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Government launches consultation on family route

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé/e | Ancestry

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shade00
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Post by shade00 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:24 pm

LadySSSS wrote:It is indeed quite clear why these proposals are taking place and I am personally sorry for all genuine families that will suffer because of it.

I am currently in the UK on spouse visa and to be honest, I am a bit upset when thinking about possibility that they may apply this rule to already issued visas... Tho i doubt they will.
My husband is tree surgeon, he works really hard and earns around £15,000 a year, and I cannot find job at all, so I am not working at the moment. We are not claiming any benefits.
With his wage we manage to live just fine, paying bills, food and we go out every so often. I cant say that we are missing much money-wise. We may not be able to afford expensive holiday, but we are doing just fine.

Now I am trying to imagine situation in 2 years time when i get to apply for ILR. I may be working so we may have enough combined income (not sure if i missed info on joint income being considered or not) or I may be pregnant or have 1 child, which is quite possible scenario, or I just may not be working... And i may get rejected and be forced to return to my country of origin even tho i was here with him 2 years and he is born British citizen?!

I don't think they dare to do such thing. Imagine how many families will be affected by this.

I don't care if I need to extend my probation visa to another 3 years... I wouldn't mind being on probation 10 years if they wish. I speak good English and i don't mind doing yet another test to prove it if they wish... But they cant convince me that my husband's income are not enough to support our lives and i will fight with all i have to not get separated with him if it comes to that.
Things are getting tough indeed, im just hoping they won't make any drastic changes but by the looks of it seems like all is in plan.

I'm still waiting for my spouse to get here so ILR is a long way yet for me. :(
-----------------------------
“Surely the patient will be paid their wages in full without reckoning.” [39:10]

Submitted ISL -22/02/12
Granted 12/07/12

navalaviator
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Post by navalaviator » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:44 am

If the new settlement rules are applied to the people who are already here on the spouse visa and en route to ILR soon then it will definitely result in over 90% of people refused ILR as we will have to fulfil the new income threshold requirement as well. I just wonder where have gone all the Human rights and Article 8 and ECHR???

They just can't simply refuse anybody who has been here for almost two years with his/her British spouse and is about to apply for settlement as refusing people over income doesn't give them enough reason to refuse or to justify the refusal because it will be easily won in the courts on human rights,article 8 and on the basis of European convention on human Rights(ECHR).

Why the hell they would ask people to extend there visas to another 3 years to make up an overall 5 years period before someone could apply for ILR as we were issued 2 years visa with a clear guideline to apply for settlement once the probationary period is elapsed so if they ask us to extend it to three years further when we are just about to apply for settlement then it is simply a betrayal and dishonesty.

Even IF they impose the requirement to extend to another 3 years after 2 year current visa then we will have to fulfil the new hefty income threshold as well (which we didn't have to when applied for the spouse visa but in new rules applicants will be required to do so twice once when they apply for spouse and then at the time of ILR after 5 years) which I suppose most of us here on spouse visas just simply can't fulfil and it will be a part of the rules in future so we would be required to fulfil this requirement as well as we just can't skip this part of the paragraph of new settlement rules.

They are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria (which is next in line) to give there people there freedom, human rights and liberate them from the dictatorships so that they can live a better peaceful life while here in this country they are bringing rules to split the spouses of there own British citizens to make them cry there eyes out and suffer????????????????
what is it called hypocrisy,Ignorance or something else????????


No human rights or mercy or freedom for British citizens but LOTSof concern for the people in other parts of the world tens of thousands of miles away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where is the European convention on human rights for British citizens and there spouses????So there is NO meaning of a British Marriage certificate issued by the British registry office???
Which is it of the favors of your lord that ye deny.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:21 am

There has been no suggestion that the new rules will apply to those who are already here on spouse visas. maybe you should calm down and wait feor the announcement.

pennylessinindia
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Post by pennylessinindia » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:56 am

Nagwa wrote:Hi, I have just got a quick question my husband has still got his fam visit valid till may he came for three weeks in dec and left in jan. Now he wants to apply for the spouse visa can he apply for spouse visa while he still has his visit visa valid?
[/quote]
yes but not from the UK
pennyless

moz
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Post by moz » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:13 am

Hi all...

I was wondering, is there anything said about married for 4 years and over outside uk rule which leads to ILR?

Thanks

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:40 pm

moz wrote:Hi all...

I was wondering, is there anything said about married for 4 years and over outside uk rule which leads to ILR?

Thanks
yes they have suggested that this rule might be changed also.

crb
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Post by crb » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:21 pm

any further news on the supposed new rules!!!!!

gabysls
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Post by gabysls » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:33 pm

What if the UK national earns below the treshold, say £20k, and the partner who is non UK national earns a lot more than him/her, say £30k? This needs to be taken into account as well, in my opinion.

AcrossBorders
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Post by AcrossBorders » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:07 pm

GrahamD85 wrote:I think that's what a lot of us are wondering. Fingers crossed it's a case of 'if you apply under the old system then it's the same for ILR', but no one knows. We're due to apply for ILR in September, so I'm hoping that's the case.
Yes this will make logical sense.

If UKBA approve a spouse visa when earning 20k p/a and deemed it sufficient. They can't allow you to live life for 2 years and send the spouse back home because they changed their mind!!

That really would be an out rage.

dza926
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Post by dza926 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:22 pm

So what happens if you get granted a visa whilst earning above the threshold, lost your job, then got a lower paying one and had a child. You could be supporting yourselves without public funds, married and paying taxes in the UK for 2 years, but they will deport the spouse because you don't earn as much as you once did?

How on earth would that be fair or even legal?

saminkhan
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Post by saminkhan » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:52 am

Hi

Does anyone know how these changes are implemented?

Are they put forward to parliament for approval or UKBA can just add them onto their website on the evening of 31st May announcing their implementation from 1st June (assuming the remors are true about the announcement date)

Thanks

Deenfat
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Post by Deenfat » Tue May 15, 2012 12:03 pm

Any information regarding when this will be in force?
Certainly if June date were to be feasible, announcement would have been made by now.
Any infor will be helpful.

crb
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Post by crb » Thu May 17, 2012 10:37 pm

obiviously this has to be debated and VOTED upon in the parliament.....anyone know when.....i can't belive i am gonna have to watch the bbc parliament channel!!!

pippa
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Post by pippa » Fri May 18, 2012 7:02 pm

I read the Sunday Times last week and they interviewed Damien Green the Minister. He said that it is soon that they will put the proposal through Parliament but he didn't indicate the timeline.

bobgz
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Post by bobgz » Sat May 19, 2012 12:56 pm

I didnt see anything in the Queens speech unless it was tucked into another bill. If its not in the Queens Speech its unlikely to go through in this session.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sat May 19, 2012 8:34 pm

crb wrote:obiviously this has to be debated and VOTED upon in the parliament.....anyone know when.....i can't belive i am gonna have to watch the bbc parliament channel!!!
the immigration rules are not primary or secondary legislation and are therefore not generally debated in parliament. They come get force unless disapproved of by parliament which is unusual.

See here

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights ... ntrol.html

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sat May 19, 2012 8:44 pm

bobgz wrote:I didnt see anything in the Queens speech unless it was tucked into another bill. If its not in the Queens Speech its unlikely to go through in this session.
it won't be a bill as the immigration rules are not primary or secondary legislation and changes to the rules are not subject to detailed scrutiny in parliament. There would be no need for proposed changes to the rules to be mentioned in the queens speech.

pippa
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Post by pippa » Sat May 19, 2012 10:03 pm

Greenie wrote:
bobgz wrote:I didnt see anything in the Queens speech unless it was tucked into another bill. If its not in the Queens Speech its unlikely to go through in this session.
it won't be a bill as the immigration rules are not primary or secondary legislation and changes to the rules are not subject to detailed scrutiny in parliament. There would be no need for proposed changes to the rules to be mentioned in the queens speech.
So does it mean that the rules are policies and can be challenged through the court, like the Pankina case for Tier 1 rule?

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sun May 20, 2012 12:57 pm

No the rules are not policies they are rules that are passed through parliament but that do not receive the same parliamentary scrutiny as legislation. However they have the potential to be challenged in the courts as the changes to the age requirement were.

psb
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Post by psb » Sun May 20, 2012 8:43 pm

Will the new immigration rules likely impact on the naturalisation process of spouses/civil partners (of British citizens) who are now on ILR en route to naturalisation?

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sun May 20, 2012 10:34 pm

no - the law on naturalisation is governed by the British nationality act not the immigration rules.

sazkhan
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Post by sazkhan » Mon May 21, 2012 1:06 pm

heard form my wife's lawyer that they they might introduce the new law from 12th June (he is not sure) ... Anyway, on 28th May they are going to present Crime and Courts bill in the parliament so any chance that they might announce the changes in that bill?

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Mon May 21, 2012 2:19 pm

No because as already explained they do not need to introduce a bill for changes in the immigration rules as the rules are laid out in house of commons papers and changes are introduced by way of a statement of changes put before parliament.

However they do need to give at least 21 days notice for any changes. If they follow the ssame practice as they have with other recent major changes to the student route and work based settlement route they may well give more notice by issuing a statement of policy prior to the statement of changes.

bobgz
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Post by bobgz » Mon May 21, 2012 10:40 pm

The point is that some of the proposals in the consultation will require primary legislation as they are not just immigration rules the government is seeking to overturn but Supreme Court decisions. Some of them could be open to fresh challenges too, for instance the third party maintenance change comes from an interpretation of the existing rules by the Supreme Court however it left open the issue of Article 8. I suspect if the rules were changed to close that an appeal to the court would be likely.

The ECHR and the Human Rights Act are pretty clear, British citizens have the right to have their spouse join them in the UK, only under clear public interest grounds (recourse to public funds) is there an exception to that.

carlyann
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Post by carlyann » Tue May 22, 2012 1:27 am

Hi - I am the sponsor and I am marrying my fiance in Nicaragua on 28th July. He has passed the A1 english test (but previously failed the B1 test).

I am unclear whether the new proposed rules say that B1 will be required after the 2 [5] year probationary period or just for entry. I am not clear on immigration terminology. The consultation says:
'Building on the requirement for basic
English language skills (A1 level of the
Common European Framework of
Reference) introduced in November 2010
for spouses and partners on entry and
for leave to remain, and on the existing
English language requirement for spouses
and partners for settlement, we propose to
require spouses and partners applying for
settlement to be able to demonstrate that
they can understand everyday English (B1
level).The probationary period will also assist with
integration and give time to develop the
English language skills needed to live
permanently in the UK.'

One of the reasons they give for the increased probationary period seems to indicate (from a common sense point of view) that it would be after that period but I'm not sure. The consultation says:
'The probationary period will also assist with
integration and give time to develop the
English language skills needed to live
permanently in the UK'

I'm so worried all our plans will come to nothing at the last minute. Does anyone have any views please?
Hoping to be reunited soon

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