Treaty Rights in the UK. In other words you will have switched to the EU/EEA route, and the bad news is that your ILR clock will be reset.

Up to 29.04.06 it was the case that time spent legally working in the UK by an A8 national prior to their A8 country joining the EU/EEA on 01.05.04 could count towards the 4 or 5 year clock .... even if the person switched to the EU/EEA on or after 01.05.04. However the EU regulations changed on 30.04.06 and from that date, and you could argue retrospectively, they could take account only of time on the EU/EEA route, and not the previous time in the UK on, for example, a WP.

So I think it is clear BadPaul, if you do start exercising your Treaty Rights that you have newly acquired you cannot take account of the earlier time on a WP, in order to get to the 5 year mark.

Accordingly you might be minded to wait until September before making your move.

[BadPaul]

John,

Thank you very much for the detailed response.

Do you have a link to the EU regulations that changed on 30.04.06?

My problem is that I want to start up a business in the UK and the HSMP route seems to be closed for Romanians.

If I apply for HSMP now, my understanding is that HO will issue me a registration certificate (provided I score sufficient points under the HSMP), confirming I am not subject to employment restrictions. That means I have exercised my treaty rights in the UK and the clock for ILR will be reset.

Can I do something to keep the clock ticking but also be able to set-up and run a business?

BR,

Paul

[Iyla]

Hi, I am a uk born resident and my friend has come to study part time in the UK. We want to set up a business together but are having trouble. I have notified the inland revenue that she is self employed, however when I come to set up a limited company with both of us as directors on a 50 / 50 basis I am asked for her national insurance number... I then have written requesting a insurance number and they say she is not eligable. I can't figure out what the process is that we need to go through and how we can sort it out. ... please can you offer some advice?

[John]

I then have written requesting a insurance number and they say she is not eligable.

In that case, they are wrong. She is fully entitled to be self-employed, and accordingly is under a duty to pay National Insurance contributions.

However, what is the problem? From the tax and national insurance point of view being a Company Director is being employed, not allowed for Bulgarians without permission. However in accordance with EU legislation setting up your own business, even through the auspices of a Limited Company, is Self-Employment, and thus allowed.

When you try to form the company, who is it who is asking you for her National Insurance number?

[SusieQ]

My partner and I plan for him to come and join me live and work in the UK. We are both from Bgr and I already have ILR.

To work legally here does he have to be self-employed ? He hasn't decided yet as to what he wants to work - a driver/ painter/ fitting laminate floors/plumbing etc. Does he have to register with HMRC straight away or is he allowed for some 'trial period' before he settles on one business idea? And any simple explanations of the Construction Industry Scheme? Does he have to be part of it if he's only a self employed laminate fitter/painter?

Also in the case of marriage, will he automatically get my rights although he is new in the country?

Thanks

[residents]

Hello
Does anyone know if there are any legal requirements for the Home Office in regards to the maximum amount of time they can work on an application?
To be more exact, I have applied for ILR and it would be interesting to know if they HAVE to give an answer within a determined period of time.

Thanks very much.

[Kiril_e]

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF
Article 19
Document certifying permanent residence for Union citizens
1. Upon application Member States shall issue Union citizens entitled to permanent residence,
after having verified duration of residence, with a document certifying permanent residence.
2. The document certifying permanent residence shall be issued as soon as possible.

[Kiril_e]

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary

DEVELOPMENTS RESULTING FROM ACCESSION
Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU on 1 January 2007. Bulgarian and Romanian nationals may exercise their treaty right of self-employment and so do not need grants of leave under ECAA. The Agreements in any case lapsed upon accession. We have therefore deleted the immigration rules relating to leave to enter and limited leave to remain under ECAA, but we have retained those for indefinite leave to remain, to allow people who have been granted leave under ECAA to achieve settlement under domestic law should they wish to apply for it. They will otherwise be eligible for permanent residence under EU law if they exercise treaty rights for five years under the Accession Regulations. This document therefore deals only with applications for ILR.
Applicants for ILR under ECAA need to have been granted initial leave in the category and then at least one extension of their leave. They do not need to obtain a second extension, even if their leave to remain expires before they have spent five years in the category. Time spent purely as a self-employed person under the Accession Regulations may therefore count towards the five years, but applicants must still meet all the requirements of paragraph 222 throughout the period of five years.

[vinny]

See also European Casework Instructions > Chapter 7 - Accession State Nationals.

[Gina_C]

Hi!! I came across this board by chance and thought I'd post a query of my own if that's ok.
I have been with my husband since April last year and got married in January this year. As he's Romanian we applied for the relevant registration documents using the br1 form as advised by the home office. What I'd like to know is if anyone has any idea how long this process is currently taking as it states on the bia website not to ring to enquire about timescales as they can't tell you. Thanks!!

[petkanov]

It took me about a month for mine

[Gina_C]

Well I sent all the papers off on Feb 21st and haven't had nothing yet but I need them back soon to get my passport sorted before we go on holiday.

[nickg]

Well I sent all the papers off on Feb 21st and haven't had nothing yet but I need them back soon to get my passport sorted before we go on holiday.

My wife applied for BR1 on February 6th and it was issued on March 26th, 7 weeks.

You can ring the Sheffield number up to progress your application, but be very patient, they take an awfully long time to answer the phone.

[Gina_C]

Thank You! I did just that and the wait wasn't too bad actually (must have caught them at a good time) They said it's taking about 8 weeks so hopefully we should have everything back in the next week or so. Thanks for you responses....

[fret]

Hello!
I have a very unclear matter to ask you about. I am a Romanian citizen and I applied under HSMP in June 2006. Now I need to apply for extension of that in order to be able to continue working, and I am not clear about my options, the same were the people I asked at HSMP.gov. Firstly, they told me I should apply now for a blue certificate, under BR1 form and that will give me indefinite leave to remain (???) I explained that I heard about the fact that if I use BR1 and get a blue certificate I will lose my previous years worked in the UK under a work permit, regarding an aplication for permanent residence in 5 years. I forgot to say that I am in the UK since 2004, first 2 years with work permit, since 2006 with HSMP. So, they told me they don't know exactly about "losing" the previous years worked here, as counted years for the 5 necessary when applying for permanent residence. Now, they also told me I can apply for extension under the BR2 form, which is a continuation of HSMP for Bulgarians and Romanians.
My question would be: application under which form (BR1 or BR2) will definitely give me the possibility that in 1 year from now (as I already have 4 years worked in the UK, 2 as work permit holder and 2+1 from now on as HSMP/BR2) to apply for permanent residence in the UK? Could you maybe give me more "light" into this matter? Is it true what I heard from different sources that if I now apply for a blue certificate (BR1), I will lose the previous 4 years worked in case I apply later for permanent residence?
Sorry for giving maybe a bit too many details or being repetitive, but I wanted to be clear in my question. I would really appreciate any good information and/or explanations related to this problem.
Thank you very much in advance!!!