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Government launches consultation on family route

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé/e | Ancestry

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Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Tue May 22, 2012 9:30 am

bobgz wrote:The point is that some of the proposals in the consultation will require primary legislation as they are not just immigration rules the government is seeking to overturn but Supreme Court decisions. Some of them could be open to fresh challenges too, for instance the third party maintenance change comes from an interpretation of the existing rules by the Supreme Court however it left open the issue of Article 8. I suspect if the rules were changed to close that an appeal to the court would be likely.

The ECHR and the Human Rights Act are pretty clear, British citizens have the right to have their spouse join them in the UK, only under clear public interest grounds (recourse to public funds) is there an exception to that.
I agree that some of the proposed changes will be open to challenges however I do not agree that the changes require primary legislation. Which changes are you referring to exactly?

The right to a family life is not absolute and 'recourse to public funds' is not the only public interest ground on which this right can be interefered with.

BigEasy
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Post by BigEasy » Tue May 22, 2012 9:55 am

carlyann wrote:Hi - I am the sponsor and I am marrying my fiance in Nicaragua on 28th July. He has passed the A1 english test (but previously failed the B1 test).

I am unclear whether the new proposed rules say that B1 will be required after the 2 [5] year probationary period or just for entry. I am not clear on immigration terminology. The consultation says:
'Building on the requirement for basic
English language skills (A1 level of the
Common European Framework of
Reference) introduced in November 2010
for spouses and partners on entry and
for leave to remain, and on the existing
English language requirement for spouses
and partners for settlement, we propose to
require spouses and partners applying for
settlement to be able to demonstrate that
they can understand everyday English (B1
level).The probationary period will also assist with
integration and give time to develop the
English language skills needed to live
permanently in the UK.'

One of the reasons they give for the increased probationary period seems to indicate (from a common sense point of view) that it would be after that period but I'm not sure. The consultation says:
'The probationary period will also assist with
integration and give time to develop the
English language skills needed to live
permanently in the UK'

I'm so worried all our plans will come to nothing at the last minute. Does anyone have any views please?

From what I can see Carylann they are referring to obtaining ILR after the proposed 5 year inital probationary period. They constantly refer to "settlement" in the document as a term for ILR.

I'm pretty sure that this change as documented in the consultation paper, if it happens, will not cause you problems with your spouse visa. But after the 2/5 years your partner would be required to have B1 in order to apply for ILR.

In fact page 30 of the document shows a diagram that states A1 will still apply for initial visa and leave to remain requirements. :)

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

carlyann
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Post by carlyann » Thu May 24, 2012 10:41 am

To my rescue agin Bigeasy! thanks that has put my mind at ease
Hoping to be reunited soon

carlyann
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Post by carlyann » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:42 am

It was reported in today's Metro (London paper) that Theresa May will be making an announcement tomorrow on the new rules on forced marriage.

It doesn't mention whether the announcement will cover the other issues in the consultation.
Hoping to be reunited soon

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:54 am

carlyann wrote:It was reported in today's Metro (London paper) that Theresa May will be making an announcement tomorrow on the new rules on forced marriage.

It doesn't mention whether the announcement will cover the other issues in the consultation.
The announcement on forced marriage is not an immigration issue. It is an announcement on making forced marriage a specific criminal offence. Its not related to the consultation.

Deenfat
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Post by Deenfat » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:24 pm

Was watching on BBC parliament the grilling of the Home Office, Boarder Agency, et all staff regarding tier 4 changes and one of the questions asked by an MP is sudden changes to immigration rules without given ample notice to those affected. The Home office Mandarin's response was that giving ample notice leads to surge in applications and that affects their staffing and and their targets. They would rather give a short or no notice.

And I guess that is the way to the future......

So bad they would rather disfranchise poor immigrants than to slip on their targets.

m3y
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Post by m3y » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:37 pm

Looks like the laws are on their way

http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/08/ ... pe=article

So sad for genuine familys, the conservatives realky do seem heartless
- 10/05/2012 Applied in Islamabad
- 10/05/2012 Application Forwarded to Islamabad OC
- 23/05/2012 Visa application is under process at the British High Commission.
-09/10/2012 Visa Granted :)

carlyann
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Post by carlyann » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:49 pm

I'm sure Theresa May sleeps well in the knowledge that the changes she introduces will never effect her life - she's married and apparently owns 2 houses worth a combined £1.6m

It's clear that this is all about meeting targets - the measures go way beyond ensuring that immigrants don't claim benefits and burden the tax payer

sorry - feeling very irritated!!!!
Hoping to be reunited soon

ajax
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Post by ajax » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:13 pm

Oh, dear. Very bad, indeed. Especially these two:
Ministers have also been considering extending the probationary period for overseas spouses and partners of British citizens from two to five years and introducing an "attachment test" to show that the "combined attachment" of the couple is greater to Britain than any other country.
One can only pray that this only applies to all initial applications made after a certain date in the future - although this looks very unlikely. :(

navalaviator
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Post by navalaviator » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:49 pm

Last edited by navalaviator on Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Which is it of the favors of your lord that ye deny.

navalaviator
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Post by navalaviator » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:51 pm

This is just so unfair!!!!!!
Last edited by navalaviator on Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Which is it of the favors of your lord that ye deny.

navalaviator
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Post by navalaviator » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:52 pm

navalaviator wrote:If the new settlement rules are applied to the people who are already here on the spouse visa and en route to ILR soon then it will definitely result in over 90% of people refused ILR as we will have to fulfil the new income threshold requirement as well. I just wonder where have gone all the Human rights and Article 8 and ECHR???

They just can't simply refuse anybody who has been here for almost two years with his/her British spouse and is about to apply for settlement as refusing people over income doesn't give them enough reason to refuse or to justify the refusal because it will be easily won in the courts on human rights,article 8 and on the basis of European convention on human Rights(ECHR).

Why the hell they would ask people to extend there visas to another 3 years to make up an overall 5 years period before someone could apply for ILR as we were issued 2 years visa with a clear guideline to apply for settlement once the probationary period is elapsed so if they ask us to extend it to three years further when we are just about to apply for settlement then it is simply a betrayal and dishonesty.

Even IF they impose the requirement to extend to another 3 years after 2 year current visa then we will have to fulfil the new hefty income threshold as well (which we didn't have to when applied for the spouse visa but in new rules applicants will be required to do so twice once when they apply for spouse and then at the time of ILR after 5 years) which I suppose most of us here on spouse visas just simply can't fulfil and it will be a part of the rules in future so we would be required to fulfil this requirement as well as we just can't skip this part of the paragraph of new settlement rules.

They are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria (which is next in line) to give there people there freedom, human rights and liberate them from the dictatorships so that they can live a better peaceful life while here in this country they are bringing rules to split the spouses of there own British citizens to make them cry there eyes out and suffer????????????????
what is it called hypocrisy,Ignorance or something else????????


No human rights or mercy or freedom for British citizens but LOTSof concern for the people in other parts of the world tens of thousands of miles away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where is the European convention on human rights for British citizens and there spouses????So there is NO meaning of a British Marriage certificate issued by the British registry office???
Greenie wrote:There has been no suggestion that the new rules will apply to those who are already here on spouse visas. maybe you should calm down and wait feor the announcement.
If you would have been in my shoes you would have been probably upset and sad as government is trying its best to split the genuine couples living in this country.
Which is it of the favors of your lord that ye deny.

bbking123456
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Post by bbking123456 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:20 pm

I hope the Government understands that they were not elected to do this,If the rights of British Citizens is tampered with,there would be huge ramifications on this,It would lead to all sorts of legal wranglings and this Government would eventually collapse,the worst Labor Government is better than the best Conservative Government.
It saddens me greatly that this unelected Government would even think of interfering with our basic human rights,they indirectly spread Xenophobic messages to the public with right wing newspapers trumpeting their horn,these rules would lead to an increase in dearly beloved opinions and ideas I.E I can't date you cos you are non EU I don't want to leave my family to go to your Country. This Government never seizes to amaze me.[/quote]

MWill
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Post by MWill » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:18 am

ajax wrote: One can only pray that this only applies to all initial applications made after a certain date in the future - although this looks very unlikely. :(
Actually, all the information coming from the government since January has said that it is likely that the new rules will only apply to new applicants, and not to those already in the UK with leave. This is what Damian Green and the UKBA have been putting in their letters to members of the public. Not confirmed yet, but likely.

When they changed the Settlement rules for Tier 2 migrants in April and added an income threshold, they set the activation date for April 2016, so people already here under the old rules wouldn't be affected. Bit unfair if they don't do the same for families ...

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:46 am

The article also seems to suggest that the changes will not be retrospective.
The home secretary, Theresa May, is expected to confirm that she will introduce a new minimum income requirement for a British "sponsor" without children of up to £25,700 a year, and a stringent English speaking test for foreign-born husbands, wives or partners of UK citizens applying to come to live in Britain on a family visa.
Visa or EEA family permit or leave to enter = Entry clearance.

Since UKBA lost the HSMP JRs in 2008 & 2009, they have not made any retrospective changes to immigration rules. IMHO, they will continue the practice .. for the fear of new JRs and the prospect to losing them on similar grounds.
Last edited by geriatrix on Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

carlyann
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Post by carlyann » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:50 am

I hope for everyone here already that the changes will not affect them. But it is of little comfort to the people who are due to submit their applications x
Hoping to be reunited soon

MWill
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Post by MWill » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:07 pm

Telegraph now saying the threshold will be 18k. Threshold for those with a partner and 3 kids will be 27k. A bit more reasonable, at least.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... oners.html#

m3y
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Post by m3y » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:27 pm

MWill wrote:Telegraph now saying the threshold will be 18k. Threshold for those with a partner and 3 kids will be 27k. A bit more reasonable, at least.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... oners.html#
18k seems alot more fairer... although the extension of the probationary period to five years is still a worry
- 10/05/2012 Applied in Islamabad
- 10/05/2012 Application Forwarded to Islamabad OC
- 23/05/2012 Visa application is under process at the British High Commission.
-09/10/2012 Visa Granted :)

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:32 pm

And,
The Home Secretary will also extend the probationary period of a non-EU spouse from two years to five and announces rules to keep out elderly relatives of migrants who might require extensive NHS treatment.
Unlike Guardian, Telegraph seems to be suggesting that the probationary period "will" increase to 5 years. And, Guardian did not comment about elderly relatives with likely high dependence on NHS.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

MWill
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Post by MWill » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:34 pm

sushdmehta wrote:And,
The Home Secretary will also extend the probationary period of a non-EU spouse from two years to five and announces rules to keep out elderly relatives of migrants who might require extensive NHS treatment.
Unlike Guardian, Telegraph seems to be suggesting that the probationary period "will" increase to 5 years. And, Guardian did not comment about elderly relatives with likely high dependence on NHS.
However, there's no mention of the truly terrifying Danish-style "attachment" requirement, which seems to have been quietly dropped.

I think the GuardiN article was speculation based on previous info, if you read it carefully. The Telegraph seem to have been given a leak.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:38 pm

MWill wrote:there's no mention of the truly terrifying Danish-style "attachment" requirement, which seems to have been quietly dropped.
But this one talks of "British values" tests ... in addition to new (read higher scores required) language tests.
MWill wrote:The Telegraph seem to have been given a leak.
Could be. As the article says:
The tough new stance follows a lengthy campaign by this newspaper and aims to combat a rise in so-called “sham marriages”
Also, the article suggests that the changes will be introduced next month - July!
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

aosun007
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Post by aosun007 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:56 am


krs133
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Post by krs133 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:20 am

What does the Telegraph mean when it says people 'will no longer be able to extend a visa simply by being in a relationship'? What category would that apply to?

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:04 am

krs133 wrote:What does the Telegraph mean when it says people 'will no longer be able to extend a visa simply by being in a relationship'? What category would that apply to?
i think they are probably referring to the suggestion that the ukba is going to try to dictate to the courts how to interpret article 8 meaning a migrant won't be able to extend their leave on family life grounds if they don't otherwise meet the rules. I don't see how they are going to able to achieve this however. I think the attempts to limit the scope of article 8 will be open to the most challenges.

BigEasy
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Post by BigEasy » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:40 am

Teresa May is on the Andrew Marr show right now stating that the figure is 18.6k, then 22k with a child, then additional 2.4k per extra child.

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