Experience with INCOMPETENT Border Control at Heathrow Term1

[giardaella]

@insider
U r probably right, this tactic could be more effective. Also, in the thread u posted, u mention EEA FP(family permit). I don't think fp exempts u from filling the landing card, only the residence cards and permanent rc do. Fp needs to be stamped not least to show the first day u start to live according to the regulations and also because it is not the relevant residence permit for the purposes of the 2006 regulations, i stand to be corrected.

Again, thx everyone for airing your concerns at my "rude" behaviour, but i am yet to hear why!!! Where exactly was out of line?

[keffers]

Also, i'm not Intending to live in the UK forever so the "gain" and "loss" balance will be restored, dont u worry

But I don't think you will ever be truly happy. Immigrants like you are common place. Big chip on at least one shoulder.

Thankfully there are plenty of level headed immigrants who appreciate being allowed to settle here.

Living here forever? Better get used to complying with rules and regulations. That's the British way - didn't you know that?

[sunmoon]

lots of comments posted here already.. I would like to add a little. Your statement seems me that not the IOs but you think yourself that the non-EU passport holders are 2nd class citizen and by using the EU queue you tried to show people that got promoted to 1st class !! Later you mention that your partner is a qualified professional, does it really matter to other?
You seems very arrogant person and think like you are the only qualified person. To sit down at the airport immigration desk what qualification do someone need?

[giardaella]

But I don't think you will ever be truly happy. Immigrants like you are common place.

This post has nothing to do with me finding happiness...

Living here forever? Better get used to complying with rules and regulations. That's the British way - didn't you know that?

Where have I exhibited that I do not comply with the laws of this country. On the contrary, I am complete opposite to those who come to this country and try to change it and try to impose their values etc on the people of this great country. I believe in playing by the rules of the country you come to live in and as they say, when in Rome, Do as the Romans Do... and not like many, you know WHO I am talking about, not least the incompetent IO turned immigrant I met

[giardaella]

Later you mention that your partner is a qualified professional, does it really matter to other?

Qualified PERSON, not Professional. If you did a little research, or had at least any clue what I am talking about, you wouldn't make this ignorant comment. God, should I just delete this post, people are just not getting it... some people I must say.

[sunmoon]

Later you mention that your partner is a qualified professional, does it really matter to other?

Qualified PERSON, not Professional. If you did a little research, or had at least any clue what I am talking about, you wouldn't make this ignorant comment. God, should I just delete this post, people are just not getting it... some people I must say.

After all these posts/ comments from different people you still try to say you were right ? I think you were not only rude with the IOs but also with the forum members as well by posting your arrogant replies.

[mulderpf]

You are just not getting it. Even from a completely anonymous forum post, people on here can see that your attitude stinks. You want to be treated like the queen - even the fact that you bothered to come on here and complain that you were "treated like a 2nd class citizen" because you were "asked to join the non-EU queue", shows what you think of non-EU citizens.

And then, the fact that you point out: "A short lady wearing a muslim hijab" and "He replied, struggling to speak English at all, I started to wonder how he'd got the job and if they employ HIS type, who do they reject" clearly shows that you put people into their stereotypical boxes as well.

And then to make matters worse, you refer to people as "idiot", "incompetent", "moron", "unprofessional", "ignorant" (of course all directed at other people, not only in your original post, but thereafter too whilst calling yourself a "kind and just" person).

I am sure that you have exhibited exactly the kind and just person that you are and that everyone here can see just how unfairly you were treated. Whatever!! You deserve EXACTLY what you get in life.

[paulmu]

Seems like a few of the forum members are taking this personally, which I think is wrong.

The OP does contain some important information that should help others in the the same situation. The approach to dealing with IOs will vary depending on the individual. In any event, I don't think we should be judge and jury in this case.

A case in point: I have worked with some people whom one might describe as arrogant; however, this comes from a person who is very knowledgeable on the subject matter and is generally confident.

There is too much of a 'soft' approach to poor service in Britain. Should we really just accept this 'culture' by keeping quiet? The more that people complain about poor service the better this will be for everyone. The benefits will eventually flow through our society. And I for one am for it!

[86ti]

It's interesting to see how some people have turned their attention solely to the OP's behaviour and minor details. But the fact still remains: from the legal point of view the OP is right, like it or not. IMHO the UKBA has failed on three accounts, most seriously by stamping the passport which is clearly unlawful. I agree with paulmu that there is some important information for others here. Personally, I prefer to stay with the facts and do not want to engage in an emotionally charged discussion that has done little to deal with the actual problem.

[fysicus]

Wherever you are from - it is that country's gain - and our loss.

Be thankful you are able to legally walk the streets of this country by virtue of a piece of legislation that nobody in this country voted for.

I get clear picture of your attitude.

Ever watch the TV program about the cut-price airlines and the obnoxious passengers? That's you to a tee.

Its ungrateful folk like you who give immigrants a bad name and make it more difficult for those who come after you.

Most of the obnoxious passengers of cut-price airlines are binge-drinking Brits. Nice example to make your point!

Why are you as a UKIP voter registering on this forum, just to make these intolerant comments?

Do you know what would happen if the UK would opt out of 2004/38 (which they cannot, except by leaving the EU and the EEA)? All British pensioners now living in Spain would have to repatriate; imagine the drain on housing and healthcare resources they would require!

[MPH80]

Paulmu/86ti,

This problem could have been avoided if the OP's post read:

Beware - some of the ECOs at the airport don't know the rules re: family permits. I had a bit of fuss when I was in the european line and they tried to get me to move to the other nationality line. In the end - they also stamped my passport which they shouldn't have done. Suffice to say - I'll be making a formal complaint.

That would have got the information across and not caused all the fuss and bother he's recieved.

Personally - I was annoyed by the OP telling off the ECOs. It isn't his job. The supervisor was quite right to tell him to hush when he was doing it. the OP makes the complaint - the supervisor deals with it and disciplines appropriately. I suspect half of the fuss and noncense could have been avoided (and I suspect the OP could have been out of the airport 5 times quicker) if he was a touch more polite.

M.

M.

[Obie]

The OP was right in all respect, save for the time when the Chief Immigration officer intervened.

The OP has a right not to have his passport stamped, and to be treated equally to any EEA national or nationals of the UK. This is provided under regulation 11 of EEA regulations and Article 24 of the Directive, if i am correct. This also includes being treated on the same scale at airport.

It is very unfortunate that the IO were not educated about these rights.

Provided the OP was not simply angry because the IO who made the error was wearing an Hijab, i am in support of his demand that his rights must be respected.

When the Chief immigration officer intervened, i believe he should have been more calmer, and allow him to address the error. As it is pretty obvious he was unable to deal with it on his own, which is why he requested a supervisor. If he had requested a supervisor, then he should allow him to excute his function without the need to assist him. By throwing insult at the IO in th presence of the CIO, he weakens his case, and any disciplinary action that might have been taken against the officer to prevent future breach will be severely undermined, as she will claim that it was your conduct and aggression, that made her refuse to address your claim. You see where i am coming from. Those anger should have subsided immediately or shortly on arrival of the Chief Immigration officer. A calmer approach should have then being adopted.

Apart from that i support your stance fully.

[desi_parrot]

@giardaellans WHAT EVER YOU DID YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.. YOU FOUGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS. AND MOST OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NON EU ARE SCARED OF IMMIGRATION WONT DO IT . AND THIS IS THE FACT HOME OFFICE STAF TREATS NON EU NATIONAL AS A 2ND CLASS CITIZEN AT BORDER CONTROLS. I AM PROUD OF YOU AND WILL FULLY SUPPORT YOU IF YOU WRITE A LETTER TO HOME OFFICE AND DEMAND APOLOGY.
I WISH I COULD HAVE DONE THE SAME . WHEN IT HAPPEND TO ME ON THE WAY TO GERMNAY FRANKFURT AND ON THE WAY BACK TO HEATHROW.
SO DISGUSTING ..
WOULD YOU IMAGINE . THEY DIDNT LET ME ENTER TO GERMANY WITH RC OF EU FAMILY MEMBER JUST FOR TRANSIT TO SPAIN.
WELL THAT IS DIFFERENT TOPIC.. WELL . YOU HAVE DONE A GREAT THING..
THANKS

[giardaella]

Thank u desi parrot (dont write in capitals, its equivalent to shouting) paulmu, 86ti, fysicus and obie for understanding where i was coming from. Especially that the reaches have continued since 2008 at least, the link that INSIDER posted! Shouldnt it be time that they finally get it right on ALL occasions? If someone important was denied entry this way amd made a big fuss, the IO would have gotten into trouble, surely, and either the person training or being trained should get a least a verbal warning for not being competent. Dont they sign off after each training statimg they fully understand whats what etc? Shows so much for their cimpetence when u c the breaches continue for so long.

As regards my "behaviour", i am not a kid and when i confront an IO i expect him to handle ANY situation, i wasnt being abusive, i never called them names (even in front of the CIO, obie), i was just being assertive, is it such a bad quality?

Again people, i am strict to those who r in a position of authority and display sheer incomletence, as i one doesnt pick on the small bits, this could lead to disasters in more serious matters! Imqgine an asylum seeker being deportd from the airport back to the country he's rightfully seeking asylum from, and getting killed there as a result of the incompetence of the IO! Would u care about niceties, politeness and being reserved in ur emotions if this happened? No! U'd be the first to demand the IO responsible to at least lose the job or the whole training of IOs to be revamped!

@MPH
i wrote it the way i wrote it to show what happens in reality, not the broef overview of what happens in general, and also to vemt my anger to some extent. I hate incompetence!!!!! Especially of those in the position of authority! And doctors/nurses/GPs killing ppl through incompetence and insufficient training.

And yes, i didnt have a go at them only because of their attitude, how different r they to any other service providers? I pay taxes, i pay their salary!!! Why should i settle for less?

Once again, thx for understanding to those guys paulmu, 86ti, obie and to some extent fisycus, who pointed out the irrelevance of keffer's post!

I still dont think my attitude was anything more than being assertive and i am YET to hear where exactly and what exactly ppl regard as rude, all i kept saying there was that i wanted to speak to someone competent, i wanted to complain and the they r incompetent (which was fact and not an insult).... and yes, i may have queried if the girl was new for not knowing the law, get over it, if u regard this a s rude, u haven't seen what's rude!

[desi_parrot]

Wherever you are from - it is that country's gain - and our loss.

Be thankful you are able to legally walk the streets of this country by virtue of a piece of legislation that nobody in this country voted for.

I get clear picture of your attitude.

Ever watch the TV program about the cut-price airlines and the obnoxious passengers? That's you to a tee.

Its ungrateful folk like you who give immigrants a bad name and make it more difficult for those who come after you.

wht you all about. .do you have any idea and logic what are you talking about .. he was right .. and he was doing a right thing.. not like other scared no eu nationals . who do what ever they been told to do . and have no idea about their rights..
fighting for your rights and respect is not rude. .

[Obie]

This Guidance on 5.2.1 confirms that a landing card is not necessary.

OP i understand you were being assertive, and i have no problem with that, infact i support it very much, as it help others in future. What i was saying, is the statement below.

The supervisor stood there all this time and whenever I'd try to tell the guy off, he'd stop me and tell me to just explain what'd happened and he'd do the ticking off.

When done with this idiot, I asked him to find that short girl in a hijab. He brought her out, she apologised (don't think sincerely). I told her not to treat people with non-eu passports like 2nd class citizens and to call a supervisor if EVER in doubt, and at least listen to what people are telling her. Again, the supervisor stopped my telling off and just said that he'd deal with it. She rolled her eyes back again and walked off... just shows what she thought of all the fuss, but am sure she'd know what to do in the future. I took his shoulder number 2158 and he'd advised me to take Imm. Officers' numbers if I wanted to make complaints.

I might be wrong, but i just thought that, you should have respected the CIO authority, because at that time, he has acknowledge they were wrong in their dealings with you, and was in the process of dealing with them.

Telling them of yourself, does not help your course in my view,which might be wrong, it actually put some hinderance to it, especially any subsequent complaint you might wish to lodge.

I don't think you were rude or your behaviour was bad, and i apologise if any of my statement indicate this.

Apart from that, bravo to you. In my view the IO deserve a smack, not literally though, or they might attempt to revoke your card on grounds of Public Security or public policy, and besides i don't support violence, even thought i might be inclined to support it, considering the difficulties you endure at their hands.

[86ti]

I suspect half of the fuss and noncense could have been avoided (and I suspect the OP could have been out of the airport 5 times quicker) if he was a touch more polite.

Possibly, yes. But I hope you also appreciate the failings of those 3 UKBA staff in light of their legal obligations. Also, the first officer seems to not have done anything to prevent escalation of the situation either and appears to have indicated that the OP wouldn't understand his rights. That's probably the 'silent' way of denying someone's competence/knowledge etc. Personally, I am surprised that the supervisor (CIO?) allowed the OP to confront the persons involved once again because of the possible consequence that may have for further dealings with them as Obie has pointed out.

[giardaella]

I might be wrong, but i just thought that, you should have respected the CIO authority, because at that time, he has acknowledge they were wrong in their dealings with you, and was in the process of dealing with them.

It was more like veering off course, I was telling the CIO what'd happened and would automatically start to point out to the IO what they'd done wrong. It was more of being caught out by surprise, I'd thought they all knew the law, and then to have that little encounter. By the way, is that link dated July 2006 still active? Are there any updates or anyth? I'd like to print this out and quietly pass it on to the IO if it happens ever again (hoping they wouldn't just ignore it and never look at it).

Thanks again, and I wasn't taking over the CIO's job, I just know that the CIO's so called "I'll deal with it" would involve nothing serious, if anything at all. If I were confident that the CIO would deal with it appropriately then yes, but probably subconsciously I also wanted them to see I was right, rather than walk away quietly without the IOs realising they had been wrong all along.

I think this post has run its course, thanks to everyone

[giardaella]

That's probably the 'silent' way of denying someone's competence/knowledge

Spot on!!!

[keffers]

I do hope you are better behaved when queuing in a supermarket or post office.

Whoever mentioned that most of the British causing trouble at airports are boozed-up is absolutely right.

The dregs of society without much class who throw a tantrum at the slightest opportunity.

Which part of British society does giardiella want to be a part of, I wonder?

[giardaella]

Personal attack again... I drink a glass of red wine, occasionally, but even if i was an alcoholic, how is that relevant AT ALL to the encounter at the border??? Did i display any signs of a binge-drinker? What r u on about? What part of society? There are thugs and nutters who'd politely and obediently listen to the IO, i wonder what's better...

As i stated in my previous post, which i doubt u cared to read, i believe in the saying about the Romans... if that's not enough to explain my position what else would u like to hear?

Is it the fact that we r arguing in the open that keeps your antagonism overflowing? What is ur problem, what did u want me to do? Keep shtum and get on with it? But why should i? What would u have done when someone is ignoring u when u r speaking to them and blindly sends u away? Doubt that many people have so much patience in them to stand such disrespect, ESPECIALLY where u know u r 100% right!

As 86ti pointed out, if she had taken a minute to explain the reasons WHY i should go to the other queue, and let me explain MY position, we would have avoided the trouble, but she didn't and i couldn't so we did!

I do hope you are better behaved when queuing in a supermarket or post office.

Whoever mentioned that most of the British causing trouble at airports are boozed-up is absolutely right.

The dregs of society without much class who throw a tantrum at the slightest opportunity.

Which part of British society does giardiella want to be a part of, I wonder?

[Obie]

I do hope you are better behaved when queuing in a supermarket or post office.

Whoever mentioned that most of the British causing trouble at airports are boozed-up is absolutely right.

The dregs of society without much class who throw a tantrum at the slightest opportunity.

Which part of British society does giardiella want to be a part of, I wonder?

I think keffers needs to grasps the nature of the issues at hand on this thread. There seem to be a lack of understanding, or a high degree of ignorance on your part keffers. It is one thing to have an issue with immigrant , and another to be blatantly abusive and uttering lots of rubbish which does not provide a solution to the situation on the thread, neither does it provide an advice or encourage a respectful and civilised debate.

This is an individual whose rights were being violated. He has probably travelled on a long journey, tired and just want to go home. All of a sudden he encouters an immigration officer who is not prepared to investigate the individual's claim, which as it happens are well founded.
What do you expect him to have done in such circumstances?
I guess if you understand the rights we are talking about hear, then you might be in the position of appreciating the gravity of the Immigration Officer's offence.

Just like justice delayed is justice denied. So is a right delayed is a right denied. If the guy had gone to the all others queue, his automatic right of entry and not to have a stamp on his passport would have been denied. This will, to all intense and purpose have been an infringement of his rights.

I hope you understand this. If in the unfortunate event of you not understanding, then perhaps subject to futher observation, the forum authorities should consider the position of your continued presence on this forum.

In regards to your question OP, i believe the guidance i citated are still in force, and have not been ammended since July 2006, shortly after the Directive came into force.

[keffers]

There is a lot of good advice on this board generously given with the best of intentions by people to people who are desperate for help.

For someone to come on this board ranting and raving about an official who is not able to defend themselves is pathetic.

I too am helping someone who is hoping to enter this country on a VAF5 permit. I would be horrified if they had the attitude of giardaella over such a trivial matter as to which queue he/she should be in. I am confident they would not.

Humouring folk such as giardaella only encourages them to continue with such childish behaviour.

A right not to have a stamp in a passport? Justice denied! Get over yourselves.

I hope you understand this. If in the unfortunate event of you not understanding, then perhaps subject to futher observation, the forum authorities should consider the position of your continued presence on this forum.

A difference of opinion is not to your liking, I see.

[Blackwater1]

Why can't OP contacts a Law firm and sue UKBA for discrimination?It's better way to take `revenge' than describing IO's atrocities here which is totally a priceless waste of time.

[giardaella]

I too am helping someone who is hoping to enter this country on a VAF5 permit.

Tell us how that one goes and good luck. Feel free to ask any questions if u need help and hope u dont get those incompetent morons upon your "someone's" entry into the UK.