Impact of REFUSAL - FLR -Anyone

[kammy]

I have been refused to stay further in UK. after getting my Workpermit through because of my status as a visitor in the country.

My concerns:

1. STAMP (Refusal) on the Passport (Hexagonal shape - ink stamp with a black line)- Does this stamp go against any visa application I make in future to come to UK?

2. If my employer applies for my workpermit again for me so that I can get entry clearance from my home country. What effect will refusal to stay have on my entry clearance (visa application) at the high commission in my home country.


3. If I appeal in the mean time can the Employer ask for no.2 point above?

4. After lodging the appeal am I allowed to leave when I want? will that affect my appeal?

I am confused as I haven't been able to get a clear picture through. One solicitor I spoke to sounded that I have committed a sin as I have got this stamp on my passport which will ruin my record if I want to take this job up as well as in future.

Anyone please help me.


Thanks a lot in advance.

Cheers!

[Chess]

1. Yes

2) no effect unless you overstay your current visa

3) Dont waste time appealing

4) see answer 3 above

[don67]

Hello chess

can you tell me the length of appeal process? I mean appeal date. As far s I know appeal date usually comes after months even year rather then weeks. I might be wrong as different cases, different problems

[kammy]

[quote="Chess"]1. Yes


2) no effect unless you overstay your current visa

Thanks CHESS

Regarding 1. Above ...what kind of problems one has to face when reapplying for visa?

'No EFFECT UNLESS OVERSTAY'

An official at Home Office says as long as I stay in UK within the period given to appeal I am legal but after that I am subject to deportation. Officer adds that if one leaves the country within those legal period one still is overstayer by those many days from the receipt of the letter.


This seems bit harsh. In such a case.The immigration officer in the home country has the discretion to grant entry clearance or not.

How is one supposed to deal with it.

[bani]

hi kammy,

don't bother with an appeal, rules clearly state that you cannot go from visitor to workpermit by an FLR application. you need to go to your home country to do this. the rule has been around for a long time, i don't see them making an exception just to grant you approval.

as for the entry clearance, it is at the discretion of the visa officer in your home country. but you have space on the VAF1 form to explain the refusal stamp on your passport. you can say that it was an honest mistake, you thought switching your status could be done in the UK.

is your visitor visa still valid? because if you are overstaying, that would not be good for your work visa application.

[Ashwin2005]

[quote="kammy"]I have been refused to stay further in UK. after getting my Workpermit through because of my status as a visitor in the country.
[/quote]

Why did they refuse your stay after granting the workpermit?
It is not illegal to be a visitor, then did you overstay or did you start your work before getting the work permit?

[kammy]

Thanks Bani and Ashwin,

Why did they refuse your stay after granting the workpermit?

I was a student and extended my visa towards the end of my education so I got 'Limted Leave to Remain'. No notification was received that my status changed to Visitor. College had asked for my stay for Ceremonies and presentations. The endorsements on Residence Permit said 'No work or engagement in business' which I followed. But wasn't aware that I was switched to Visitor and was happy with the permit and didn't bother asking anyone about the status. An opportunity came (short term) which required my skills and I told the epmloyer I can't work might need workpermit for the duration, which employer start to process and received it. During the processing of the Workpermit my visa was expiring so I submitted FLR (IED) and in a week after the approval of WP I got a refusal for FLR(IED).



(Is this a valid explanation for the immigration officer - although I know ignorance cannot be an excuse) I certainly made a mistake. I didn't want to get into this mess.


Had I known my status was a visitor I would have pointed that in the FORM. I recently read that it is a discretion of the case worker to issue the permit to a visitor if it would cause hassle for the person to reapply and travel again for a short term project.

[kammy]

hi kammy,
is your visitor visa still valid? because if you are overstaying, that would not be good for your work visa application.

NO. I have been asked to leave 'as soon as possible' or 'appeal' within 10 working days. I tried exploring the possibilities of appealing which everyone is of opinion that its useless. Some people have told that on rejection of appeal I might not ever be given chance to enter UK. so I have decided to leave, despite pressure from my Girl friend and her family to get married and stay which seems not a very good idea under the circumstances.

But by the time I fly away it would be 20days from the date of stamp of refusal.

** What Would I be considered an overstayer or illegal? How serious is this? **

I have been making arrangements to leave (booked the flight within a week of notice) and keep the employer posted so the company can process papers again after I have left. Although, some executives are of view that its not worth going through the process again for a short term assignment as it would cost money,time and lot of paperwork again.

** Can the employer apply for workpermit while I am in between moving myself? so that papers can move while am leaving. **

I dont want to close my option of coming back to UK in future.
Any Thoughts, ideas, suggestion in Dealing with these questions would be of great help.

[bani]

Hi Kammy,

Thanks for explaining. I can see how it can be an honest mistake, because it wasn't clear that your status changed on the first FLR.

Also, I think ~20 days is reasonable after notice that you must leave. But I am no expert on this, so hopefully someone else can give his/her opinion. But you can tell the EC officer that it was the soonest possible.

Hopefully the company gives you another workpermit. Yes, they can request for another one while you are moving to your home country. You don't have to be present during their application.

Good luck!

[Kayalami]

I was a student and extended my visa towards the end of my education so I got 'Limted Leave to Remain'.

On what form was this application - FLR (O) or FLR (S)?

[kammy]

Thanks Bani and Kayalami,

I had sent application on FLR(S) in mid Dec after consulting the homeoffice. The education was officially finishing in Dec but didn't get degree till mid February after the dissertation and all that was cleared. The college wrote to support the extension application that I was required to attend the presentation of my work etc and also to receive the degree.

The HO people told me on Friday, since I was not student technically so I was given visitor visa.

I think it isn't fair to not inform me that my status was switched to visitor from student to visitor therefore this miscommunication has led me to this refusal. IAS and WP said I can appeal but said there are no merit in the case. So I don't know if I should write to the officers in IND or HO to make the communications clear for future applicants.

***I dont know how serious this would be for my future UK entry***

***Can the employer apply for WORK PERMIT again while am still preparing to leave the country***

Inputs will be helpful.
Thanks

[Kayalami]

Kammy,

Technically your FLR was on a student basis by virtue of the form submitted. It appears that the HO deemed the reasons for the extension as falling out the remit of LTR as a student - a review of the comments by the college confirms that you will not be a student 'per se' as per the immigration rules. It could have been worse - they could have sent the application back and asked you to resubmit it on form FLR (O) then you would have been an overstayer. The HO seemed to have granted LTR as a visitor by way of concession.

An appeal may have some merit and you may win it but that you may lose (IMOH likely) plus the time factor for such being listed before the appellate authorities makes it a route best not to take. Your WP is valid for 6 months from issuance to get a visa. Get this from the British Diplomatic Post in your home country. Explain the refusal to the visa officer. It won't have any impact on the WP visa. This route is best and you can commence work as soon as possible. After all that is what really matters.

Safe trip and good luck.

[kammy]

Thanks Kayalami, the inputs are very helpful in making 'right' decisions.

**The work for which I am being employed is short term 2-3 months.**

Kammy,
Your WP is valid for 6 months from issuance to get a visa.

Does this mean the 'WorkPErmit Approval Letters' issued by 'Incountry TEAM' is still VALID although the FLR(IED) has been refused.

If NOT


Since the WorkPermit Approval was issued for a sepecific period (till End of Oct) would it be easier to get the 'Permit' for a new time period.

I am curious to know if the
**Employer can reapply for the 'PERMIT' while am still in country or do I have to technically leave the country for the employer to apply again. I want them to start acting on the case to save time.**

Your inputs are appreciated.

[Smit]

Kammy,

My understanding is that your WP letter is still valid notwithstanding the fact that your FLR application has been turned down. All you need to do is leave the UK ASAP and apply for an EC on the basis of the WP.

Each WP application is decided by the HO on its own merits, there is no guarantee that WP(UK) will approve an extension or grant you a new WP just because one was approved previously.

You should leave the country before the fresh application is lodged.

[Kayalami]

kammy,

1st things 1st.

1. What month was the WP issued?

2. What is its duration?

[kammy]

Hi Kayalami


1. The Approval Letter was issued on 31/8/05

2. untill 31/10/05


***It says IED approval letter rather than Work Permit***

Thanks.

[Kayalami]

Kammy,

I am afraid it doesn't look good.

1. IED approval letter may not be used overeas - its for incountry.

2. Your employer needs to request Work Permits UK for re-issue of a standard WP for overseas visa application. They need to explain the visitor/ student visa issue.

3 Given you have lost 3 weeks might be best for employer to ask for a fresh WP with new fees. Again they may be lucky and WP UK issue new dates free.

4. Unusual to get such a short duration WP - what is the nature of the job (broadly speaking?). Is it a specific project with set timelines? Has the employer applied for WP's before? Are they a relatively well known organisation to include listing on the FTSE?

5. Above means aspect of returnability may be an issue. Usually incountry refusals do not impact on an overseas WP application where said application is for a long term WP (circa 24 months or more) since standard WP's lead to settlement in the UK. Duration factor may be minimal based on capability extension of WP - this in turn influenced by my queries in 4.

6. If you are an engineering/ science grad you may be eligible for SEGS = 12 month visa with no restrictions on employment.

7. Don't remain in the UK beyond validity of your last visa (visitor extension).

[kammy]

Kayalami,

Organisation is not a commercial one.
Have one or two non EU employees but on permanent basis. It is more of Art and Cultural organisation funded by the State.

My project was specific requiring aesthetic and techinical inputs with some timeline but could be flexible. It took a long time to get the approval.

As far as 7 is concerned. I have made all arrangements to leave but my leave expired after I had sent the passport for FLR(IED) and the period of appeal will be over in couple of days.

***I am not sure if it is worth chasing for such a short term WP?***
***What are the hassles of switching Employer/WP? ***
***Does the employer have to advertise again***
***Is it easier to switch employer ***

Inputs will be very helpful.
Thanks.

[Kayalami]

kammy,

As far as 7 is concerned. I have made all arrangements to leave but my leave expired after I had sent the passport for FLR(IED) and the period of appeal will be over in couple of days.

Operational policy means you are ok to depart UK to the point of appeal or reasonably thereafter = approx 28 days. Best to proceed with travel plans as things stand.

***I am not sure if it is worth chasing for such a short term WP?***

One for you to decide really given I don't know your aspirations, sector performance etc.

***What are the hassles of switching Employer/WP? ***

Same as any job search - you need a willing employer for both the role and consent to sponsor WP.

***Does the employer have to advertise again***

Yes unless it is Tier 1 role = shortage occupations, board level, intra company transfers etc.

***Is it easier to switch employer ***

Yes subject to the following - If you are on Tier 2 WP and change employer but new job is similar then new WP application processed as Tier 1 with no need for advertising.

[kammy]

Kayalami,

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I really appreciate this.


1. Regards Switching Employer : Just to understand it - u mean if one has a workpermit and before the WP expires one switches the employer in the same profession/industry. There is no need to show the advertisement like in the first work permit.

2. Is it irrespective of the long or short term employement?

This would be an important factor to decide if it is worth the chase for a short term employement.

Thanks a lot.