HSMP - Civil Union

Hi:

I'm in a bi-national relationship, and have a New Zealand civil union with my partner that we just completed earlier this month.

I am planning to settle in the UK in June, on an HSMP visa, for which I already have EC approved (from the US).

My partner just had his interview at the Tokyo Consulate as he is a Japan resident, and is required to do his application there. We showed proof of Civil Union, all of my HSMP paperwork, employment references, evidence of job search in the UK, temporary housing, emails and phone records, photos together, etc.

We have been seeing eachother for about a year, and spent the last 6 months of 2005 living together in the US. We had to look elsewhere, however, when my partner could not get a US visa. Actually, the fact that we are in a relationship demonstrates to the US government that he intends to stay in the US, and they assume that he will violate his visa term because of this.

Anyway, to the point.. At the conclusion of the interview, the Consulate official said that everything was okay in our documentation and evidence, except that we could not show that we had lived together for 2 years. She returned all the documents, except the passport, and said they will let us know.

My question is, does the 2 year rule apply for Civil Unions? I had thought I researched everything thoroughly, on this website, and the UK government immigration sites, but now I'm not so sure.

Should I be worried? Also, if they do deny the visa for that reason, should I appeal? I'm trying not to be paranoid, since I know this is new for them, but now I'm thinking that I might have misread or misinterpreted something.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

UKbound wrote:Hi:

I'm in a bi-national relationship, and have a New Zealand civil union with my partner that we just completed earlier this month.

I am planning to settle in the UK in June, on an HSMP visa, for which I already have EC approved (from the US).

My partner just had his interview at the Tokyo Consulate as he is a Japan resident, and is required to do his application there. We showed proof of Civil Union, all of my HSMP paperwork, employment references, evidence of job search in the UK, temporary housing, emails and phone records, photos together, etc.

We have been seeing eachother for about a year, and spent the last 6 months of 2005 living together in the US. We had to look elsewhere, however, when my partner could not get a US visa. Actually, the fact that we are in a relationship demonstrates to the US government that he intends to stay in the US, and they assume that he will violate his visa term because of this.

Anyway, to the point.. At the conclusion of the interview, the Consulate official said that everything was okay in our documentation and evidence, except that we could not show that we had lived together for 2 years. She returned all the documents, except the passport, and said they will let us know.

My question is, does the 2 year rule apply for Civil Unions? I had thought I researched everything thoroughly, on this website, and the UK government immigration sites, but now I'm not so sure.

Should I be worried? Also, if they do deny the visa for that reason, should I appeal? I'm trying not to be paranoid, since I know this is new for them, but now I'm thinking that I might have misread or misinterpreted something.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Firstly I don't know if UK recognises NZ Civil Union and in any cae I think this would apply to your partner:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk
-------------------------------

How do I qualify to join my unmarried or same sex partner in the UK?
You and your unmarried or same sex partner must show that:

any previous marriage, civil partnership or similar relationship, has permanently broken down
you have been living together in a relationship similar to marriage or civil partnership for two years or more
you have suitable accommodation which is owned or lived in only by you and your household, and where you and your dependants can live without any help from public funds
you can support yourselves and any dependants without any help from public funds
you intend to live together permanently
your partner is not under 18, and
you are not under 18.
The Entry Clearance Officer will need to see evidence of a two-year relationship. This may include:

documents showing joint commitments, such as bank accounts, investments, rent agreements or mortgages
letters linking you to the same address, and
official records of your address, such as your National Insurance card or health card.

So I'd say yes the two year rule applies to all relationships, whatever sexual orientation...

Steve

UKBound, interesting question! In effect it is a question about whether an NZ Civil Union is now listed in Schedule 20! And the answer is yes!

For example, have a look at this webpage, which clearly lists NZ Civil Union.

Accordingly your partner needs to point this out to the British Embassy in Japan. I would expect an early reversal of the decision. You ask "should I appeal?". I think at this stage, no. Simply ask for the decision to be reviewed by the Manager of the Visa Section.

On researching this point it is clear that the original Schedule 20 list did not include NZ. I am not sure when NZ got added to the list but it is possible that the British Embassy in Japan are working to an out-of-date list.

What does inclusion in the Schedule 20 list mean? It means that the UK recognises such an overseas union, in the same way as the UK recognises foreign marriages under the terms of the Foreign Marriages Act 1892.

John wrote:UKBound, interesting question! In effect it is a question about whether an NZ Civil Union is now listed in Schedule 20! And the answer is yes!

For example, have a look at this webpage, which clearly lists NZ Civil Union.

Accordingly your partner needs to point this out to the British Embassy in Japan. I would expect an early reversal of the decision. You ask "should I appeal?". I think at this stage, no. Simply ask for the decision to be reviewed by the Manager of the Visa Section.

On researching this point it is clear that the original Schedule 20 list did not include NZ. I am not sure when NZ got added to the list but it is possible that the British Embassy in Japan are working to an out-of-date list.

What does inclusion in the Schedule 20 list mean? It means that the UK recognises such an overseas union, in the same way as the UK recognises foreign marriages under the terms of the Foreign Marriages Act 1892.

But John, even if the relationship hasn't subsisted for two years or more? If that's the case isn't positive discriminstion for folks like me working towards our two year UPV?

Steve

I think the easiest way to explain this is to say that if two people of opposite gender are married (whether in the UK or not) then proof of that marriage means there is no two-year requirement.

Similarly those of same-sex who are in a UK Civil Partnership, or a similar foreign union recognised under the Civil Partnership Act, do not need to need to worry about a 2-year period.

Do appreciate that the UK's Civil Partnerships Act only came into force last December. Accordingly this is all very new to those working in British Missions around the world, and whilst I am not excusing misunderstandings about the legislation, I am not surprised that mistakes are being made at the current time.

Hope that helps.

John wrote:I think the easiest way to explain this is to say that if two people of opposite gender are married (whether in the UK or not) then proof of that marriage means there is no two-year requirement.

Similarly those of same-sex who are in a UK Civil Partnership, or a similar foreign union recognised under the Civil Partnership Act, do not need to need to worry about a 2-year period.

Do appreciate that the UK's Civil Partnerships Act only came into force last December. Accordingly this is all very new to those working in British Missions around the world, and whilst I am not excusing misunderstandings about the legislation, I am not surprised that mistakes are being made at the current time.

Hope that helps.

Yes John it's clear now. No disrespect to the OB but I find this rather galling. I want the right to live with my gf not have to marry her. But I have to wait two years whilst same-sex couple only six months. What if I can't marry? Say for example my religion forbids it or my ex-wife is estranged or contesting and I cannot divorce?

The Civil Partnership is discrimatory, I'm sorry but no way is it equivelnt to a marriage but as in the eyes of the law it is, why should heterosexual couples be barred from applying for it?

I've got absolutley no temper but this has got to me! I'd better stop now and come back when I've chilled. Where's the Stella!

And in case anyone starts I'm not homophobic, just so long as they don't make it compulsory. Sorry, had to do the joke to lighten up!

Steve

Wanderer wrote:The Civil Partnership is discrimatory, I'm sorry but no way is it equivelnt to a marriage

Not sure I understand that. Can you explain?

John wrote:

Wanderer wrote:The Civil Partnership is discrimatory, I'm sorry but no way is it equivelnt to a marriage

Not sure I understand that. Can you explain?

I'll hold off, John, for a bit. I'm still a bit irrational on this subject - I'm reading about the Civil Partnership now and I admit I made a judgement above without consulting the facts.

I broke my own rule!

Steve

Thanks. I appreciate your prompt replies. I'll sit tight for now and hope they figure it out. If not, I'll ask the Manager to review the decision.

UKbound, I would not do that. I think it will do no harm to be a little proactive here. I think that because it really will be best for all concerned if the Embassy in Japan makes the correct decision first time around, rather than have to correct it.

So I think you could easily send something like :-

I understand from my partner, (name), who has recently applied to you for a Dependant's visa, that there is a query as to whether the New Zealand Civil Union we have entered into is recognised as equivalent to a UK Civil Partnership? Please click on http://tinyurl.com/febew where you will see a UK Government website that confirms that a New Zealand Civil Union is recognised under Schedule 20 of the UK's Civil Partnership Act.

If I can be of any more assistance to you in this matter then do not hesitate to ask.


Where to send? To visa.tokyo@fco.gov.uk .

Hey John -

Thanks. I sent an email to them as follows:

Thank you for your current evaluation of our request for a Dependent visa for my partner, xxxx.
I appreciate the continued help and hard work from the UK Immigration officials in Tokyo, the UK, and the US.

I understand from my partner that during his interview on Wednesday, there was a query as to whether the New Zealand Civil Union we have entered into is recognised as equivalent to a UK Civil Partnership. Please click on http://tinyurl.com/febew where you will see a UK Government website that confirms that a New Zealand Civil Union is recognised under Schedule 20 of the UK's Civil Partnership Act.

Thank you again for your prompt attention and ongoing diligence. We patiently await your decision, and our ability to continue our lives together in the UK.

I debated whether or not they would think I was telling them how to do their job, that's why I added in the buttering up parts.

Now I guess we just wait to see if everything works out okay.
Thanks, again, for your help.

I debated whether or not they would think I was telling them how to do their job

But, in a sense, they did not know how to do their job. Otherwise they would not have mentioned about the two of you not being together for two years. Pointing out a source of information that should be trusted by them, a UK Government website, should point them in the right direction and ensure that they don't issue a rejection on spurious grounds.

Come back in say five years time and British Missions will be totally up-to-speed with Civil Partnership issues, but at the present time they are still learning.

Hope you get your good news soon.

Hey John -

Thanks again for your help.. He went and picked up the visa yesterday. No problem, they sent an email last week saying it was approved. So the whole process for his visa took about 2 weeks for the Tokyo Consulate. Pretty fast, when you remember it included an interview, and they had to do some research on it.

We're flying over on the 3rd of July. Can't wait!

Thanks again!

Hey, that is great! Glad it all worked out so well, in the end!

Have a long and happy life together in the UK.