Girlfriend Overstayed

I would be grateful if anyone could provide any assistance or advice on an immigration problem I currently have. Apologies for this being quite a long post but it’s all quite relevant.

My girlfriend is from Thailand. She came to England in February 2004 on a 2 year working visa, and we met in May 2005.

Since June 2005 we have lived together as a couple at my home.

In February 2006, when her visa was due for renewal, she told me that she had got an additional two years, which would have then taken her up to February 2008.

In the interim she had approximately 4 casual ‘cash in hand’ type jobs that never seemed to last that long.

In May 2006 I proposed that we got married and she accepted, and we set the wheels in motion, although we never got around to finalising plans. Our relationship, however, stayed very much intact.

At the end of 2007, after one or two things had made me a little suspicious over time, we had a conversation in which she admitted that she was living in the UK illegally and that, in February 2006 she had actually been refused an extension to her visa, and that telling me that she had got an extension was not true. There were some very good reasons why she would do this (I had been very ill and needed her moral support for one example) but it was a devastating blow for me to discover this at such a late stage.

We discussed the matter together and rightly agreed that she should return to Thailand and apply for a visa legitimately. This she did in April 2008.

However, because she was here illegally and didn’t have a passport in her possession, she had borrowed a passport and attempted to leave the country using that. She was apprehended at the airport by immigration officials, questioned, and then formally deported. Also, in panic, she did not give my address as the one where she had been staying.

In trying to rectify a 2 year old mistake she has compounded it by making another.

To make things more difficult still, I was made redundant from my job in April 2008 also.

So this brings us up to present day.

I can say this quite honestly that we love each other very much and want to spend our lives together. She has integrated herself into the community here exceptionally well, shares my interests, and loves my family as they love her. We have spoken every day since she returned to Thailand last month and we are both truly heartbroken by our current situation.

Regarding her chances of returning to England, it would seem that the only possible option might be a spouses visa, and this is where my question lies.

Given everything that has gone before, have we got even the slightest chance?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Mr Bear wrote: However, because she was here illegally and didn’t have a passport in her possession, she had borrowed a passport and attempted to leave the country using that. She was apprehended at the airport by immigration officials, questioned, and then formally deported. Also, in panic, she did not give my address as the one where she had been staying.

Unfortunately, using deception, previously breaching the UK's immigration laws and being formally deported may result in a ten year ban.

reading this breaks my heart and almost brought me to tears (maybe i'm just hopelessly emotional).

It's such a shame that she was removed. Given the new rules, i'm thinking it would be difficult but not impossible. Your best bet might be to forge ahead with the spousal visa application and if refused, you appeal on human rights article 8 grounds.

I think your case is similar to that of IRYNA. I do pray that you succeed eventually. This new rule is very cruel indeed.

Stay strong.

Mr Bear wrote:I would be grateful if anyone could provide any assistance or advice on an immigration problem I currently have. Apologies for this being quite a long post but it’s all quite relevant.

My girlfriend is from Thailand. She came to England in February 2004 on a 2 year working visa, and we met in May 2005.

Since June 2005 we have lived together as a couple at my home.

In February 2006, when her visa was due for renewal, she told me that she had got an additional two years, which would have then taken her up to February 2008.

In the interim she had approximately 4 casual ‘cash in hand’ type jobs that never seemed to last that long.

In May 2006 I proposed that we got married and she accepted, and we set the wheels in motion, although we never got around to finalising plans. Our relationship, however, stayed very much intact.

At the end of 2007, after one or two things had made me a little suspicious over time, we had a conversation in which she admitted that she was living in the UK illegally and that, in February 2006 she had actually been refused an extension to her visa, and that telling me that she had got an extension was not true. There were some very good reasons why she would do this (I had been very ill and needed her moral support for one example) but it was a devastating blow for me to discover this at such a late stage.

We discussed the matter together and rightly agreed that she should return to Thailand and apply for a visa legitimately. This she did in April 2008.

However, because she was here illegally and didn’t have a passport in her possession, she had borrowed a passport and attempted to leave the country using that. She was apprehended at the airport by immigration officials, questioned, and then formally deported. Also, in panic, she did not give my address as the one where she had been staying.

In trying to rectify a 2 year old mistake she has compounded it by making another.

To make things more difficult still, I was made redundant from my job in April 2008 also.

So this brings us up to present day.

I can say this quite honestly that we love each other very much and want to spend our lives together. She has integrated herself into the community here exceptionally well, shares my interests, and loves my family as they love her. We have spoken every day since she returned to Thailand last month and we are both truly heartbroken by our current situation.

Regarding her chances of returning to England, it would seem that the only possible option might be a spouses visa, and this is where my question lies.

Given everything that has gone before, have we got even the slightest chance?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Mr Bear wrote:However, because she was here illegally and didn’t have a passport in her possession, she had borrowed a passport and attempted to leave the country using that. She was apprehended at the airport by immigration officials, questioned, and then formally deported. Also, in panic, she did not give my address as the one where she had been staying.

Ok, it would appear that I have got it slightly wrong.

Yes, she did go to the airport with a borrowed passport but spotted what she thought were immigration officials. She approached them and confessed to being an overstayer with a valid flight ticket, but never actually showed them the passport.

They took her to a room, checked her details, then sent her to sit with a lot of other people who had also overstayed.

After about 30 minutes they then told her to get on the plane.

She was given a paper that I have now had sight of. It is headed 'Notice to a Person Liable to Removal'. It then goes on with a tick in the box for 'a person subject to administrative removal in accordance with section 10 of the Immigration and Asylum Act'.

I was correct in my statement that she did not give my address when being questioned.

So, at this point, neither of us are totally sure whether this actually means she has been deported. And again, not totally sure whether she has actually used any deception.

She was not fingerprinted, photographed or DNA tested.

Any further advice or info would be much appreciated.

In that case there is a lot of hope for her return!

All she was issued with I suppose, was an IS151A which means if she applies for the visa before the 1st of October, she shouldn't be banned for overstaying. I think you should get your skates on and apply asap (provided you have all documents intact of course).

There are a good number of threads that would give you a good idea of documents which needs to be submitted to support your application. Betterstill, you might have John come along and offer some advise (he's very good) or Vinny to point you in the right direction.

In the meantime, exhale...

Mr Bear wrote:

Mr Bear wrote:However, because she was here illegally and didn’t have a passport in her possession, she had borrowed a passport and attempted to leave the country using that. She was apprehended at the airport by immigration officials, questioned, and then formally deported. Also, in panic, she did not give my address as the one where she had been staying.

Ok, it would appear that I have got it slightly wrong.

Yes, she did go to the airport with a borrowed passport but spotted what she thought were immigration officials. She approached them and confessed to being an overstayer with a valid flight ticket, but never actually showed them the passport.

They took her to a room, checked her details, then sent her to sit with a lot of other people who had also overstayed.

After about 30 minutes they then told her to get on the plane.

She was given a paper that I have now had sight of. It is headed 'Notice to a Person Liable to Removal'. It then goes on with a tick in the box for 'a person subject to administrative removal in accordance with section 10 of the Immigration and Asylum Act'.

I was correct in my statement that she did not give my address when being questioned.

So, at this point, neither of us are totally sure whether this actually means she has been deported. And again, not totally sure whether she has actually used any deception.

She was not fingerprinted, photographed or DNA tested.

Any further advice or info would be much appreciated.

Twin wrote:All she was issued with I suppose, was an IS151A which means if she applies for the visa before the 1st of October, she shouldn't be banned for overstaying.

Yes, it was an IS151A.

Mr Bear wrote:

Twin wrote:All she was issued with I suppose, was an IS151A which means if she applies for the visa before the 1st of October, she shouldn't be banned for overstaying.

Yes, it was an IS151A.

She does not need to apply for the visa by 1 October - that is just the last date of the connsession applies to voluntary leavers. See below.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/chapte ... 0seventeen

Some words of warning.

The version of events does not quite ring true.

The immigration officer would have almost certainly have checked the travel documents. I know there is rash of individuals leaving the country to gain from the concession and many are approaching the IO's to get proof of exit. However it would have to be a very sloppy IO not to check the travel document.

If the immigration officer stamped up the false passport or has written IS151A on it, this means they did check the details on the passport to the system and will know it did not match up with her name. This assumes she gave the correct name?

If she gave her correct name but is noted for carrying a false passport there is every chance she will be banned for 10 years. The IO will not care that she had a false passport - that would be her problem on arrival in Thailand. But there is every chance they logged the passport as false on the UK system. Before you ask - No they would not have told your gf of the implications.

The attitude is get them gone – their problem on attempting to return.

Is the IS151A in the name of your gf or the name of the false passport? If in her own name you are potentially in the concession zone. If the passport was examined by immigration there is a good chance she will be hammered on the system without her knowledge.

The whole truth and nothing but the truth will be required. If you travel to Thailand to marry to find out she is banned for ten years when you apply for the spouse visa……..

Frontier Mole wrote:If the immigration officer stamped up the false passport or has written IS151A on it, this means they did check the details on the passport to the system and will know it did not match up with her name. This assumes she gave the correct name?

If she gave her correct name but is noted for carrying a false passport there is every chance she will be banned for 10 years.

Is the IS151A in the name of your gf or the name of the false passport? If in her own name you are potentially in the concession zone. If the passport was examined by immigration there is a good chance she will be hammered on the system without her knowledge.

The whole truth and nothing but the truth will be required. If you travel to Thailand to marry to find out she is banned for ten years when you apply for the spouse visa……..

It appears that no Immigration Officials even saw the passport, when she saw them she decided against using it at all. The name on the IS151A is definitely my girlfriends name (I have seen it) and it gives the correct date also.

i think the mistake she made is using someone s else passport (thats deception)overtstaying is not a big deal but deception it is a 10 year ban
in my opinion get married and give it a try in the mebassy and see what happens , if they aplied 10 year ban , the only solution , is that you move to an other European country and she needs to apply for family pemit visa this way you won t be a part for long
10 years a part is too long

mr bear , i just read your last comment : she didn t use an other passport but used her own travel document
in this case , she has a lot of chances to return to UK
on a settlement visa

Is the IS151A in the name of your gf or the name of the false passport? If in her own name you are potentially in the concession zone. If the passport was examined by immigration there is a good chance she will be hammered on the system without her knowledge.

Do not want to be cynical but she has lied before. She could have been extremely lucky and the IO did not examine her passport. My advice is for her to do a subject access request with UKBA to see what her records actually state. That way you can be sure of where you stand. If no mention of false passport then you will have a clear run at the spouse visa. Still need to meet all the other visa requirements etc etc.

Wait a month or so before you do the SAR to allow paperwork to catch up with the system.

So, to bring this story back up to date.

Firstly, may I thank everybody who has contributed so far, it is very much appreciated.

Secondly, please disregard the aspect of the false passport. Yes, she did consider using one, but eventually (rather wisely) chose not to even take it into the airport. Also, I am not too concerned that she didn’t give my address when questioned as the Home Office would have had no record of her living at my address and she was just trying to give the address that matched their records.

Since I last posted on this thread about 6 weeks ago, we decided that firstly I needed to find a job, after which I would travel to Thailand, marry, then apply for a settlement visa. This, as I understand it, would have been for a 2 year period initially.

However, looking for a job when your head’s in bits isn’t particularly easy and I am not back in work yet.
It also doesn’t go down particularly well at interviews when you have to tell them the story in order to justify why you can’t start for a few weeks, despite not presently being working!

So, I am now of the opinion that it might be best to apply for a 6 month spouse’s visa, and think this should now be done sooner rather than later.

Although I am not working, my cash flow is sufficient to cover our living expenses for 6 months minimum.

I would appreciate any thoughts on the above, and also, on the several questions below that I would like some advice on.

1) Type of Visa
I stated above my thoughts about now applying for a visa prior to getting married. It would appear that there are two types of visa for unmarried partners - VAF1 (visit for marriage) and VAF4 (settlement - unmarried partner). The fees are £65 and £515 respectively.
I was previously of the opinion that settlement visas were only available for married partners but it would appear not.
However, the VAF4 requires my employment and income details whereas the VAF1 does not. It only appears to require employment details of my partner and how she will cover her living expenses during her stay in England.
Would we, therefore, be wise in applying for the VAF1 initially, get married once she is in the country, and apply for the VAF4 after I am back in employment?

2) State Benefits / Public Funds
Since being made redundant I have not claimed any state benefits whatsoever despite potentially being eligible, as I believed that this would prejudice my girlfriend’s visa application. Am I correct in this assumption or should I be claiming for what I am entitled to?

3) Working Illegally
Since my girlfriends last visa expired in early 2006 she has had a few temporary (cash paid) jobs in England.
Obviously, when interviewed for her visa I would want her to be 100% honest and transparent, and , therefore, declare that she has worked sporadically during the subsequent 2 years if asked.
Is this the wisest course of action or is it likely to jeopardise her application further?

4) Interviews and Documentation
At present my girlfriend is in Thailand, I am in England. I have much paperwork here that I believe supports our case but she has her essential documents with her.
I would like to participate in the interview process but understand that the application interview will take place in Thailand. In the event that it is rejected the appeal will only be heard in England.
I am feeling unsure about this process as it looks as though we will not be able to be interviewed together at any part of the process (or even interviewed separately for the same application) unless I travel to Thailand for the first part (which due to seeking employment isn‘t very practical), and the original documentation will never all be in the same place at the same time.
What would you recommend on this?

5) The Amnesty
A lot of information that I have read seems contradictory, although I have been advised on here previously that there is an amnesty in place regarding overstayers providing that she left the country after 17th March 2008, which she did.
Therefore would the following paragraph on Entry Clearance Guidance still be valid or would this be over-ridden?

Where the above conditions are met, applications must be refused for the following periods from the date the applicant left the UK:
1 year if they left the UK voluntarily, and not at public expense

6) Advice
Despite having taken in as much information as I can, I am still very much an amateur in this field and would ideally like some professional advice and assistance in completing the application form itself and proceeding with any subsequent appeal.
If anyone can recommend somewhere (reputable) that will provide this service, preferably without charging much of a fee, that would again be very much appreciated.

Finally, I know this is a long post, and thankyou very much for taking the time to read through it. Your comments would be very welcome.

Mr Bear

well i am no export but i ll try to answer your questions and hope some of the senior members here takes time in giving you a sound advice

1- in my opinion , it is much beter for you to get married in Thailland then apply for settlement visa Vaf4

2-it is a positive thing that you don t claim any state benefit as those assholes in the embassy as soon as they snif the word benefit they refuse without even checking all the documents

3-your girlfriend worked temporary , in my opinion it s better to be honest , sure they must asked her in the exit , they asked me this question and i told them i worked temporary and i am sure these info is kept in their database which the ECO will have access to compare and verify any lies or contradictions
also what will be a good thing to do is to request a SAR , subject Access Request under the freedom of the information act so that you have a clear idea what sort of info they are holding there

4-my advice mate , be well prepared , any documents , originals that girlfriend have keep copies a lot of them , keep a file of all the documents you ll send with your application because in case of refusal the copies will be very useful to take with to the court of ppeal AIT
sometimes the copies save the time as the judge doesn t bother waiting for the bundle and will check the copies you provide

5- the amnesty,? the 6 months is not an amnesty it is just a
concession with alot of conditions , in my opinion , it is better to leave during these 6 months as from the 1st Octobre onward it is going to be much difficult for overstayers and one of the questions the ECO will be singing in the interviews, why you didn t leave during the 6 months concession

6- filling the application , in my case i am plnning to fill it myself , i read alot of horror stories about visa export destroying people s chances
you know your situation more than an immigration adviser
so my opinion do it yourself , be honest , get the SAR and make sure you include all the documents plus copies
if they refuse be prepared for an appeal and the good news is most cases in the appeal are successful the only hard bit is the waiting game and the stress of waiting and being appart , but it is worth it to put everything through the legal channels

good luck mate and just read these forums ,

Unfortunately, she may not switch to FLR(M) after marriage when on a visit for marriage visa, unlike Fiancé(e) visa holders.

If you decide to marry in Thailand, see also General Guidance for British Nations wishing to marry in Thailand and Guidance for British Nationals Wishing to Marry in Thailand.

Guidance - Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4) and 13.5 - Spouses/civil partners and how they qualify and 13.14 - Unmarried (i.e. opposite sex) and same-sex partners and how they qualify.

See also 9.2 - Public funds.

Note that:

What will happen when I make my application?

If you have been granted entry clearance as a husband, wife, civil partner, or unmarried or same-sex partner, you will need to enter the UK within 28 days of the start date shown on your visa. You should tell the Entry Clearance Officer the exact date on which you will be travelling before your visa is issued. (You can ask for it to be post-dated for up to three months if you do not plan to travel immediately).

How do I qualify to join my husband, wife or civil partner in the UK?

The UK Border Agency will deal with your application to stay permanently in the UK. Shortly before the end of your probationary two years Leave to Enter (LTE) period you will need to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). When you do this you will have to provide at least 20 letters and other documents addressed to you and your partner or spouse at the same address, as evidence that you have been living together during the past two years. Examples of documentation to provide are listed on the UK Border Agency website: Form SET (M) and guidance notes.