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Employer's letter and document submission

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ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:12 pm

seagul wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:03 am
Your employer letter is clearly looking not appropriate which even can confuse the caseworker because it is not clearly indicating your part time income which actually you are doing. Also remember that it can be issued by any competent person in your organisation even your line manager to who you can easily address your concern. If still they couldnt determine your part time income then simply they can give the total of last 6 or 12 months wages.
If you are applying in mid march then you can use your payslips from september 2019 to February 2020 (assuming by 28th February you will have completed at least 6 months with present employer) because your latest payslip dated on 28th February will be not older than 28 days. Also keep in mind that your employer letter should also be not older than 28 days or be dated after the date of application.
This clears it up. I will have to request a new letter although it's such a pain as I'm away from March 1 to March 8 so I can't request it until I am back.

Thanks for clearing the payslips query up as I thought it had to be six months to the day from when I received my first payslip on 30 Sep 2019.

How about the overtime though? If my salary is 14k per year and I've been doing overtime for the past 6 months to earn at least 1,550, do I meet the financial requirement? Somebody said...

"They will take the lowest payslip from the 6 months and multiply it by 12 to get your total annual salary. So, they will use:
£1620 x 12 = £19,440

HOWEVER, overtime can only count towards PREVIOUS income and cannot count towards your future income, which must be at least £18,600 each year.

So unless your employer can guarantee in writing that you will earn at least £383.33 in overtime every single month in the future (making each payslip at least £1550), only your salary of £14,000 can be considered for the visa.

Which means that unless you can prove you will earn at least £18,600 between March 2020 and March 2021, and between March 2021 and March 2022, and so on, you will not qualify for the visa.
"

Is this true? I don't meet the requirement?

geoeng
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by geoeng » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:52 pm

ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:12 pm
Is this true?
In a word, no.

In more words . . .
"All overtime in salaried employment will be calculated based on the approach to income from non-salaried employment. This will be an annualised 6-month average for the overtime which will be added to the level of the gross annual salary."

So per the Appendix FM-SE guidance document, the total income earned from overtime in the 6 months prior to the application date will be added up, divided by 6, then multiplied by 12 and that number will be added to your gross annual salary.

You can't use future overtime income towards the financial requirement, so if your employer promised you X amount of overtime the weekend after you submit the application you couldn't go and add that to your annual salary; it's entirely calculated based on what you have already earned.
I'm just a guy on the Internet who immigrated to the UK. My opinions are based on my experience and interpretation of the immigration rules and should not be considered legal or immigration advice; your mileage may vary.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:22 pm

geoeng wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:52 pm
ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:12 pm
Is this true?
In a word, no.

In more words . . .
"All overtime in salaried employment will be calculated based on the approach to income from non-salaried employment. This will be an annualised 6-month average for the overtime which will be added to the level of the gross annual salary."

So per the Appendix FM-SE guidance document, the total income earned from overtime in the 6 months prior to the application date will be added up, divided by 6, then multiplied by 12 and that number will be added to your gross annual salary.

You can't use future overtime income towards the financial requirement, so if your employer promised you X amount of overtime the weekend after you submit the application you couldn't go and add that to your annual salary; it's entirely calculated based on what you have already earned.
Ah ok great. So my last six payslips have been..

Sep 19: £1641.13
Oct 19: £2317.76
Nov 19: £1879.19
Dec 19: £1870.69
Jan 20: £1820.41
Feb 20: £1550.00 (not received this one yet but it will be at least 1550 so let's assume it's just exactly that)

If my employer's letter states something along the lines of...

X is employed by X. His role is X. His position is permanent. His annual salary is 14000. He has been doing overtime from Sep 2019 to present as reflected on his payslips and his total earnings over the past 6 months have been X (at least 9,600 right?). The overtime will be continuing indefinitely in the future and X is expected to be committing the same amount of hours to overtime indefinitely.

Would that suffice?

geoeng
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by geoeng » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:33 pm

As long as it also includes:
(ii) the length of their employment
(iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application
looks like it should be fine (really only just adding how long you have been working there and how long you have been earning that annual salary).
I'm just a guy on the Internet who immigrated to the UK. My opinions are based on my experience and interpretation of the immigration rules and should not be considered legal or immigration advice; your mileage may vary.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:35 pm

geoeng wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:33 pm
As long as it also includes:
(ii) the length of their employment
(iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application
looks like it should be fine (really only just adding how long you have been working there and how long you have been earning that annual salary).
Sorry to be a pain in the mule but regarding (iii), do they need to confirm how long I've been earning my basic salary of 14k or the 6 payslips I am relying on to meet the financial requirement?

From May 2019 to August 2019 I earned my normal salary of 1,116 per month as I did not do overtime, then from Sep 2019 to present I've earned at least 1,550 per month because of overtime. Does the letter have to say X has been earning at least 14k per year since May 2019, or does it need to mention the overtime too? Or is just best to get them to say X has been earning 14k per year since May 2019 however since Sep 2019 to present he has been doing overtime allowing him to earn at least 1,550 per month for the previous 6 months?

Basically like this..

X is employed by X. His role is X. His position is permanent. His annual salary is 14000. He has been doing overtime from Sep 2019 to present as reflected on his payslips and his total earnings over the past 6 months have been X (at least 9,600 right?). The overtime will be continuing indefinitely in the future and X is expected to be committing the same amount of hours to overtime indefinitely. X has been employed by X since 16 May 2019 and he has been earning his annual salary of 14000 since he started in 16 May 2019.

Even though it doesn't reference overtime pay?

Sorry.

geoeng
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by geoeng » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:47 pm

ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:35 pm
Sorry to be a pain in the mule but regarding (iii), do they need to confirm how long I've been earning my basic salary of 14k or the 6 payslips I am relying on to meet the financial requirement?
I believe just the basic salary as that would be the direct interpretation of the wording of the immigration rules. The way you have addressed total earnings in the previous 6 months should be sufficient to address overtime, so what you have there should be fine I think.
I'm just a guy on the Internet who immigrated to the UK. My opinions are based on my experience and interpretation of the immigration rules and should not be considered legal or immigration advice; your mileage may vary.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:49 pm

geoeng wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:47 pm
ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:35 pm
Sorry to be a pain in the mule but regarding (iii), do they need to confirm how long I've been earning my basic salary of 14k or the 6 payslips I am relying on to meet the financial requirement?
I believe just the basic salary as that would be the direct interpretation of the wording of the immigration rules. The way you have addressed total earnings in the previous 6 months should be sufficient to address overtime, so what you have there should be fine I think.
Ah ok thank you very much. I appreciate your help immensely.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:11 pm

In relation to the bank statements..

I am with Santander. When I go online banking and select 'September 2019' for my transactions and in/outgoings, the statement brings up 29th August 2019 to 28th Sep 2019. Obviously, this will show my August pay slip (although I am not relying on this one) being deposited rather than my September pay slip (as my August payslip was deposited 31st August and my September was deposited on 30th September)

In order for it to show my September deposit, I need to select 'October 2019' for my transactions and in/outgoings as this will show my transactions from 30th September 2019 to 28th October 2019. Will this be a problem? I ask because for my September pay slip, am I right in assuming the entire month's worth of September bank statement has to be provided? And not just the last few days of my September bank statement which shows my wages being deposited?

If this is the case, wouldn't I end up with 7 bank statements and 6 pay slips?

I can actually use online banking to specify what dates I need to be shown, so I can select 1st September 2019 to 30th September 2019 although this appears as on the statement:

Transactions
Transaction date: 01/09/2019 to 30/09/2019
Account number: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

Doesn't include my name/account/sort code etc.

geoeng
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by geoeng » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:24 pm

ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:11 pm
If this is the case, wouldn't I end up with 7 bank statements and 6 pay slips?
The requirement is not to provide 6 months worth of bank statements (or any other specific number). The requirement is to provide "personal bank statements corresponding to the same period(s) as the payslips showing that the salary has been paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly." So you need to provide however many bank statements it takes to cover the same period as your payslips.

Electronic banks statements need to either accompanied by a letter from the bank on its headed stationery confirming that the documents are authentic or which bear the official stamp of the issuing bank on every page. This would generally be applicable if what you have is simply a list of transactions rather than a formal bank statement (which are often issued on specific dates noted on the statement).
I'm just a guy on the Internet who immigrated to the UK. My opinions are based on my experience and interpretation of the immigration rules and should not be considered legal or immigration advice; your mileage may vary.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:29 pm

geoeng wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:24 pm
ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:11 pm
If this is the case, wouldn't I end up with 7 bank statements and 6 pay slips?
The requirement is not to provide 6 months worth of bank statements (or any other specific number). The requirement is to provide "personal bank statements corresponding to the same period(s) as the payslips showing that the salary has been paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly." So you need to provide however many bank statements it takes to cover the same period as your payslips.

Electronic banks statements need to either accompanied by a letter from the bank on its headed stationery confirming that the documents are authentic or which bear the official stamp of the issuing bank on every page. This would generally be applicable if what you have is simply a list of transactions rather than a formal bank statement (which are often issued on specific dates noted on the statement).
You are amazing. Thank you so much. I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate your advice. I am sure I shall be back asking more questions but for now I will have to get these pay slips, bank statements and employer's letter sorted before anything else.

Thank you. <3

EDIT: Does my employer's letter specifically have to say how much I will earn in overtime in the future. If my base pay is 1,116, does my employer need to state that I will be able to earn at least 434 in overtime each month in the future to earn at least 1,1550? Or can they just state that the current overtime schedule will be in place indefinitely?

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seagul
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by seagul » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:38 pm

ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:29 pm


EDIT: Does my employer's letter specifically have to say how much I will earn in overtime in the future. If my base pay is 1,116, does my employer need to state that I will be able to earn at least 434 in overtime each month in the future to earn at least 1,1550? Or can they just state that the current overtime schedule will be in place indefinitely?
Future overtime won't be considered. Your employer simply need to state your base salary and the total or average of the last 6 months overtime. And if your employer can't determine your part time wages correctly then just ask him to give the total or average of last 6 months wages including overtime to make none-salaried calculations easier.
Regarding online bank statements, if they aren't marked pacifically as online then you don't need to stamp or any letter of their authenticity rather can upload these straight.
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:24 am

seagul wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:38 pm
ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:29 pm


EDIT: Does my employer's letter specifically have to say how much I will earn in overtime in the future. If my base pay is 1,116, does my employer need to state that I will be able to earn at least 434 in overtime each month in the future to earn at least 1,1550? Or can they just state that the current overtime schedule will be in place indefinitely?
Future overtime won't be considered. Your employer simply need to state your base salary and the total or average of the last 6 months overtime. And if your employer can't determine your part time wages correctly then just ask him to give the total or average of last 6 months wages including overtime to make none-salaried calculations easier.
Regarding online bank statements, if they aren't marked pacifically as online then you don't need to stamp or any letter of their authenticity rather can upload these straight.
I know they can't use future overtime to work out my annual salary, but somebody stated on another forum.. "HOWEVER, overtime can only count towards PREVIOUS income and cannot count towards your future income, which must be at least £18,600 each year.

So unless your employer can guarantee in writing that you will earn at least £383.33 in overtime every single month in the future (making each payslip at least £1550), only your salary of £14,000 can be considered for the visa.

Which means that unless you can prove you will earn at least £18,600 between March 2020 and March 2021, and between March 2021 and March 2022, and so on, you will not qualify for the visa
."

So I need my employer to confirm there'll be overtime in future? Which there may not be. I can get my employer to state 'X's annual salary is 14,000 and due to the overtime from September 2019 to February 2020 X's pay total for this period is 9,600.

I do or do not need to mention future overtime? Do they consider this when assessing visa applications? If this is true then overtime can only be considered if it's guaranteed in the future which needs to be in a letter? Would saying 'overtime is likely to be continuing in the future' be sufficient? My employer says it's likely but they stated they won't say it's guaranteed.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:53 am

This is turning into a nightmare. I thought because my salary is 14k per year I could just do overtime for 6 months to meet at least 1,550 per month and then provide the 6 pay slips and bank statements, along with an employer's letter that it would be sufficient.

I wasn't aware it also has to be in writing that the overtime will continue in the future at the level it has been. Somebody else told me a few months ago that because overtime has been happening for 6 months and that's how I am meeting the financial threshold, then it's assumed it will continue into the future and no letter from employer referencing overtime is needed. And my employer stated they could maybe say it's likely to continue although they will not say it is guaranteed at this level of salary :(

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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by Korekt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:44 am

You've been advised repeatedly to disregard future overtime earnings. If you're being advised differently elsewhere or by someone else, you would need to make a decision at some stage, won't you?
"Facts are sacred. Opinions are free."

geoeng
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by geoeng » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:47 am

ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:24 am
I do or do not need to mention future overtime? Do they consider this when assessing visa applications?
You do not need to mention it because as you have identified, future earnings that a person may earn by way of overtime will not count as income towards the financial requirement, so it would not be considered.
ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:53 am
I thought because my salary is 14k per year I could just do overtime for 6 months to meet at least 1,550 per month and then provide the 6 pay slips and bank statements, along with an employer's letter that it would be sufficient.
It is.
ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:53 am
I wasn't aware it also has to be in writing that the overtime will continue in the future at the level it has been.
There is nothing in the immigration rules/guidance that says this that I am aware of.
ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:53 am
Somebody else told me a few months ago that because overtime has been happening for 6 months and that's how I am meeting the financial threshold, then it's assumed it will continue into the future and no letter from employer referencing overtime is needed.
Correct.

Realistically, even if you were in salaried employment of £50,000/year at the same company for 20 years and use this income to sponsor a spouse visa, there is no guarantee that you would continue to receive that income, or any income, for the next 2.5 years the visa would be valid for. The financial requirement is not based on what you will earn, it is based on what you currently earn and what you have earned (except in limited circumstances and usually then in combination with historic earnings).
I'm just a guy on the Internet who immigrated to the UK. My opinions are based on my experience and interpretation of the immigration rules and should not be considered legal or immigration advice; your mileage may vary.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:48 pm

Ok, that clears it up. Thank you all. And finally, before I get my employer's letter.. they have been quite difficult in doing so, and so I thought I would give them a template. This is what I have come up with - do you guys think it is sufficient?

-

As I earn 14k per year. Overtime past 6 months has let me earn at least 1,550.
--

To the Entry Clearance Officer,

X is employed by XX as a XXX as permanent staff. His gross annual salary is 11200 as well as receiving a night premium of 2800 per year, making his gross annual salary 14000 . He has been employed since May 2019. He has received a total income of 9,600 from September 2019 to February 2020 due to overtime, which is reflected on his payslips. This overtime is expected to continue at the same rate of pay.

Please contact myself on XXX if you require any further information.

Kind regards,
XX

--

Should I mention 'he has received a total income of 9600' from Sep 19 to Feb 20, letting the ECO work out my average overtime income, or should I have them instead say... "He has received from overtime between September 2019 to February 2020 an average amount of 680.53"

If so, would that meet the four points required, most notably part (iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application?

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:38 pm

Would saying my annual salary is 14k affect the applicant, so long as the 6 payslips I submit show earnings of at least 1550? And should they say I've earned 9600 in total over the past 6 months or just leave that part?

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seagul
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by seagul » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:53 pm

geoeng wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:47 am

Realistically, even if you were in salaried employment of £50,000/year at the same company for 20 years and use this income to sponsor a spouse visa, there is no guarantee that you would continue to receive that income, or any income,
Through income protection insurance policy it is possible.
geoeng wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:47 am
The financial requirement is not based on what you will earn,
Future income can be considered where a salaried person applying through category B or UK sponsor returning UK after working overseas with Job offer going to start in 3 months.

**All said above doesn't apply in op's case**
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

ChugaLuvMe
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by ChugaLuvMe » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:29 am

If I asked HR to draft an employer's letter like above, would it suffice? I'm just unsure if outright stating my 14k annual salary would affect the application and if they need to say something like "X has earned 9600 in the past 6 months from Sep 19 to Feb 20". I mean, don't my payslips reflect that? Just worried if it gets refused on this basis.

My thinking is that saying 14k annual salary should be fine as my payslips are above the required amount of 1550. It's just iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application; that is the issue. Since I am relying on earning at least 18600 for the application, maybe the letter needs to state how much I have earned in total from September 2019 to February 2020. The ECO can then do 14000/12 to figure out my base pay and then calculate my annualized overtime from that.

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seagul
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Re: Employer's letter and document submission

Post by seagul » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:52 am

ChugaLuvMe wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:48 pm
.
--

To the Entry Clearance Officer,

X is employed by XX as a XXX as permanent staff. His gross annual salary is 11200 as well as receiving a night premium of 2800 per year, making his gross annual salary 14000 . He has been employed since May 2019. He has received a total income of 9,600 from September 2019 to February 2020 due to overtime, which is reflected on his payslips. This overtime is expected to continue at the same rate of pay.

Please contact myself on XXX if you require any further information.

Kind regards,
XX

--
This one is totally fine. On a separate covering letter You can make your calculations as how you are meeting the financial requirement. Don't over think or overstress as you seems like easily be able to meet the requirement. And as stated previously that if you are having difficulty to approach HR then any competent person including your line manager can even prepare this letter for you.
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

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