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Be prepared for an uphill battle.brucem wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:06 pmHi,
I'll cut right to the chaise: I visited Sharm El-Sheikh (Egypt) a few months ago on holiday and ended up meeting someone. He lives in Egypt but was also holidaying in Sharm El-Sheikh when we met. Our connection was so strong that we both extended our stay in Sharm El-Sheikh, he even booked in at the same hotel as me. We combined most of our planned holiday activities as well. He then asked me to extend my stay in Egypt and go back with him to his home town. I ended up staying two weeks with him at his home and then returned to the UK. Before I left we promised to remain commited to each other and that we will plan a visit soon so that we can spend more time together to see where this relationship can go.
It has now been one month since I returned to the UK and being apart from each other is becoming painful. I have now invited him to visit the UK and will sponsor his stay, pay for his return flight and also provide support and maintenance. I work for a very large and respected auditing company in the UK. I am on a TIer 2 General and hold a senior position with the firm. I have a spotless immigration history and have been in the UK now for nearly 5 years. I have my own 1 bedroom apartment, have a 5 digit balance in the bank and of course a steady income. In summary, I'm the perfect sponsor.
The issue is this: he is 28 years old and unemployed. He has never travelled outside of Egypt before and thus had to apply for a passport which he received this week. He is dependant on his cousin which supports him financially and emotionally. They grew up together and his mother basically raised his cousin. He lives with his cousin in a nice 2bedroom house which his cousin's father own and therefore they pay no rent. They have lived there for over 5 years. My friend generally takes care of the household chores and also takes care of the dog who lives indoors. Its a husky dog so having someone at home during the day is important as these kind dont dont fare well being alone all day. My friend also had his bank account re-activated so that his cousin can transfer him spending money which he will use during his visit. Of course I dont expect him to pay for anything as I am in a position to provide him with everything he needs.
My friend does own two cars: he lend one of the cars to his brother and the other one he drives. Its a very nice car, a BMW which he also modified. He is a motorvehicle enthusiast and also started a facebook group in 2015 for likeminded people in Egypt, which is today one of the largest groups of this kind in Egypt with over 50,000 members which he administrates. In the past he has arranged meetups and even held events. This is a hobby and his car is his pride and joy.
My friend and his cousin also looks after his mom, but she has her own home which she owns. She also receives life insurance income from her late husband, but this isnt enough so they sometimes give her money in the form of cash. She is emotionally dependant on both him and his cousin. My cousin also has a brother which she depends on financially and emotionally..
The main purpose of the visit is for him to come and see me. With LOndon being in lockdown there is not much we can do in terms of siteseeing etc, so we plan to say at home, play online games and generally just enjoy each others company. Being unemployed makes it easy for him to come and visit me for a few months and in return this keeps me sane as being home alone during a lockdown is not good for anyone's health, let alone if you missing someone you have recently fell in love with.
So that's the gist of it. I have been following the guidelines in a very nice online article called "
The Ultimate UK Visitor Visa Guidance for 2020" and also the Visitors Guidelines PDF provieded by the home office. I am handling most of the visa application and also typing his cover letter as his english writing is not the best (its not bad but mine is better).
The application will look somethign like this:
6 bank statements
proof of income (payslips)
Proof of ID
proof of address (and potentially proof that his dad owns the house)
Letter of support (that my friend is dependant on him and that he will provide spending money into my friends recently activated account).
bank statements (which wont contain much as its only been re-activated a week ago)
proof of ownership for the two cars (including photos).
Proof that he runs and administrates the online group and also proof that he occasionally hosts events.
Household: photos of the house, photos of duke in the house with them
proof of address, including pictures of house to show that its addiquite to support him.
Proof of income (payslips) and letter from employer.
6 months bankstatements
Passport & Tier 2 permit incl Copies of all pages of passport.
Written undertaking that I will support and maintain him.
Letter of support
proof of when, how and where we met.
Proof of where we stayed while on holiday, that he changed his hotel to mine,
Proof that I visited his home town and stayed with him for 2 weeks,
Proof that we have been communicating non-stop ever since.
Is there anything I missed or anything that you think I should add? Also, I welcome personal opinions on whether all of this sounds believable on face value? Of course everything I stated is true and I will provide all the supporting documents to back up every statement I made. I know the home office has a mindset of being sceptical.
@ALKB: Thank you for painting this picture for me, in all honestly I never say it in this way. But I can completely understand why someone would think this. Allow me to add more detail and then you can tell me if the additional information helps paint a better picture?Look at it from the ECO's perspective: a young, unemployed man, whose main task in daily life is to dogsit, yet somehow has enough money to maintain a luxury car plus one more and can afford several weeks holiday in Sharm-el-Sheikh.
The BMW (older model) he purchased 2nd hand from the money he received when his dad died. The 2nd car (VW Polo) is a 1999 model. In the UK it would be considered scrap metal. They are by no means "luxuary cars". His BMW (and his Computer) is really his only pride possessions. He is dependant on his cousin who paid for the holiday in Sharm-el-Sheikh. His cousin received a bonus in december (as can be seen on his payslip, I checked) and this allowed them to stay in Sharm-El-Sheikh for 8 nights. Also, I know where they stayed and know that the rooms were very very cheap.yet somehow has enough money to maintain a luxury car plus one more and can afford several weeks holiday in Sharm-el-Sheikh.
His bank account was made dormant due to inactivity. Once re-activated all his prior history (deposits/withdrawels) are available on the account. Seeing as he has been unemployed and had no more money in the account he had no use for it. I dont see a problem with this. The fact that he re-activated the account now in order for his cousin to deposit spending money does seems reasonable to me. I dont think he is going to have a lot of spending money, I would say 300-400GBP at most.1 week for banking history is suspicious.
I understand. Its obvious that I have a lot more going for me than what he does and one would beg the question what exactly is it that he has to offer me? But we all know these things aren't that simple...and in all honestly I dont see the problem in wanting to experiece a little bit of happiness. He is unemployed so able to come visit me, and I am employed and able to sponsor his trip. We both get some happiness out of it and in the end we return to being misserable but at least for 1.5 months we were happy. Of course, after that it begins all over again. I dont want to think about the long term struggles ahead, like partner visas etc...My stay in the UK is temporary as it is (Tier 2), being an Australian Citizen and South African we do have options for living together in the future if its not going to be the UK, but again, its WAAAY to early to think about that stuff and in all honesty im not even sure thats what I want, but hte only way to find out is to spend more time with him which is exactly what we are trying to do.Other than immigration things. I am Arab, not from Egypt, but I know Egypt and Sharm el Sheikh where I used to dive back in the days. As you seem acquainted with our culture, let me be frank with you. The time in Egypt was fun and I am happy for you. Especially with the lockdown in the UK, having some fun abroad, meeting people and seeing places is good for mental health. I don't want to hurt your feelings but if you were my sister, I would tell you stop while you can. No damage has been done to your life at this point in time. You have your life in London, your Tier 2, you work for a serious auditing company. There are 4 big ones. If you are there in a senior capacity, it means your career is doing very well. You don't need to get involved more than what you did in a social, economic and cultural situations you know nothing about.
The idea was not to discourage you, but to give you a more realistic viewpoint of both the circumstance and of what to expect.brucem wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:36 amI feel very sad that I clearly have done a really bad job at explaining the situation on paper as can be seen by the comments and no doubt the ECO will also see it in this way. I think sometimes people who have pure intent find it hard to see the dark side of things. I'm not feeling sorry for myself but I am super dissapointed and feel really discouraged now.
PS: I'm a guy...so we are in a romantic gay relationship, which probably doesn't change much but I guess less likely to look like your typical bezness case.Zerubbabel wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:18 pmHello,
I don't know where to start.
From the visa point of view, this profile looks very typical for refused applications. I don't recommend he tries as the refusal seems nearly certain here. One thing with visas, is that you don't want to have refusals because they will always create a negative bias against any application lodged in the future. Therefore, it's always a good idea to apply only when there are realistic chances of getting a visa.
Your friend doesn't work, but still he owns 2 cars including a BMW. This means 2 things to any Home Office employee:
- He works cash in hand and doesn't declare to avoid paying taxes (very common in the area)
- He is involved in some illegal trade/business where everything is in cash
1 week for banking history is suspicious.
Attachment to Egypt is nil. A man of his age, needs to show a stable job, a family (wife + children) and some property in order to stand reasonable chances to get a visitor visa.
You can't demonstrate attachment to home country with a photo of 2 cars, a dog and a house where you are allowed to have a bed for free + 1 week banking history. Despite his dedication to the Facebook group, this cannot constitute an incentive to return to Egypt and the group can be managed from anywhere.
He will most certainly get a refusal under paragraph 4.2+
Other than immigration things. I am Arab, not from Egypt, but I know Egypt and Sharm el Sheikh where I used to dive back in the days. As you seem acquainted with our culture, let me be frank with you. The time in Egypt was fun and I am happy for you. Especially with the lockdown in the UK, having some fun abroad, meeting people and seeing places is good for mental health. I don't want to hurt your feelings but if you were my sister, I would tell you stop while you can. No damage has been done to your life at this point in time. You have your life in London, your Tier 2, you work for a serious auditing company. There are 4 big ones. If you are there in a senior capacity, it means your career is doing very well. You don't need to get involved more than what you did in a social, economic and cultural situations you know nothing about.
I have many of these stories and I don't know a single one that ended up well. If yours ends up well, it will be a miracle.
Hi @secret.simon,secret.simon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:48 amThe idea was not to discourage you, but to give you a more realistic viewpoint of both the circumstance and of what to expect.brucem wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:36 amI feel very sad that I clearly have done a really bad job at explaining the situation on paper as can be seen by the comments and no doubt the ECO will also see it in this way. I think sometimes people who have pure intent find it hard to see the dark side of things. I'm not feeling sorry for myself but I am super dissapointed and feel really discouraged now.
Think about it this way. We are (or have been) migrants ourselves and are advising caution based on our reading of your text, the circumstances you have described and previous experiences of people familiar to us. We are sympathetic towards you.
Imagine how it would read/sound to an Entry Clearance Officer who goes through mounds of similar applications regularly and has become either weary or cynical (or both) of them. The Reject stamp & bin beckons and the Reject letter is probably writing itself before they have finished reading the application.
If you really plan to get him to travel to the UK, you'd have to do much better at messaging the circumstances and story.
Alternatively keep in mind that you can always meet with him in Egypt, other Maghreb countries (like Tunisia) or other Mediterranean and European countries who may have a more relaxed approach to visas for Egyptian citizens.
European Parliamentary question and answer.Love scams and ‘bezness’
Yes, bezness has already been mentioned and like I said, does not apply here. So lets move on as now matter how much you try and harp on this "bezness" thing it does not apply in my case.
Did you mean the Former British Ambassador to Lebanon’s article?brucem wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:23 amYes, it appears to me that all of you are right...there is simply no way in hell that this application will be approved....and the reason is not because of HIM or ME but simply because of how this corrupt system works. Don't believe me...well google "Top Secret …. how to get a UK Visa" and read the comments at the bottom of the article...I am truly shocked at what I have just discovered...I wish I discovered this before I spent a week on putting together an application which is likely not even going to receive 10 seconds of consideration.
Sorry, I didn't know you are a man, I just assumed. But the concept is still the same.The UK does not welcome poor, unemployed people...
Indeed...but I was not referring to the article but rather the hundreds of comments exposing the lies in the article. If you read the comments you will see that changes of getting a visit visa approved when you are sponsoring a friend, a sister or parent is NIL, no matter how perfect your application. YOu will see in the comments that some people submitted applications which looked perfect on paper yet all of them were still rejected. Reasons for visits which are legit, like parents attending their childs wedding when the parents have jobs, a house and more back home, ALL rejected.vinny wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:41 amDid you mean the Former British Ambassador to Lebanon’s article?brucem wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:23 amYes, it appears to me that all of you are right...there is simply no way in hell that this application will be approved....and the reason is not because of HIM or ME but simply because of how this corrupt system works. Don't believe me...well google "Top Secret …. how to get a UK Visa" and read the comments at the bottom of the article...I am truly shocked at what I have just discovered...I wish I discovered this before I spent a week on putting together an application which is likely not even going to receive 10 seconds of consideration.
Six month visitor visas aren't really high enough in fees to be a money maker, processing application does actually incur a cost.brucem wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:23 am
It seems to me that the UKBA process is nothing more than a bureaucratic money making scam. So I guess the UK does not welcome people who have no job and no income, you know, like everyone who just finished school, or even kids that are still in school...better yet, what about students who are currrently enrolled and studying in their home country?