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Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

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doc_S
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Standard Visitor Visa (Family) - Long Term ... Application before expiry?

Post by doc_S » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:22 pm

Dear Sir/Madam,

When can someone apply for a new standard visitor visa (family) long term (5 or 10 years) if they have a current valid visa (5 years) which is not yet expired? My mother current 5 years visa is expiring in July. However, we would like to apply for a new 5-10 years visa in April (3 months in advance) as we would like her to travel in May but stay till Sept/Oct (hence she requires new visa). can we apply for new visa when there is still 3 months validity of current visa? or one can only apply after current visa expires?

many thanks.

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Casa
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Re: Standard Visitor Visa (Family) - Long Term ... Application before expiry?

Post by Casa » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:25 pm

How much time has your mother spent in the UK under her current visitor visa? When was her last visit?
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

doc_S
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Re: Standard Visitor Visa (Family) - Long Term ... Application before expiry?

Post by doc_S » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:30 pm

During her 5 years visa, she has usually spent about 5/5.5 months every 6 months (once a year) Always stayed less than 6 months on each visit and usually gives 5-6 months gap between each visit. She went back in mid october 2017 after her last visit. So it has been 5 months already and woukd be six months by mid April.

doc_S
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Re: Standard Visitor Visa (Family) - Long Term ... Application before expiry?

Post by doc_S » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:22 pm

Will appreciate a reply Casa or anyone please?

doc_S
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Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

Post by doc_S » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:05 am

My mother has been visiting UK for last 10 years on family visitor visas. After her recent 5 years visa expired, we applied for new one. No change in circumstances in last 10 years, but ECO refused on the basis of not showing family back home. Which i showed similar to last successful application with a family tree showing 32 family members in homeland and only 4 of us in UK. However, he ignored it by daying it is self made family tree!!! My mother has 10 years of established immigration history sticking to all visitor visa rules. Despite considering it in her favour, they have used it against her. They have refused x2 now and i am baffled. With no right of appeal how can you justify evidence provided if ECO ignoring it? There must be a way to appeal or can i file a judicial review? If so then how? Who can I contact/write? Feel helpless.

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Re: Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

Post by CR001 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:15 am

What is the exact wording of the refusal (taking out personal details)?

How long did she state on her previous visa she was visiting? Did she state a shorter duration or always that she was staying 5.5 months?

What evidence of ties to home country did she provide (besides the self made family tree)?

Unfortunately, visitor visas are becoming more difficult to get and the requirements now are more stringent and more scrutinised than the last time she applied 5 years ago.

There is no appeal right for visitor visas.

JR is very expensive and unlikely you will win and if you lose, you have to pay HO costs too.
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ilruk84
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Re: Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

Post by ilruk84 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:38 am

Hi,

My parents recently got 10 years visitor visa, their previous one expired in May2018 so we applied for their 10 year visa in end of March 2018.

We first applied for 6 months in year 2007, then 2 years and for 5 years, during their 7.5 years of visit visa term they came only 5-6 times and stayed max of 4 months. My father is retired and my mum is school teacher.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

Post by secret.simon » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:54 am

doc_S wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:05 am
No change in circumstances in last 10 years, but ECO refused on the basis of not showing family back home.
Not strictly true that there was no change in circumstance, namely her repeated and long residence in the UK.
doc_S wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:30 pm
During her 5 years visa, she has usually spent about 5/5.5 months every 6 months (once a year) Always stayed less than 6 months on each visit and usually gives 5-6 months gap between each visit.
The Immigration Rules caution against "frequent and successive visits" to the UK.
Part 4 of Appendix V - Immigration Rules for visitors wrote:V 4.2 The applicant must satisfy the decision maker that they are a genuine visitor. This means that the applicant:
(a) will leave the UK at the end of their visit; and
(b) will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home; and
(c) is genuinely seeking entry for a purpose that is permitted by the visitor routes (these are listed in Appendices 3, 4 and 5); and
(d) will not undertake any prohibited activities set out in V 4.5 – V 4.10; and
(e) must have sufficient funds to cover all reasonable costs in relation to their visit without working or accessing public funds. This includes the cost of the return or onward journey, any costs relating to dependants, and the cost of planned activities such as private medical treatment.
Contrary to popular belief, there is no 6 months in a year rule.

Try to understand how a UK-born caseworker would look at a "visit" application. They would typically spend a week over Christmas, maybe two. For other special occasions (birth in the family, christening, bar mitzvah), they would be looking at somebody staying for 2-4 weeks, not for 2-4 months, let alone 5-6 months. And these expectations are as true of second-generation migrants as they are of people who have been here generations.

Visit visas are meant to be for short, memorable and sweet visits, not residing in the UK.

Based on her past behaviour, the Entry Clearance Officer may have concluded that your mother has made frequent or successive visits to the UK and is effectively residing in the UK in the guise of a visit visa, even if they stayed in the UK less than six months each time, and therefore refused a new visit visa. Indeed, you are lucky that her visa was not curtailed.

As CR001 has mentioned, you could launch a JR, but it can be doubly expensive if you lose.

You may be better off visiting her in another EEA country or even visit her in her country of normal residence.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

doc_S
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Re: Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

Post by doc_S » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:38 am

ilruk84 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:38 am
Hi,

My parents recently got 10 years visitor visa, their previous one expired in May2018 so we applied for their 10 year visa in end of March 2018.

We first applied for 6 months in year 2007, then 2 years and for 5 years, during their 7.5 years of visit visa term they came only 5-6 times and stayed max of 4 months. My father is retired and my mum is school teacher.

Hope this helps.
You are very lucky. Unfortunately, my mother is a widow and does not work. I’m the only son. Two sisters but they are married and not dependant on her. She does own her house and have savings and income from portion of house rent. Despite these circumstances, she was able to secure 6 months visa x3, 2 years x 1 and then 5 years x 1. Now it has been refused.

ECO insists she didn’t show family ties in Pakistan. A self made family tree showing daughters and their family, her siblings and their families, showing total of 32 members living in homeland but ignored by ECO. How do you show a family backhome? Is there an official document needed? Or an affidavit? Don’t understand howcome twice they ignored family tree and objected that no family shown in Pak.

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Re: Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

Post by ALKB » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:39 pm

doc_S wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:38 am
ilruk84 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:38 am
Hi,

My parents recently got 10 years visitor visa, their previous one expired in May2018 so we applied for their 10 year visa in end of March 2018.

We first applied for 6 months in year 2007, then 2 years and for 5 years, during their 7.5 years of visit visa term they came only 5-6 times and stayed max of 4 months. My father is retired and my mum is school teacher.

Hope this helps.
You are very lucky. Unfortunately, my mother is a widow and does not work. I’m the only son. Two sisters but they are married and not dependant on her. She does own her house and have savings and income from portion of house rent. Despite these circumstances, she was able to secure 6 months visa x3, 2 years x 1 and then 5 years x 1. Now it has been refused.

ECO insists she didn’t show family ties in Pakistan. A self made family tree showing daughters and their family, her siblings and their families, showing total of 32 members living in homeland but ignored by ECO. How do you show a family backhome? Is there an official document needed? Or an affidavit? Don’t understand howcome twice they ignored family tree and objected that no family shown in Pak.
I believe there is something like an official NADRA family tree, that can be obtained?

I am not sure how helpful that would be, though.

The ECO might be seeing most of all: a widow who is getting older and who has spent a considerable amount of time each year in the UK on her last long term visitor visa, from a culture where traditionally the sons take care of parents in their old age. With you as the only son in the UK, her most important family ties may actually be in the UK and not in Pakistan.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

ilruk84
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Re: Family visitor visa refusal .... Any scope of JR?

Post by ilruk84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Hi,

We never showed any family tree structure as there wasn't such requirement on documents list we were provided, we only submitted the required documents like Bank statements, property documents etc, all my siblings are in UK but again we never provided anything extra.

Regards
Anwar

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