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Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

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nevilleturel
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Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm

Hi all, my visa got refused. I am a little shocked and very shattered.
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.

also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.

They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.

anyway, there is, of course, more case related info, But I want to know where to even begin to make my appeal.
Should I seek legal help? through immigration board or through workpermit.com can I get any directional help.
Can I get any admin help from somewhere? I don't where to begin, I have just received this news.

AmazonianX
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by AmazonianX » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 pm

nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
Hi all, my visa got refused. I am a little shocked and very shattered.
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.

also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.

They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.

anyway, there is, of course, more case related info, if there
is more information, may be pertinent that you share such so that you can be guided accordingly. Sometimes stating the reasons as it is in the decision letter can give perspective on how to address same.
But I want to know where to even begin to make my appeal.
Should I seek legal help? through immigration board or through workpermit.com can I get any directional help.
Can I get any admin help from somewhere? I don't where to begin, I have just received this news.

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seagul
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by seagul » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:04 pm

nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
Hi all, my visa got refused. I am a little shocked and very shattered.
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.

also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.

They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.

anyway, there is, of course, more case related info, But I want to know where to even begin to make my appeal.
Should I seek legal help? through immigration board or through workpermit.com can I get any directional help.
Can I get any admin help from somewhere? I don't where to begin, I have just received this news.
The threshold in determining the ones exceptional circumstances are excessively higher and totally discretional. You can read about it;

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/appendi ... umstances/
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

nevilleturel
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:27 pm

AmazonianX wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 pm
nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
Hi all, my visa got refused. I am a little shocked and very shattered.
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.

also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.

They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.

anyway, there is, of course, more case related info, if there
is more information, may be pertinent that you share such so that you can be guided accordingly. Sometimes stating the reasons as it is in the decision letter can give perspective on how to address same.
But I want to know where to even begin to make my appeal.
Should I seek legal help? through immigration board or through workpermit.com can I get any directional help.
Can I get any admin help from somewhere? I don't where to begin, I have just received this news.

there is loads more of case-specific info. Where should I share it on this public platform?
Is there also a way of consulting someone or an organisation?
If its an independent lawyer I can afford limited fees.
according to the letter I have one month to appeal.
I actually don't know where to begin, I haven't been with my son for 7 years.

I think its because some aspects of my application were left incomplete (its a mistake on my part). And they didn't consider my parent's investment and most of my financial investments were 3/4 month old so they dint consider that. I could have submitted an affidavit regarding my parent's financial investment to support me. I didn't realise they would dismiss my parent's investment as 3rd party funds.

I just feel that my application wasn't complete or sufficient documents were not submitted. Quite shocked they dint give me an option to submit more info. or an administrative review.

If its an appeal can I submit more documentary evidence or do I have to appeal to the court to reconsider the visa decision based on the same evidence submited? basically, can I submit more documents?

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seagul
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by seagul » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:13 pm

nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:27 pm

Is there also a way of consulting someone or an organisation?
If its an independent lawyer I can afford limited fees.
On the forum nobody can recommend about a particular one, however, you can search a suitable one from below link:
https://www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser


Also see a resembling experience over third party support:

immigration-for-family-members/spouse-v ... 06802.html
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

nevilleturel
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:56 pm

Even the 10 to 15 % funds that the officer has considered has been so undervalued. They are financial instruments there can't be any unclarity of value there.

all my savings accounts have been undervalued some less by 40%

Really what is going on I don't understand.

nevilleturel
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:06 pm

seagul wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:13 pm
nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:27 pm

Is there also a way of consulting someone or an organisation?
If its an independent lawyer I can afford limited fees.
On the forum nobody can recommend about a particular one, however, you can search a suitable one from below link:
https://www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser


Also see a resembling experience over third party support:

immigration-for-family-members/spouse-v ... 06802.html
if parents are 3rd party then I can easily produce an affidavit for financial support. Even if you discount their savings and wealth. The money I should under my name was more than enough to live in the UK for 4 yrs without work. it's just that the funds were 3/4 months under my name. By Nov they were all 6 months old.

the mistake I made is dint declare or show my intent or financial planning. I dint tell them how much I was looking to spend on rent. So the officer put down my rent and living cost as unknown. what stupidity is this, instead of clarifying with me at least. if some info was missing.

what is wrong with the visa officers.
What do I do next really?

nevilleturel
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 am

hi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.

And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.

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seagul
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by seagul » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:24 am

nevilleturel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 am
hi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.

And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
How to appeal
You have 14 days to appeal from the date the decision was sent.

If you apply after the deadline, you must explain why - the tribunal will decide if it can still hear your appeal.
https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... hin-the-uk
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

sam550
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by sam550 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:29 pm

nevilleturel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 am
hi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.

And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
Home Office appears to have a policy that says you, the applicant, must prove in the face of a very, very sceptical and negative institution, that you have this right. And, you can expect the Home Office to effectively answer in the negative wherever they can. The onus of proof lies solely with the applicant, I can understand your pain but it’s always good to ask someone if you have any doubts before applying.

nevilleturel
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India

Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:59 am

seagul wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:24 am
nevilleturel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 am
hi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.

And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
How to appeal
You have 14 days to appeal from the date the decision was sent.

If you apply after the deadline, you must explain why - the tribunal will decide if it can still hear your appeal.
https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... hin-the-uk
Thank Seagul but i know this page on the website.
I am applying formn outside of UK.
"You have 28 days to appeal after you get your decision."
"get' = when i get the email for the decision or
= when i get the decision. decision date

ssasi2020
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by ssasi2020 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:14 pm

Isn't the case if you meet all the requirements under parent route except adequate maintenance or English language , you still should get a grant under 10 years route.

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seagul
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by seagul » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:52 pm

nevilleturel wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:59 am
seagul wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:24 am
nevilleturel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 am
hi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.

And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
How to appeal
You have 14 days to appeal from the date the decision was sent.

If you apply after the deadline, you must explain why - the tribunal will decide if it can still hear your appeal.
https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... hin-the-uk
Thank Seagul but i know this page on the website.
I am applying formn outside of UK.
"You have 28 days to appeal after you get your decision."
"get' = when i get the email for the decision or
= when i get the decision. decision date
Thanks for pointing out this oversight. Actually the link was very next to the previous one. You must be given deadline on the letter but as per the below link that is 28 days after the date of decision.

https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... ide-the-uk
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

secret.simon
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by secret.simon » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:37 pm

nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.
That is probably for the better, as appeals are broader and can review more material when it comes to reviewing applications. On the other hand, an administrative review is only another civil servant in the Home Office reviewing whether the first civil servant decided the case according to the correct rules.
nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:27 pm
If its an appeal can I submit more documentary evidence or do I have to appeal to the court to reconsider the visa decision based on the same evidence submited? basically, can I submit more documents?
To the best of my knowledge, you can submit further proof at appeal stage (which you can't if there were an admin review). But I am not a lawyer. Wait for others to advise you further.

Also, I could be wrong, but admin reviews only apply to applications made within the UK. As yours was an application from abroad, you would have got an appeal anyway. But I could be wrong on this point.

Go through the modernised guidance for Home Office caseworkers on the appeals process.
nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.
The fact that your son and you have not lived together for seven years considerably weakens your case. In a sense, he is able to live a normal life (or as normal as possible under the circumstances) without you being with him. So, from a case worker point of view, there is no pressing need for you to be in the UK.

What are the circumstances of your son's residence in the UK currently? Does he live with his other parent? If so, do you have an agreement with the other parent to share custody? Or do you have sole custody?

Also, how old is your son? Can you move him to another country? In extremis, if your son and you were to move to another EEA member-state before 31st December 2020, you can still acquire automatic rights under the Transition Agreement. That is a possibility that you may want to look at.
nevilleturel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 am
hi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.

And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
I believe, 28 calendar days (4 weeks) from the date of the email notifying you of the decision.
Immigration Rules Appendix SN: Service of notices wrote: SN1.9 Where a notice is sent in accordance with paragraphs SN1.2 to SN1.4, it shall be deemed to have been given to the person affected, unless the contrary is proved:
(a) where the notice is sent by postal service:
...
(b) where the notice is sent by fax, e-mail, document exchange or courier, on the day it was sent.
But as you have the time, I would suggest erring on the side of caution and filing within 28 days of the date of decision.
ssasi2020 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:14 pm
Isn't the case if you meet all the requirements under parent route except adequate maintenance or English language , you still should get a grant under 10 years route.
If the applicant is in the UK. In this case, the applicant is abroad.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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ALKB
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by ALKB » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:53 pm

nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm

the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
It is your responsibility to submit a complete application.

3rd party support is very rarely accepted and only in the most dire circumstances.

What do you mean by investments?

Any funds have to be liquid and in an approved bank on an account in your or your spouse's name for more than 6 months at the time of application. Any money that has been in the account for less than 6 months will be disregarded.

Are the accounts in £? If in any other currency, exchange rates may also fluctuate and bring down the value of what you have.

Do you have, in liquid funds, in an account under your or your spouses name at least £62500 held for at least six months, the amount never going below this figure?
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

secret.simon
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by secret.simon » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:12 pm

ALKB wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:53 pm
Do you have, in liquid funds, in an account under your or your spouses name at least £62500 held for at least six months, the amount never going below this figure?
The OP is making an application as a parent of a child resident in the UK, not as a partner. So, to the best of my knowledge, he needs to prove only "adequate maintenance" and does not need to maintain £62,500.

However, there are rules about how "adequate maintenance" is calculated as regards savings.

To the OP; have you read the Home Office guidance on adequate maintenance and accommodation?

As an aside, on Page 15 of that guidance, it clearly states;
Financial support from a third party support cannot be counted, except where permitted under paragraph 1(b) of Appendix FM-SE (for example, a gift of cash savings which have now been held by the applicant/sponsor for at least 6 months by the date of application and are under their control; alimony or maintenance payments from a former partner; or an academic maintenance grant or stipend). Promises of support from a third party cannot be counted as they are vulnerable to a change in that person’s circumstances or in the applicant’s and/or sponsor’s relationship with them.
So be sure to calculate your savings and your income in line with the guidance linked to above before appealing.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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ALKB
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by ALKB » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:20 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:12 pm
ALKB wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:53 pm
Do you have, in liquid funds, in an account under your or your spouses name at least £62500 held for at least six months, the amount never going below this figure?
The OP is making an application as a parent of a child resident in the UK, not as a partner. So, to the best of my knowledge, he needs to prove only "adequate maintenance" and does not need to maintain £62,500.

However, there are rules about how "adequate maintenance" is calculated as regards savings.

To the OP; have you read the Home Office guidance on adequate maintenance and accommodation?

As an aside, on Page 15 of that guidance, it clearly states;
Financial support from a third party support cannot be counted, except where permitted under paragraph 1(b) of Appendix FM-SE (for example, a gift of cash savings which have now been held by the applicant/sponsor for at least 6 months by the date of application and are under their control; alimony or maintenance payments from a former partner; or an academic maintenance grant or stipend). Promises of support from a third party cannot be counted as they are vulnerable to a change in that person’s circumstances or in the applicant’s and/or sponsor’s relationship with them.
So be sure to calculate your savings and your income in line with the guidance linked to above before appealing.
Ack! I don't know why I read partner and not parent...

Savings still need to be instantly available liquid funds and the usage of the word 'investment' is somewhat worrisome.

OP, could you maybe post the wording of the refusal reasons, omitting any personal information?
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

nevilleturel
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:50 am

ALKB wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:53 pm
nevilleturel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm

the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
It is your responsibility to submit a complete application.

3rd party support is very rarely accepted and only in the most dire circumstances.

What do you mean by investments?

Any funds have to be liquid and in an approved bank on an account in your or your spouse's name for more than 6 months at the time of application. Any money that has been in the account for less than 6 months will be disregarded.

Are the accounts in £? If in any other currency, exchange rates may also fluctuate and bring down the value of what you have.

Do you have, in liquid funds, in an account under your or your spouses name at least £62500 held for at least six months, the amount never going below this figure?
the total investments in my name are 8000 pounds more than that amount (only in my name) not even counting my parent's investment. considering the exchange rate.

investments are in Fixed Deposits = Smi liquid investment. potentially as liquid as a savings bank account. A small part of that is Provident fund (again semi-liquid) and insurance policy as an icing on the cake. but around 70/80 % in FDs. all of the funds become 6 months old in Dec. this six months rule only came in case people/agents in India were temporarily transferring funds in applicant accounts. morons ruined it for everyone.

Hou do you arrive at this figure of 62500 GBP (what is the logic behind it?)

nevilleturel
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:01 pm

Thaks everyone for all the comments. I have been reading all of them.
A refusal is a traumatic experience I was taking a few days to recover.

I can't do this without a lawyer hence will have to get one. I will post more details on my refusal.

I had made a mistake on my application and instead of getting some help, I rushed into the application also due to personal pressures. I didn't get a letter from the mother of my child.

In a nutshell, the immigration system is has been dehumanised. the visa officers have to dehumanise applications. it was not like this 10 years ago. This is the wrong time to be an immigrant in UK.

I am going to appeal based on my right to a family under the ECHR rules ( i think this is what was discussed).

I wish there was a way of overhauling this xenophobic stupidy of a system that immigration has become even for genuine cases. They have become shameless and consciousness in their approach. And the fees they charge lets not even go there. never mind all that. I am going to appeal the shit out of this decision. which I know is down to the mistake I made.

nevilleturel
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Re: Appeal for refusal under settlement as a parent

Post by nevilleturel » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:08 pm

ssasi2020 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:14 pm
Isn't the case if you meet all the requirements under parent route except adequate maintenance or English language, you still should get a grant under 10 years route.
If the applicant is in the UK. In this case, the applicant is abroad.
[/quote]

this is what I was kind of banking on. I didn't know it only applied to people in the UK. So the people outside are subhuman .... ah! Anyway, I will post more on the refusal. There is a lot of research i need to do and very little time.

Thanks all for your inputs, they educate.

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