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Visa Rules Will Raise Marriage Age From 18 To 21

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Prem
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Visa Rules Will Raise Marriage Age From 18 To 21

Post by Prem » Wed May 30, 2007 9:41 pm

Hi there

I'm new to the board as of today, and I've just been taking a look around & decided to make my first post now.

I've read the FAQs & had a good search through the whole forum, but I couldn't find anything about "Visa Rules Will Raise Marriage Age To 21". if i've missed a topic, please close this and direct me to an already open thread.

This is the article taken from the Times and its what i want to talk about, so please have a read.

"Britons sponsoring visits by overseas relatives will be fined at least £1,000 if their relatives overstay or work illegally, under new immigration proposals published yesterday.

Liam Byrne, the Immigration Minister, published a range of proposals including reducing the length of a visitors visa to three months, raising the age for a marriage visa and the creation of an official forum that will offer guidance to ministers on the impact of immigration on existing communities.

Among the proposals were further measures to ensure that foreigners do not travel to Britain unless entitled to do so.

Immigration overstayers will have their bank accounts frozen and families of overstayers will be barred from bringing in other relatives in future.

Universities and employers will be banned from bringing in people in future if foreigners they have sponsored already fail to return home.

The measures are planned as the Government prepares for a huge increase in the number of people heading for Britain. In 2005 11.8 million travellers entered Britain from outside the European Economic Area and, in 2005-2006 two million visas were granted.

Mr Byrne disclosed that movements in and out of Britain will increase by 50 per cent over the next seven years.

Britons who support a sponsored family vistor’s visa will also be expected to maintain and accommodate their family members during the visit.

Under the Government’s proposals they will also be expected to fund nonemergency medical care. All visitors will be made to take out medical insurance.

Mr Byrne said: “I think a fine of £1,000 or more will encourage sponsors to take their responsibilities seriously. We need to consult with a number of organisations about how best this can be put into effect.â€

John
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Post by John » Wed May 30, 2007 9:52 pm

My question is what will happen to genuine cases like mine?
Against the background of the Home Office losing an important case last week ... it related to Certificates of Approval to Marry ..... and amazingly still no reaction to that on the BIA website ..... I am going to stick my neck out here ... and do fully appreciate that this is just my personal opinion ... I don't think that the change from 18 to 21 for fiance(e), spouse etc visas will ever happen!

That is, if the law allows people aged 18 to get married without parental consent who are the Home Office to impose a blanket ban on the issue of fiance(e), spouse etc visas to those aged 18, 19 or 20?

Or put it another way, if they did bring in such a blanket ban then the matter would get taken to Court and just as in the recent CoA case the Home Office would lose.
John

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Post by PaperPusher » Wed May 30, 2007 10:01 pm

if they did bring in such a blanket ban then the matter would get taken to Court and just as in the recent CoA case the Home Office would lose.
But how long did the CoA case take exactly? It was quite a while after the Certificates of Approval were introduced that I heard about the Home Office losing.

But it still might not change from 18 to 21.

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Wed May 30, 2007 10:23 pm

John wrote:Or put it another way, if they did bring in such a blanket ban then the matter would get taken to Court and just as in the recent CoA case the Home Office would lose.
Not if the change is brought in as an Act of Parliament to amend the Immigration Act.

Ultimately if community pressure to change the law is strong enough, the law will change and no judge will be able to prevent it.

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Post by Jon_H » Wed May 30, 2007 10:24 pm

John wrote:
My question is what will happen to genuine cases like mine?
Against the background of the Home Office losing an important case last week ... it related to Certificates of Approval to Marry ..... and amazingly still no reaction to that on the BIA website ..... I am going to stick my neck out here ... and do fully appreciate that this is just my personal opinion ... I don't think that the change from 18 to 21 for fiance(e), spouse etc visas will ever happen!

That is, if the law allows people aged 18 to get married without parental consent who are the Home Office to impose a blanket ban on the issue of fiance(e), spouse etc visas to those aged 18, 19 or 20?

Or put it another way, if they did bring in such a blanket ban then the matter would get taken to Court and just as in the recent CoA case the Home Office would lose.
I hope you are right John, this smacks of punishing the many legitimate married or engaged couples to deal with a small number of forced marriages, Surely this is better dealt with using interviews and discretion. A one on one interview should be able to identify those who are being forced into a marriage they do not want.

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Post by JAJ » Wed May 30, 2007 10:26 pm

Jon_H wrote: I hope you are right John, this smacks of punishing the many legitimate married or engaged couples to deal with a small number of forced marriages, Surely this is better dealt with using interviews and discretion. A one on one interview should be able to identify those who are being forced into a marriage they do not want.
There is of course a broader public policy question of whether the marriage age itself should be increased to 21.

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Re: Visa Rules Will Raise Marriage Age From 18 To 21

Post by Jon_H » Wed May 30, 2007 10:27 pm

Prem wrote:Hi there

Immigration overstayers will have their bank accounts frozen and families of overstayers will be barred from bringing in other relatives in future.

Prem
I hope they are referring to sponsors here, otherwise that is really dodgy.

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Post by tvt » Wed May 30, 2007 10:27 pm

JAJ wrote:
John wrote:Or put it another way, if they did bring in such a blanket ban then the matter would get taken to Court and just as in the recent CoA case the Home Office would lose.
Not if the change is brought in as an Act of Parliament to amend the Immigration Act.

Ultimately if community pressure to change the law is strong enough, the law will change and no judge will be able to prevent it.
Not necessarily so; the Human Rights Act (esp. the article on right to family life) overrides any incompatible piece of legislation (inc. acts of parliament).
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Post by Jon_H » Wed May 30, 2007 10:30 pm

JAJ wrote:
Jon_H wrote: I hope you are right John, this smacks of punishing the many legitimate married or engaged couples to deal with a small number of forced marriages, Surely this is better dealt with using interviews and discretion. A one on one interview should be able to identify those who are being forced into a marriage they do not want.
There is of course a broader public policy question of whether the marriage age itself should be increased to 21.
No Chance. Even if this was a question within the remit of our Government it would and should have nothing whatsoever to do with Immigration.

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Post by JAJ » Wed May 30, 2007 10:33 pm

tvt wrote:Not necessarily so; the Human Rights Act (esp. the article on right to family life) overrides any incompatible piece of legislation (inc. acts of parliament).
Firstly, Parliament can exempt any piece of legislation from that Act if it so desires.

Secondly, a very basic principle of British law is that no Parliament can bind its successors. The Human Rights Act could be repealed by Parliament anytime.

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Post by JAJ » Wed May 30, 2007 10:34 pm

Jon_H wrote: No Chance. Even if this was a question within the remit of our Government it would and should have nothing whatsoever to do with Immigration.
The marriage age is within Parliament's jurisdiction - who else should decide fundamental questions like this?

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Post by jes2jes » Thu May 31, 2007 10:50 am

John wrote:
My question is what will happen to genuine cases like mine?
Against the background of the Home Office losing an important case last week ... it related to Certificates of Approval to Marry ..... and amazingly still no reaction to that on the BIA website ..... I am going to stick my neck out here ... and do fully appreciate that this is just my personal opinion ... I don't think that the change from 18 to 21 for fiance(e), spouse etc visas will ever happen!

That is, if the law allows people aged 18 to get married without parental consent who are the Home Office to impose a blanket ban on the issue of fiance(e), spouse etc visas to those aged 18, 19 or 20?

Or put it another way, if they did bring in such a blanket ban then the matter would get taken to Court and just as in the recent CoA case the Home Office would lose.
John, can you please provide a link to this case or source (highlighted text I meant).
Thanks
Praise The Lord!!!!

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Post by SYH » Thu May 31, 2007 11:32 am

By the time they raise it you will be 21 anyway so I wouldn't bother worrying about something. There are bigger fish to fry such as the HSMP move from 4 to 5 year consqeuences

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Post by Jon_H » Thu May 31, 2007 12:07 pm

JAJ wrote:
Jon_H wrote: No Chance. Even if this was a question within the remit of our Government it would and should have nothing whatsoever to do with Immigration.
The marriage age is within Parliament's jurisdiction - who else should decide fundamental questions like this?
What possible justification could they have? Very very unlikely to waste Parliamentary time.

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Post by John » Thu May 31, 2007 1:16 pm

John, can you please provide a link to this case or source (highlighted text I meant).
See this BBC News Story.
John

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Post by jes2jes » Thu May 31, 2007 2:13 pm

Thanks for this. So, do people who are not 'settled' still need permission to marry in the light of recent cases?
Praise The Lord!!!!

John
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Post by John » Thu May 31, 2007 2:48 pm

do people who are not 'settled' still need permission to marry in the light of recent cases?
It is not as easy as settled or not settled. Quite a number of people who are not settled in the UK can get married without requiring a CoA. In particular those holding a fiancé(e) visa or a Wedding Visitor visa do not need to obtain a CoA.

Is there new guidance on the BIA website following the loss of the case in the Court of Appeal last week? No, nothing new at all, so to answer your question, yes it is still necessary for many non settled persons to get a CoA before getting married in the UK. But the exemption for Church of England marriages remains.

I just express amazement that the Home Office has not reacted to the Court of Appeal decision last week ... not even putting out a press release saying that they are appealing further to the House of Lords (if that is indeed what they intend to do).
John

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Post by jes2jes » Thu May 31, 2007 3:08 pm

In particular those holding a fiancé(e) visa or a Wedding Visitor visa do not need to obtain a CoA.
John, thanks for this. I know about this already but I was thinking if the courts have ruled this has illegal then, doesn't it make the rules concerning COA null and void? Or do they need a different ruling to implement that?
I just express amazement that the Home Office has not reacted to the Court of Appeal decision last week .
You just have to know that, the HO do not respond to judgements not in their favour until such times that they have successfully sought some sought of injunction or appeal. Lets wait and see what happens in the next few days if they would indeed post something. I might be wrong :roll:
Praise The Lord!!!!

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Post by Smit » Thu May 31, 2007 7:03 pm

I am inclined to agree with John regarding raising of the marriage age to 21 for immigration purposes.

If this requirement is introduced by simply amending the immigration rules, it is bound to be challenged successfully in the courts because the minimum age for marriage without the consent of a parent(s) or guardian under the Marriage Act 1949, as amended by the Family Law Act 1969, is 18 years.

The Home Office would need to secure passing the proposed requirement as primary legislation i.e via an Act of Parliament and this would take a long long time.

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Post by JAJ » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:27 am

Smit wrote:If this requirement is introduced by simply amending the immigration rules, it is bound to be challenged successfully in the courts because the minimum age for marriage without the consent of a parent(s) or guardian under the Marriage Act 1949, as amended by the Family Law Act 1969, is 18 years.
I do not see why that in itself would render a change to the Immigration Rules unlawful. It is already the case that a legal marriage does not create an automatic entitlement to a spouse visa.
The Home Office would need to secure passing the proposed requirement as primary legislation i.e via an Act of Parliament and this would take a long long time.
Could be done in a few days if given sufficient priority.

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