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I believe that if you simply withdraw your HSMP application all your papers should be returned to you promptly. So why a three week delay? Where does that come from?Ladybug wrote:My boyfriend( British) and I have decided to got o my home country to get married and then I can apply for spouse visa from there, but I cant go for another 3 weeks or so, as I still have my stuff with the HSMP team.
Kay, that is all true. Slightly off topic, yet interesting question - do you know if "dependant" offshore visa can be granted to someone with previous adverse immigration history, if they unsettled spouses and children in the UK on temporary LTR?!Kayalami wrote:Overstaying not usually a problem where a return to the UK is in a category leading to settlement (CLS) - this includes a visa as the spouse of a settled person, work permit holder, HSMP etc.
Appreciate may not be what you want to hear but I concur with Chess on this one.Not much of help honestly speaking.
Your human rights have to be considered against the need to maintain UK immigration controls. Check this forum for human rights cases to include spouses of settled persons and extensive case law..message is HRA doesn't wash in a significant percentage (read majority) of cases - sorry.There is an issue of a family split, which is in violation of human rights, isn't it?
Decision based on the immigration rules taking into account all factors including the immigration history of constituent members in the application as they must - if someone has a problem and you don't want this to affect you then leave them out is the message as harsh as that may sound to you. ECO has discretion to consider circumstances pertaining to overstaying (as per my prior post) as well as fresh evidence in respect of your case. Unless I had specifics of all details then hard to judge the chances of success.And also there is no connection between someone staying in the UK who never had imm problems and their spouses applying from overseas who had them in the past.
See above. I can not stress enough that:It is daft to assume that if I had problems with imm and my wife never had it, we will both then decide to overstay again or something.
If that was the case, this would have led to the grounds for refusal of ANY offshore visa application based on relationship/marriage regardless if a sponsor is British or not because theoretically, anyone can live anywhere even on a deserted island. In my understanding anyone who has a leave to remain here (through visas, LTR, citizenship) they have the right to choose to remain in the UK as long as the permission is valid. And their spouses should also be entitled to remain with them. Tell me if I am wrong.Kayalami wrote: You have a right to be with your family (to include settled persons) but not necessarily in the UK.
Please could you let me know what are those legal impediments? And what are the exceptions? Is the waiting for the decision from the IND for 6-7 years also a legal impediment?Consequently you are free to depart the UK at any point in time (subject to no legal impediments such as a pending trial with exceptions and validity aspects of your visa) for a better destination. Let that destination's gain be the UK's loss.
Correct. Two Acts are very powerful and I would say HRA is even more powerful than others including the Terrorist Act 2000, for instance. Thats why the ministers cannot get rid of those clerics and fanatics. When it is clear that the HRA will not be violated on the basis of the "proportionality" to the clauses and articles in Immigration Act - for example when an unlawful immigrant has a spouse settled here, there will be no reason why the person should not leave and apply from abroad, as prescribed by Immigration Act. However, in the situation when the Immigration Rules clearly will not allow the return of that person to his family lawfully here, the departure of the person is not proportionate to the Article 8 of Human Rights Act.Kayalami wrote: Your human rights have to be considered against the need to maintain UK immigration controls. Check this forum for human rights cases to include spouses of settled persons and extensive case law..message is HRA doesn't wash in a significant percentage (read majority) of cases - sorry.
I am somewhat lost by this sweeping statement but note your undertandable frustration pursuant to your experiences. The face of the immigration system is changing and must do so by virtue of today's global reality primarily economic growth vis a vis appropriate labour resources. Such may not occur overnight - there is a 5 year managed migration plan seeking to address all these factors. I believe elements of implementation taking into account the various Imigration Acts already effective with more set to commence in spring 2006.Jeff Albright wrote:Thanks to all.
There is no surprise there are so many overstayers and various illegals in this country and the more stupid the system is the more there will be and the country will finally wreck itself into the chaos. Definitely not the place for me especially knowing for the fact that in reference to my situation I have done nothing wrong to this idiotic system in order to pay for it. Thats all I can say really.
Thanks for your replies again.
Please review my sentence in particular the 'not necessarily' aspect. Your family's right to be with you must be in the context of the UK's immigration system. This removes the "I have a visa/ citizenship in the UK so my spouse has the indelible right to be with me by virtue of that status" - wrong...only those with right of abode have that. Such is not transmitted unless in respect of the Immigration Acts which are put in place by a government voted for by the citizens within the remit of a distinct democratic system.Jeff Albright wrote:If that was the case, this would have led to the grounds for refusal of ANY offshore visa application based on relationship/marriage regardless if a sponsor is British or not because theoretically, anyone can live anywhere even on a deserted island. In my understanding anyone who has a leave to remain here (through visas, LTR, citizenship) they have the right to choose to remain in the UK as long as the permission is valid. And their spouses should also be entitled to remain with them. Tell me if I am wrong.
There are many to include pending legal trials .e.g. you are on HSMP and are charged with fraud which you deny - there is a trial during which your HSMP visa expires. Being a party to the trial it would be inappropriate for you to return home unless legal representation was in place and the charges were not so severe as to require your presence. Putting my criminal law hat on you are likely to be denied bail and placed in remand anyway since for it to go to court the prosecution are bound to have a strong case. I could list another dozen of the top of my head but its irrelevant to your specific situation.Jeff Albright wrote:Please could you let me know what are those legal impediments? And what are the exceptions?
In the context of your situation no - you have been free to leave the UK at any time during this waiting period.Jeff Albright wrote: Is the waiting for the decision from the IND for 6-7 years also a legal impediment?
You need to depart the UK prior to the expiry of your visa unless you apply for an extension. Departure to include where all avenues to remain in the UK e.g. final refusal at Tribunal with no leave to the court of appeal and/or judicial review has failed.Jeff Albright wrote:What are the validity aspects of the visa? If you are waiting for the decision and your visa runs out, your leave is automatically extended unless Clarke has changed it already (remember he was talking about it in regard to WP decisions)
Naturally. I certainly wish you luck. It would be interesting to hear what good if any has come out of your stay in the UK perhaps to include education, employment etc - I presume this to have improved as a minimum your points on the Oz migration matrix.Jeff Albright wrote:And you are right, I have already started preparations for the depart to a better destination where the system is more strict less flawed and more organised.
Sure.Many thanks for your time and replies.
You've lost me. HRA encompasses definitive articles. The removal issue here is based on an articale that can not be derogated from Article 3 - torture and inhuman treatment. I am unable to comment on specific cases but many of the clerics you quote have been granted asylum and/or have citizenship due to persecution from their Home Countries. Article 8 - right to family life can be taken in the context of effective UK immigration controls. This is what I refer to in my post a non starter in most spousal HRA claims.Jeff Albright wrote:Correct. Two Acts are very powerful and I would say HRA is even more powerful than others including the Terrorist Act 2000, for instance. Thats why the ministers cannot get rid of those clerics and fanatics.
As per my last sentence above.Jeff Albright wrote:When it is clear that the HRA will not be violated on the basis of the "proportionality" to the clauses and articles in Immigration Act - for example when an unlawful immigrant has a spouse settled here, there will be no reason why the person should not leave and apply from abroad, as prescribed by Immigration Act.
Sorry I don't understand - do you have an example? If it is based on your original question on LTR then in what way is derogating from the HRA article 8 not proportionate?Jeff Albright wrote:However, in the situation when the Immigration Rules clearly will not allow the return of that person to his family lawfully here, the departure of the person is not proportionate to the Article 8 of Human
Rights Act.
Sure but they are limited by case law unless they come up with something so new that the authorities are bound by the judicial system to grant leave. Again case/ situation specific.Jeff Albright wrote:The outcome of any case of this kind will entirely depend on the legal representation and the professionalism of the immigration advisor.
Antontony - Thanks for reply...antontony wrote:All you have to do to stay in the UK is to apply for FLR(O). That is even advised in the HSMP guidence.
Good luck