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Is my accommodation overcrowded?

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Frustratedandworried
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Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by Frustratedandworried » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:03 am

Hi guys,

Thank you in advance for any responses that I get. This forum has been invaluable to me and many others in this frustrating journey. I have just began get all the required documents together for a Spouse Visa application for my husband.

I have searched for this topic but because it's quite a specific question I didn't find an answer. I apologise if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

I currently live with my mother in a 4 bedroom housing association property. Other family members also live there. My daughter and I share a room. She's two years old. My brother is in one room. My mother and sister are in a room. And my other brother and his wife occupy another room. ( his wife isn't living here at the moment because she has returned to her country).

I spoke to a company that do the property inspection report and they said that it wouldn't be overcrowded according to the 1985 Housing Act, but by the standards of the 2004 Housing Act it would be. There is a large living room, making 5 rooms in total. There are also two bathrooms. My solicitor says that the Home Office go by the criteria in the 1985 Housing Act, but I am a little skeptical about that. Why wouldn't they use the more up to date act? Also, since they seem to have made everything else harder, why not this too?

My question is do you know which criteria they use? Am I likely to be refused based on lack of adequate accommodation? I really appreciate it. Thanks

vinny
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by vinny » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:18 am

See also Guidance.
Part X wrote:Changes to legislation:Housing Act 1985, PART X is up to date with all changes known to be in force on or before 09 December 2017. There are changes that may be brought into force at a future date. Changes that have been made appear in the content and are referenced with annotations.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by vinny » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:32 am

Frustratedandworried wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:03 am
I spoke to a company that do the property inspection report and they said that it wouldn't be overcrowded according to the 1985 Housing Act, but by the standards of the 2004 Housing Act it would be.
What is different in the 2004 Act?
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Frustratedandworried
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by Frustratedandworried » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:36 am

Hi Vinny

Thanks for replying so swiftly. I've read the legislation linked in that other post and it confirms what my solicitor was saying.

I can't help but worry though that they may use this as an excuse to refuse my application. Do you see any possibility of it being refused on the grounds that the accommodation is inadequate? Also does the inspection report have to be from the Local Authority? I went on the council website and I couldn't find that service, so I contacted other firms and was given quotes of up to £150. Many thanks again.

Frustratedandworried
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by Frustratedandworried » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:38 am

vinny wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:32 am
Frustratedandworried wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:03 am
I spoke to a company that do the property inspection report and they said that it wouldn't be overcrowded according to the 1985 Housing Act, but by the standards of the 2004 Housing Act it would be.
What is different in the 2004 Act?
He said that innthe 2004 Act the living room would not be classed as a bedroom and that a child under the age of 10 is not half a person but a whole person.

vinny
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by vinny » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:49 am

Appendix FM 1.0a: Family Life (as a Partner or Parent): 5-Year Routes wrote:8.3. Accommodation
This section applies to entry clearance and leave to remain applications.
To qualify for entry clearance or leave to remain as a partner on the 5-year route to settlement the applicant must meet the accommodation requirement in Appendix FM - Family Life as a Partner.
...
For further guidance on the accommodation requirement, see Family members - Maintenance & Accommodation
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Frustratedandworried
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by Frustratedandworried » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:07 am

Hi,

I've read all the documents that you linked Vinny, thank you. When I read that I felt secure that it would be sufficient as the living room can be used as a a bedroom. So my sister could use that as a bedroom so that she and my mother are not sharing a room.

However during my search for someone to do the property inspection report I came across this weblink removed by moderator
""Can I use the lounge as a bedroom?
If you have two separate lounges partitioned with a solid wall and individual doors from the hallway you can class one as a bedroom. If there are dividing doors or have a walk through lounge you cannot use it as a bedroom.
Can my child share my and my spouses/partner’s room?
Only very young children can, up to the age of 1 year old but they must be the biological or adoptive parent.""


I'm sorry if it seems that I'm asking the same question again but this has confused me because it's so different to what is said in the Home Office guidance and yet these companies claim to be licensed to carry out these inspections. I wouldn't put it past the Home Office to say one thing in their guidance and refuse it anyway.

My living room is one large room with a door it is not two rooms partitioned. I'm so lost because of the conflicting things being said by different inspection companies. Also, I don't think my council provides this service. If they did I would have got one from them and there would be no room for doubt. As long as the firm that I'm getting the report from is licensed to carry them out that should be accepted, am I correct?

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Casa
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by Casa » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:40 am

One issue to consider...are the Housing Association aware of how many occupants are currently living in the property and have you asked for their written permission for your spouse to join the household :?:

The Housing Association should also advise on overcrowding.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Frustratedandworried
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by Frustratedandworried » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:52 am

Hi Casa thanks for your reply.

My brother spoke to the Housing Officer who will be sending a copy of the Tenancy agreement since my mother doesn't know where her original one is. He will also be sending a letter that says he doesn't object to my husband moving in here. However, on the phone to my brother he says 6 people are allowed to live here but he is not putting that on the letter.

My brother's wife who I mentioned before doesn't actually live here but since my brother who is married to her lives here I thought it might be best to include her for a worst case scenario. It's complicated. They have just recently gotten married and she's in her home country which he has moved to. (She stayed with us briefly after the wedding). But since his job is here, he comes for a week out of every month (the country is in Europe) so he needs a room. I could just not mention her because she doesn't live here, isn't here now and isn't included on tenancy agreement. So if she's not included there are currently 5.5 people. My mother, myself, my 2 brothers, my sister and my daughter who's 2 years old.

Frustratedandworried
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by Frustratedandworried » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:02 am

Just to clarify the reason I initially included my brother's wife is that their plan was that whenever he travels back here for work she would come with him. He's here now but she's not, he is going back tomorrow. I don't know if she'll come next time.

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seagul
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Re: Is my accommodation overcrowded?

Post by seagul » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:23 am

Usually at least one room preferably double room in an unovercrowded property can fullfill the accomodation requirement for a couple without kids. In past there was no measurement of room required but as per part x which introduced on 9th December I think the room size is defined to be 110square feet. Some experience person like vinny/casa/cr001 should read part x which just introduced should clarify further.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/68/part/X
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

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