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Cash savings from 'gambling'

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scoopdoop
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Cash savings from 'gambling'

Post by scoopdoop » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:12 pm

First post here after browsing for a few months. My wife is applying for a spouse visa to join me in the UK, we married last month after 5 years together (3 in UK (student visa) then 2 long distance meeting around 6x per year).

Over a year ago I moved exactly 62500 into an easy-access online savings account (terrible rate mind you), in anticipation of eventually applying for this visa. The statement will simply show a single transaction from my current account and then no transactions for a year before the interest was paid. I earned my savings primarily from online sports trading, with a further 15k saved from my PhD stipend and tutoring.

I am a little concerned this may cause an issue if it sounds dodgy to the immigration officer; firstly for having an account with no transactions and only the exact amount required; and secondly when I provide a statement explaining the source of my savings is largely from betting websites. While my approach to sports trading is far from simply gambling (and is its own semi-established profession), that is how it usually looks to someone not familiar with the industry, and definitely has very negative connotations attached despite being comparable to trading stocks or FX. I desperately hope this wont cause an issue considering this is genuine money I have worked hard to earn myself, not questionable cash gifts from parents 8 months before the visa application that UKVI are used to.

Is it going to be sufficient to only provide this bank statement along with a short letter explaining how I made this money for the financial requirement? Or do I still need to try and prove evidence of specifically where and when I earned this money, from which platforms and on which dates etc? The profit is accumulated over years of thousands of smaller wins and losses on several platforms so it is very hard to clearly demonstrate. It is unclear how thorough I need to be having held the savings for over 6 months in a separate account.

Secondly, is beneficial or necessary to also include my current account statements where I currently hold another 10k or so, to demonstrate that I don't /just/ meet the threshold? This would however highlight that this account balance is depleting as I pay rent each month, as I am not currently employed having just graduated with my doctorate, and been visiting my now-wife and having our marriage. My gut feeling is that there is no real reason to include this account and confuse things - it will also show many large deposits and withdraws from sports exchanges.

Thanks for any advice,
From a nervous husband hoping his wife's visa can be approved without issue!

geoeng
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Re: Cash savings from 'gambling'

Post by geoeng » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:31 pm

You can read more about the guidance for cash savings here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -ext_1.pdf

Provided the cash savings were obtained legally (i.e. I assume these were earned in the UK not somewhere where such betting would be illegal) and you have held them under your control for at least 6 months, then the requirements are met. You will have to provide evidence (bank statements) that you have held the cash savings for 6 months prior to the date of application and you will have to declare the source of the savings (no evidence of the source is necessarily required with the application in this case). If the Entry Clearance Officer has concerns, they can ask for evidence if they wish when reviewing your application.

Per Appendix FM-SE of the Immigration Rules:
"11A. In respect of cash savings:
(a) The savings may be held in any form of bank/savings account (whether a current, deposit or investment account, provided by a financial institution regulated by the appropriate regulatory body for the country in which that institution is operating), provided that the account allows the savings to be accessed immediately (with or without a penalty for withdrawing funds without notice). This can include savings held in a pension savings account which can be immediately withdrawn.
(b) Paid out competition winnings or a legacy which has been paid can contribute to cash savings."

No real reason to include the second account if the first meets the requirements.
I'm just a guy on the Internet who immigrated to the UK. My opinions are based on my experience and interpretation of the immigration rules and should not be considered legal or immigration advice; your mileage may vary.

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Zerubbabel
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Re: Cash savings from 'gambling'

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:37 pm

Hello

I partly earn my living on BF Exchange. I understand your concern :)

"Gambling" - pros hate that word - is legal in the UK and not taxable.

You can easily justify the source of income by exporting a "profit and loss" from your account. However, you may need to get something more original from the site you are using. A screenshot wouldn't look great. See with them if they are willing to write you a letter for legal purpose.

scoopdoop
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Re: Cash savings from 'gambling'

Post by scoopdoop » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:11 pm

geoeng wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:31 pm
You can read more about the guidance for cash savings here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -ext_1.pdf

Provided the cash savings were obtained legally (i.e. I assume these were earned in the UK not somewhere where such betting would be illegal) and you have held them under your control for at least 6 months, then the requirements are met. You will have to provide evidence (bank statements) that you have held the cash savings for 6 months prior to the date of application and you will have to declare the source of the savings (no evidence of the source is necessarily required with the application in this case). If the Entry Clearance Officer has concerns, they can ask for evidence if they wish when reviewing your application.

Per Appendix FM-SE of the Immigration Rules:
"11A. In respect of cash savings:
(a) The savings may be held in any form of bank/savings account (whether a current, deposit or investment account, provided by a financial institution regulated by the appropriate regulatory body for the country in which that institution is operating), provided that the account allows the savings to be accessed immediately (with or without a penalty for withdrawing funds without notice). This can include savings held in a pension savings account which can be immediately withdrawn.
(b) Paid out competition winnings or a legacy which has been paid can contribute to cash savings."

No real reason to include the second account if the first meets the requirements.
Thanks a lot - that is good for my peace of mind; all legal and earned within the UK. And thanks for linking the relevant appendix.

Zerubbabel wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:37 pm
Hello

I partly earn my living on BF Exchange. I understand your concern :)

"Gambling" - pros hate that word - is legal in the UK and not taxable.

You can easily justify the source of income by exporting a "profit and loss" from your account. However, you may need to get something more original from the site you are using. A screenshot wouldn't look great. See with them if they are willing to write you a letter for legal purpose.
Hey - a fellow slave to the exchanges :)

Requesting P&L statements from BF + smarkets is probably the best idea, but as per geoeng above I may wait and see if I am asked for such evidence when they review our application, only submitting the required bank statement + declaration of source. IMO the P&L's still isn't conclusive proof of earning as you could always be down 10x more on another exchange.. while that obviously isn't the case I don't know it would be possible to prove without statements from every licensed operator in the country!

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Zerubbabel
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Re: Cash savings from 'gambling'

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:40 pm

Cool :0 My specialty is the +3.5 market.

Yes, see how they bounce back and be prepared to respond to any request.

There is also another issue with the Exchange. Some people use it to launder money. Even if BF are aware, but it can still happen. They take any market, +0.5 for instance, they back and lay that market. At the end, they are more or less at the same balance minus BF commission. They then withdraw the balance or request a cheque.

Now the money looks like a winning but it might has been well deposited as cash in first place.

That's why it's important to be always able to demonstrate that a winning is actually a winning and not a money that has been just circulated inside the system then taken out.

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