ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Points-based system appeals to be effectively abolished

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

Please use this section of the board if there is no specific section for your query.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

Locked
jager
Junior Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:37 pm

Points-based system appeals to be effectively abolished

Post by jager » Thu May 12, 2011 12:28 pm


geriatrix
Moderator
Posts: 24754
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 pm
Location: does it matter?

Post by geriatrix » Thu May 12, 2011 2:06 pm

Points-based system appeals to be effectively abolished
Misleading title!

For information, section 19, that the article refers to, does not remove the right of appeal as such .... but restricts applicants from introducing new evidence(s) in the appeal that were not part of the (initial) application.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

jager
Junior Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:37 pm

.

Post by jager » Thu May 12, 2011 2:16 pm

sushdmehta wrote:
Points-based system appeals to be effectively abolished
Misleading title!

For information, section 19, that the article refers to, does not remove the right of appeal as such .... but restricts applicants from introducing new evidence(s) in the appeal that were not part of the (initial) application.
That's why I titled it effectively abolished. As the post mentions, the costs and legal uncertainties involved in submitting a new application will dissuade many/most from taking that step.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 29141
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Post by vinny » Thu May 12, 2011 2:43 pm

Effectively making PBS appeals similar to ARs.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

geriatrix
Moderator
Posts: 24754
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 pm
Location: does it matter?

Post by geriatrix » Thu May 12, 2011 3:11 pm

Given that you only quote a media article (which in turn is, as yet, based on a rumour) and make no reference to the rule or the change as a result of such introduction, it is important that PBS migrants note and recognize the difference ... rather be scared by use of "effectively abolished".

"Effectively pointless / useless to appeal" (for a certain section of PBS migrants) is different from "PBS appeals to be effectively abolished" (for all PBS migrants).

In general, introduction of section 19 will mean:
1. Submitting an appeal may be "effectively useless" for those who do not meet the requirements on the day of application, and need to rely on additional new evidence(s) to win an appeal.
2. "No change", whatsoever, for those who do not need to rely on such (new) evidence(s) to win an appeal.

The point being - the right of appeal for PBS migrants is not being abolished ("effectively" or otherwise). But that only a section of migrants (point 1) may find it "pointless" to appeal, if the change is introduced.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

geriatrix
Moderator
Posts: 24754
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 pm
Location: does it matter?

Post by geriatrix » Thu May 12, 2011 3:18 pm

vinny wrote:Effectively making PBS appeals similar to ARs.
Exactly.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

geriatrix
Moderator
Posts: 24754
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 pm
Location: does it matter?

Post by geriatrix » Thu May 19, 2011 1:56 pm

Unnecessary immigration appeals to end
From next Monday, evidence submitted after a visa application has been made will not be considered.
Written ministerial statement on Section 19 of the UK Borders Act 2007
The Commencement Order will come into force on 23 May and will apply to all appeals heard for the first time against refusals of applications to remain in the UK under the Points Based System, regardless of the date that appeal was lodged. Appeals that have been part or fully-heard by the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) by this date will not be affected.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

Mk2010
Newly Registered
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:10 am
Location: London

Post by Mk2010 » Thu May 19, 2011 2:39 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Unnecessary immigration appeals to end
From next Monday, evidence submitted after a visa application has been made will not be considered.
Written ministerial statement on Section 19 of the UK Borders Act 2007
The Commencement Order will come into force on 23 May and will apply to all appeals heard for the first time against refusals of applications to remain in the UK under the Points Based System, regardless of the date that appeal was lodged. Appeals that have been part or fully-heard by the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) by this date will not be affected.
This is very alarming. I understand this currently apply to all PBS appeal.
I can't help to wonder and worry as how this may affect appeals of settlement visa particularly those application from out of the country in the near future?
Last edited by Mk2010 on Thu May 19, 2011 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aryan2013
Member of Standing
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:49 pm

Post by Aryan2013 » Thu May 19, 2011 2:56 pm

Mk2010 wrote:
sushdmehta wrote:Unnecessary immigration appeals to end
From next Monday, evidence submitted after a visa application has been made will not be considered.
Written ministerial statement on Section 19 of the UK Borders Act 2007
The Commencement Order will come into force on 23 May and will apply to all appeals heard for the first time against refusals of applications to remain in the UK under the Points Based System, regardless of the date that appeal was lodged. Appeals that have been part or fully-heard by the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) by this date will not be affected.
This is very alarming. I understand this currently apply to all PBS appeal.
I can help to wonder and worry as how this may affect appeals of settlement visa particularly those application from out of the country?
This is outrageous!!!!!!

This govt. will go in the history as most unfair and cruel of the lot :(

tier1help-london
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:57 pm

Post by tier1help-london » Thu May 19, 2011 6:50 pm

Well this is outrageous...

Dear Damian Green - Why cant you change your process and tell caseworkers to give a call to applicant if they're not satisified with the evidence. Give the applicant some time to submit new evidences to caseworker's satisfaction. An applicant paying £1000 - £2000 for his application atleast deserves a call.
But you wont -- Because your aim is to reduce immigration to tens of thousands as you have to prove yourself. This figure can only be achieved by removing economically beneficial genuine applicants for whatsoever reason.

Dear Applicants, Please note:
Any new evidence submitted at an hearing for the first time after 23 May 2011 will only be allowed if it is being used to prove, for example, that a document originally submitted was genuine, or if it is in support of grounds unrelated to the scoring of points under the points-based system.

mulderpf
Diamond Member
Posts: 1669
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:10 am
Location: London

Post by mulderpf » Thu May 19, 2011 7:57 pm

tier1help-london wrote:Well this is outrageous...

Dear Damian Green - Why cant you change your process and tell caseworkers to give a call to applicant if they're not satisified with the evidence. Give the applicant some time to submit new evidences to caseworker's satisfaction. An applicant paying £1000 - £2000 for his application atleast deserves a call.
There is a website spelling out TO THE LAST LETTER exactly what is required and what not, what is acceptable and what not; yet people should be called to say that the did not follow the instructions correctly? Why not just get applicants to apply correctly the first time using the instructions given?

It's not rocket science - you go onto a website, look at the requirements, check if you have everything and apply. You either do it right the first time, or don't do it at all...

tier1help-london
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:57 pm

Post by tier1help-london » Thu May 19, 2011 9:07 pm

mulderpf wrote:
tier1help-london wrote:Well this is outrageous...

Dear Damian Green - Why cant you change your process and tell caseworkers to give a call to applicant if they're not satisified with the evidence. Give the applicant some time to submit new evidences to caseworker's satisfaction. An applicant paying £1000 - £2000 for his application atleast deserves a call.
There is a website spelling out TO THE LAST LETTER exactly what is required and what not, what is acceptable and what not; yet people should be called to say that the did not follow the instructions correctly? Why not just get applicants to apply correctly the first time using the instructions given?

It's not rocket science - you go onto a website, look at the requirements, check if you have everything and apply. You either do it right the first time, or don't do it at all...

Well..it's not..but only when you have clear set of requirements.
for Point scoring..requirements are quite clear but other areas where applicants are mostly getting rejections is confusing. Worst thing when applicants raise queries they are not getting proper answers. Problem is UKBA is changing & publishing rules so frequently that their own employees are unaware of them. Doesnt look like you're aware of situation and applicant's pain.

And remember not every one is born smart like you think you are ;-)

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 29141
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Post by vinny » Fri May 20, 2011 2:05 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Aryan2013
Member of Standing
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:49 pm

Post by Aryan2013 » Fri May 20, 2011 6:19 pm

mulderpf wrote:
tier1help-london wrote:Well this is outrageous...

Dear Damian Green - Why cant you change your process and tell caseworkers to give a call to applicant if they're not satisified with the evidence. Give the applicant some time to submit new evidences to caseworker's satisfaction. An applicant paying £1000 - £2000 for his application atleast deserves a call.
There is a website spelling out TO THE LAST LETTER exactly what is required and what not, what is acceptable and what not; yet people should be called to say that the did not follow the instructions correctly? Why not just get applicants to apply correctly the first time using the instructions given?

It's not rocket science - you go onto a website, look at the requirements, check if you have everything and apply. You either do it right the first time, or don't do it at all...
I don't think you are aware of the different type of routes/visas!!

Apart from PBS, all other visa types are so so complex. I'll go to the extent of saying PBS as complex as well for the layman.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 29141
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Post by vinny » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:45 pm

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Locked
cron