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My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

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adesuwa
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My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm

Hi guys
I have an extremely complex immigration history, where a caseworker withdrew my application and failed to serve me any notice.

My ex-wife (now divorced) was given a stay and my daughter turns 10 this year. So we will be registering her as a BC and I see her regularly (She was born here and never left the UK)

I re-applied in 2005 and was rejected, even though she was 7, the appeal was refused as the judge said he refused to believe anything I was saying.

Now my daughter turns 10 and I have a pending application based on a 10 year route which has been with the HO for over a year without a final response (As I applied for a fee waiver). I have been without work or funds for so many years now and the little I get from family I send to my ex-wife £200PCM for my daughter

Please advise on this
many thanks
A

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by ouflak1 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:14 am

adesuwa wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm
Hi guys
I have an extremely complex immigration history,
We will probably need that, including dates of entry (and on what basis), refusals, appeals, everything; if we are going to be able to provide any help at all.
adesuwa wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm
...where a caseworker withdrew my application and failed to serve me any notice.
I do not believe that this is technically possible.
adesuwa wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm
My ex-wife (now divorced) was given a stay...

On what basis?
adesuwa wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm
I re-applied in 2005 and was rejected, even though she was 7, the appeal was refused as the judge said he refused to believe anything I was saying.
I think the judge believed every word you were saying but just applied the rules accordingly. The visa based on a child attaining 7 hears of age in the UK is extremely hard to get and meant for the single primary care-giver of a child in exceptionally difficult circumstance with no real opportunity to make a life in their parent's home country(s). From your brief description, you are not the primary caregiver, and your daughter in not in that kind of situation (you've got family support from your home country to help you survive in the UK, some of which presumably if going toward the support of the child).
adesuwa wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm
Now my daughter turns 10 and I have a pending application based on a 10 year route which has been with the HO for over a year without a final response (As I applied for a fee waiver).
What exactly have you applied for?
adesuwa wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm
I have been without work or funds for so many years now and the little I get from family I send to my ex-wife £200PCM for my daughter
It sounds like a hard life. Would you be willing to return to your home country and perhaps make everything easier on yourself there?

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:40 am

thanks for your reply, I can give you a long endless history of my stay in the UK

A few corrections though, my financial support is not coming from my home country, but my jnr bro who is a doctor in canada (He holds a canadian passport). He wanted to file for me to emigrate to canada, but leaving my daughter behind would be impossible, hence my resolution to fight to the end

MOVING FORWARD
I applied for 10 years route as a parent of a child who was born here (under 18 and never left the uk) Its been over a year and I am yet to get a response, My daughter turns 10 this november

Kindly advise on this please (As the past is quite complex and wont get my any favours )
thank you

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by CR001 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:44 am

It would be difficult for anyone on an internet forum to offer worthwhile advice without understanding and seeing what your immigration history is and what applications you have made, when your last leave to remain expired etc.
My ex-wife (now divorced) was given a stay and my daughter turns 10 this year. So we will be registering her as a BC and I see her regularly (She was born here and never left the UK)

I re-applied in 2005 and was rejected, even though she was 7, the appeal was refused as the judge said he refused to believe anything I was saying.
Particularly this point above, which doesn't make sense.
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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:44 am

I applied for FLR FP - 10 years route as a parent of a child who has lived in the UK continuously after birth and under 18 and fee waiver.

I am yet to hear from the HO, however I was awarded a free biometrics in april

My daughter turns 10 in november

adesuwa
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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:06 am

Summary of my immigration history is as follows

Our daughter was born 2008 november

2005 we came in as a student (my ex wife) and I was the student dependant, which was renewed till when we applied for a work permit, my ex wife withdrew my application in 2011. The HO failed to serve me any notices, so my solicitor re-applied for me (in 2012 as a parent) which was rejected in 2014 with right of appeal which dragged till 2015 (the case was adjourned 3 times due to lack of court time and failure of HO to make an appearance) in 2016 the judge refused it.

In 2017 I reapplied for FLR FP (10 year route) with fee waiver and still waiting to this day

I honestly dont know my ex wife status, but unlike in 2015 when she had troubles and used to ask me for advise and funds, now she wont tell me a thing and is at peace

adesuwa
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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:08 am

ouflak1 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:14 am


It sounds like a hard life. Would you be willing to return to your home country and perhaps make everything easier on yourself there?
I would have emigrated to canada to join my brother, but the thought of abandoning my daughter is a nightmare, secondly I never knew the UK policy was hostile towards families, this i find shocking

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by CR001 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:10 am

Why did your ex wife withdraw your application?

Have you previously posted under a different username as what you are describing is identical to a post a few months ago.
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adesuwa
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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:28 am

CR001 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:10 am
Why did your ex wife withdraw your application?

Have you previously posted under a different username as what you are describing is identical to a post a few months ago.
no

why she withdrew it ? we had a fight, which was not uncommon

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by ouflak1 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:44 am

adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:08 am
ouflak1 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:14 am


It sounds like a hard life. Would you be willing to return to your home country and perhaps make everything easier on yourself there?
I would have emigrated to canada to join my brother, but the thought of abandoning my daughter is a nightmare, secondly I never knew the UK policy was hostile towards families, this i find shocking
The United Kingdom is very supportive of families and I would even say generous, arguably beyond reason, in that support. It's something that's been taken unfairly advantage by many. It's one of the things that makes the UK such an attractive destination for immigrants. However it is a small island country that has to import the vast majority of its resources. The social system, while remarkably well-develoed and instituted, has it's limits. It's just not practical to let every relative in from around the world who would want to live in the country, even husband/wives/children combinations. The line has to be drawn somewhere and while that may be interpreted as being 'hostile', none of that social system is free. It's very costly and the nation has simply got to remain in a position so survive and to maintain its standard of life for its citizens and legal residents.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:08 am
...I honestly dont know my ex wife status, but unlike in 2015 when she had troubles and used to ask me for advise and funds, now she wont tell me a thing and is at peace...
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:08 am
...I send to my ex-wife £200PCM for my daughter...
Are you still in regular contact with our daughter? Do you spend time with her on regular intervals? I understand your resources are limited in this regards, but you said you applied for a FLR(FP) visa and such details are critical and must be demonstrated. I'm just wondering what support you've supplied for you application.

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm

thanks for your reply

Yes my daughter and I have an exceptional relationship and has been the case since birth, even my ex wife testified to that fact. I witnessed her birth and have pictures from birth to this day, schooling (sports days, end of year plays etc), church attendance, all these I submitted to the HO

Why its taking so long is my worry and I wonder what will happen if its refused ? Will I be given a ROA or what ? Or what does the law say about that

A friend said to me, that since its a 10 year route which is renewed every 2.5 years, the outcome should be good, but I am super worried and struggling with funds

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by ouflak1 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:17 am

adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
Yes my daughter and I have an exceptional relationship and has been the case since birth, even my ex wife testified to that fact. I witnessed her birth and have pictures from birth to this day, schooling (sports days, end of year plays etc), church attendance, all these I submitted to the HO
That's a positive then.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
Why its taking so long is my worry and I wonder what will happen if its refused ?
The UK doesn't really have a visa that fits your situation. Such cases often get shoved to the bottom of the pile for more 'straightforward' cases. It's just the way people are. I wouldn't be surprised if you get DLR instead.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
Will I be given a ROA or what ? Or what does the law say about that
Like I said, there isn't really a visa that fits your situation. You could be refused and deported. You don't have leave and I'm not convinced you have a valid claim to leave under the current rules. Any decision in you favor will be by application of discretion in some form or another.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
but I am super worried and struggling with funds
I still wonder if you aren't making life too hard on yourself in a futile effort.

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by CR001 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:25 am

@ outflak1 - there is a visa specifically for the OPs situation, which is what has been applied for, FLR FP 10 year Parent route, 4 x 2.5 year visas. Not the easiest visa to get and takes a long time.
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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:56 am

ouflak1 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:17 am
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
Yes my daughter and I have an exceptional relationship and has been the case since birth, even my ex wife testified to that fact. I witnessed her birth and have pictures from birth to this day, schooling (sports days, end of year plays etc), church attendance, all these I submitted to the HO
That's a positive then.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
Why its taking so long is my worry and I wonder what will happen if its refused ?
The UK doesn't really have a visa that fits your situation. Such cases often get shoved to the bottom of the pile for more 'straightforward' cases. It's just the way people are. I wouldn't be surprised if you get DLR instead.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
Will I be given a ROA or what ? Or what does the law say about that
Like I said, there isn't really a visa that fits your situation. You could be refused and deported. You don't have leave and I'm not convinced you have a valid claim to leave under the current rules. Any decision in you favor will be by application of discretion in some form or another.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
but I am super worried and struggling with funds
I still wonder if you aren't making life too hard on yourself in a futile effort.
Apparently you are very wrong and dishing out wrong advise

As CR001 said above, there is a route called FLR FP (Further Leave to remain - Family Route) which is for parents or simply a carer of a child who is under 18 and has lived 7 years continously in the UK. I will not be able to apply for ILR until 10 years or shortened to 5 years if I can contribute to the UK economy as a high earner

I think you are repeatedly contradicting yourself, when you say there is no route for me as a parent and then say the UK has the best policies for families

Lastly my daughter gets her British passport in about 3months which is a major game changer



1. I am just seeking to educate myself further, hence my questions

2. Yes Life has been very dififcult for me. But life is about sacrifice for those whom you love, I rather go through hell for my daughter, than she grows up without a father figure, seeing her smile, laugh, happy for me is all I want in life

I am a very skilled programmer building cross platform phone apps and e commerce/financial applications and run an internet business, which I was asked to close it down in 2015/16, so ended up in financial hardship, I intend to re-launch it again and recover the lost years.

But for now, being a loving father is my only one desire - nothing more


Once I get my stay, I can easily get a canadian residency as my family live there, and when my daughter is an adult, I can move on with my life as my job would be complete then

thank you all for your advise

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by ouflak1 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:42 pm

CR001 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:25 am
@ outflak1 - there is a visa specifically for the OPs situation, which is what has been applied for, FLR FP 10 year Parent route, 4 x 2.5 year visas. Not the easiest visa to get and takes a long time.
I thought the OP had applied for the 7 years concession route. I assumed this since the child is not yet a citizen and apparently does not have ILR. That only leaves the 7 year concession route. If I understand the rules of the 10 year parent route (7 year concession) correctly, he doesn't qualify for that either as it is not clear that the child could not live in the parent's home country. I think all other boxes are checked off (or atleast could be argued), but that one seems to be a sticking point. Are you saying that after nine/ten years, it's probably unreasonable to expect the child to live in the parent's home country? I myself would agree with this, especially after that long in the UK and it's the only country the child has ever known. Throw iin the fact that the parents are not together, and that makes it all that more unstable. But I don't know if a case worker will see it that way.

It may be possible that I've got the OP's actual application target wrong. But he then states...
adesuwa wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:56 am
As CR001 said above, there is a route called FLR FP (Further Leave to remain - Family Route) which is for parents or simply a carer of a child who is under 18 and has lived 7 years continously in the UK. I will not be able to apply for ILR until 10 years or shortened to 5 years if I can contribute to the UK economy as a high earner

I think you are repeatedly contradicting yourself, when you say there is no route for me as a parent and then say the UK has the best policies for families
Not 'no' route, just a very very difficult one. Right now, in my opinion, It all really depends on how the Home Office, who you yourself have described (perhaps accurately) as 'hostile' decide to exercise discretion. It's not that they are against families, but the UK's social system is being strained by cases just like yours as well as a LOT of other issues that a well off-topic here, but notably people taking advantage of the system. I know that's not a very nice thing to say and I hate saying it. But I think it is best that you are prepared for the worst. I pray you get the best outcome whatever that might be. Realistically, the visa you are trying to get is notoriously difficult to acquire and in my years of being active on several immigration/expat boards, I've only ever heard of one successful case. Others got DLR. Most have been refused and quickly deported. For you, the DLR outcome would not be a bad one. You would have legal stay and (probably) a right to work. Also you would have a path to ILR and citizenship if that is something you are interested in. Further, if you actually do get this FLR visa based on the 7 year child concessioin, it would be the second case I've heard of and the first on this board, which would be really cool.

Please keep in mind that I am only giving my opinion. It's free, voluntary, and you should take it for what it's worth.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
Lastly my daughter gets her British passport in about 3months which is a major game changer
True. It strengthens your case, but there is no guarantee. You have already applied, but it is not at all unheard of for the Home Office to consider such new circumstances when deciding an application submitted before those circumstances existed. It's played out several times on this forum.
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
2. Yes Life has been very dififcult for me. But life is about sacrifice for those whom you love, I rather go through hell for my daughter, than she grows up without a father figure, seeing her smile, laugh, happy for me is all I want in life
You've already make your decision and that's it. Perhaps its just my own bias speaking out here. But I wonder if you couldn't have saved yourself lots of stress and insecurity, as well as been able to provide more for your child, if you had not returned to your home country and come back to the UK on another visa that allowed to work and maybe eventually attain permanent residence. Or even tried the Canada route and see if you couldn't came back to the UK from there. This could have potentially shaved years off your legal and financial limbo. *shrug* Maybe not though..., but then you say:
adesuwa wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 pm
I am a very skilled programmer building cross platform phone apps and e commerce/financial applications
Hmmm.... nothing to be done about that now I suppose.... The thing that concerns me here is that you say you were forced to close down your business in 2015. From your timelines, you didn't have a visa to have a business. That may not be so important now, but if you ever are in a position to acquire citizenship, it might haunt you.

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by CR001 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:47 pm

@ outflak1 - the child was born in the UK and has never left, child turning 10 soon when a Form T citizenship application can be made.
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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by ouflak1 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:05 pm

CR001 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:47 pm
@ outflak1 - the child was born in the UK and has never left,
I know. But does that count as ILR or otherwise having established permenent residence? I genuinely don't know. I just assumed not since the HO seems to be picky about that.
CR001 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:47 pm
child turning 10 soon when a Form T citizenship application can be made.
I think this will affect the original application as well. They should spot that that Form T application has been made hold off on deciding the OP's application until that citizenship goes through, then decide on FLR(FP) based on him being an active parent to a child who is a citizen. That's the hope anyway. Otherwise, DLR.
Last edited by ouflak1 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by CR001 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:09 pm

ouflak1 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:05 pm
CR001 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:47 pm
@ outflak1 - the child was born in the UK and has never left, child turning 10 soon when a Form T citizenship application can be made.
I know. But does that count as ILR or otherwise having established permenent residence? I genuinely don't know. I just assumed not since the HO seems to be picky about that.
It simply means the child knows no other culture or life outside of the UK one and it would not be conducive or in the child's best interest, for the child to leave and start from scratch in what would be a completely foreign country.

Once Form T citizenship is done, the OP and his ex spouse (whatever her status is) stand a far better chance.
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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by ouflak1 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:21 pm

CR001 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:09 pm
It simply means the child knows no other culture or life outside of the UK one and it would not be conducive or in the child's best interest, for the child to leave and start from scratch in what would be a completely foreign country.
Sorry, what I meant was that the rules specifically state that the if the child either:
  • Is a British Citizen
OR
  • Has ILR or otherwise has demonstrable permanent residence
OR
  • Has lived in the UK for seven years (and it is not reasonable for the child to leave for their parent's home country)
Unless the OP has missed a detail, he has filed an application without the first two of those points being true (or my understanding of permanent residence has incorrectly precluded birth in the UK with no formally established leave to remain). So it must be based on the third case, the seven year concession. But from the OP's description, I'm not sure he has established that the child could not make a life back in the parent's home country. Indeed, the child might have a rather sound support structure in place with atleast the father's family and probably the mother's family as well. I'd say the opposite is likely true.

That's why I kind of agree with you. Everything is kind of hinging on that Form T application. That changes the nature of the OP's application from a very hard-to-get 7 year concession visa, to a more possible parent-of-citizen-child application. If nothing else, the Home Office will just take their typical escape route and DLR the whole situation. But realistically, refusal and deportation are still very possible.

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Re: My daughter turns 10 and I am in limbo without leave

Post by adesuwa » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:50 pm

I think ouflak1 is a drama queen and full of scare tactic repeatedly contradicting her/himself

If the HO wanted to arrest, detain or deport me, they would have done so long ago. I was invited to their office twice now (When I was first served a removal notice in 2014 and once for a friendly interview about my family and tried to cajole me to sign a travel cert, which I refused to) in 2017. When I was served a removal notice, they said I did not have a daughter, this they later apologised for in an email to my local MP

Secondly when my first application was refused the HO said cited my daughter was not 7 yet, this also the FT tribunal judge also cited (before we corrected him, as my daughter was 8 ) Also in his refusal he cited he did not believe I had a true relationship with my daughter and the absence of a support letter from my ex wife, though my daughter was over 7 he further said I did not show compelling evidence and did not believe me or any of the evidence or pictures, bank statements/monthly support submitted to him

Lastly when I first applied for the FLR FP, the HO rejected it and cited its in my own interest to show my financial situation and also acknowledged that they now believe I have a relationship with my daughter and being responsible for her. Again they could have arrested me when it was rejected and they did not

The rules are very clear
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... form-flrfp
leave outside the rules on the basis of family or private life ( or a parent without leave to remain)
REQUIREMENTS
1. A parent or a carer who does not live with the child
2. Outside the normal immigration rules (hence, I dont have a status)
3. Outcome - 10 years (renewable every 2.5 years) without permanent residency for the 10 year period

If you read similar cases/outcomes, it was argued that parents of children of 7 years continuous stay should not be punished for the sins of the parents, hence the reason it was instituted in the first place


As s computer and phone apps programmer, I have made a fortune in the past and can easily do it again, for now its all about love and sacrifice for the one I love, and even if I never succeed again, at least I succeeded and loved the one whom means the world to me

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