Married to UK Citizen abroad - what if he dies

Rachel_m · Post by **Rachel_m** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:57 pm

Sorry if this question sounds cynical but it's important to me.

I'm South African, I met my husband in the UK whilst on a work permit. I then changed to unmarried partner visa later on when I wanted to change my job. Before my 2 year probation expired, we moved to South Africa as my husband got offered a great job. The idea was that we'd stay here for 2 years and then go back.

The way things look now we may stay another year.

We've since got married and had a baby. Baby is registered as British.

We live in a very dangerous country in a very dangerous city. I really can't see myself livin here long term and I cannot wait to go back to the UK.

However : if anything should happen to my husband, god forbid, will I have ANY rights to return to the UK with my baby?

I currently have no spouse visa as we have no immediate plans to return so really I'm just a South African in the eyes of the UK.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Ps - I have no plans to kill my husband.

JAJ · Post by **JAJ** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:50 am

I'm not aware of any provision in the immigration rules allowing widows and widowers to immigrate to the United Kingdom.

If this is important to you then maybe you need to plan to move to the United Kingdom and become a British citizen.

Administrator · Post by **Administrator** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:37 pm

.

You will face intense opposition to immigrating back into the UK under the conditions you have described. You should begin planning immediately if you wish to ensure your return to the UK.

Without your husband, as per spouse visa, your primary options would be: student (not very good option), work (Tier 2) or highly skilled (Tier 1). Other options might be possible, but probably far more difficult.

You may want to be familiar with this case. The government appears to be attempting to set precedent with it, so the eventual outcome will be critically interesting for many immigrants.

To keep on the news, use this google search string:

Cabrera Swindon Arnel

and make sure to search the google news rather than just the google default for the internet in general.

Personally, I am thoroughly disgusted by the behavior of the UK government in this case:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... reg208.xml

Mother died after epidural injected into her arm
By Richard Savill
Last Updated: 1:53am GMT 08/01/2008

A mother died within three hours of giving birth after an epidural anaesthetic was mistakenly fed into her arm instead of her back, an inquest has heard.

[ ... ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/ ... th.society

Midwife denies blame for drug blunder that killed new mother

Owen Bowcott, The Guardian
Tuesday January 22 2008

[ ... ]

Marie To was caring for Mayra Cabrera, a Filipino theatre nurse, as she gave birth to son Zac in May 2004 at Great Western hospital in Swindon, Wiltshire.

Cabrera, 30, died of a heart attack less than three hours after the birth, an inquest heard. Her son survived.

[ ... ]

http://news.scotsman.com/uk/Man-told-to ... 3648284.jp

Published Date: 08 January 2008
Source: The Scotsman

Man told to leave UK after wife dies in drugs mix-up

A FILIPINO man is being deported from Britain because his wife, who died after a hospital blunder, is no longer working here, an inquest jury heard yesterday.

[ ... ]

Mr Cabrera has since been informed that, because she is no longer working, he must leave the country as soon as her inquest has concluded.

http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/ ... _death.php

Husband's outrage over wife's death
By Hayley Court
8:57am Tuesday 8th January 2008

THE husband of Mayra Cabrera, who died when a powerful anaesthetic was injected into her arm instead of her spine, has demanded justice over his wife's death.

Arnel Cabrera is facing deportation because his visa was dependent on his wife working.

He is currently fighting the Home Office to be allowed to stay in England and raise his son Zac.

[ ... ]

the Admin

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:26 pm

Admin,

That story is absolutely heartbreaking and utterly appalling! I really hope this story gets a LOT of attention and he is allowed to stay with his son.

JAJ · Post by **JAJ** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:08 pm

Administrator wrote:You may want to be familiar with this case. The government appears to be attempting to set precedent with it, so the eventual outcome will be critically interesting for many immigrants.

Without commenting on the mertis of cases like this really has nothing to do with what has been discussed here, as it is about the dependents of a work permit holders not someone who is on a spouse visa and is then bereaved.

Nor does it relate to the real question here which is whether an overseas widow of a British citizen can migrate to the United Kingdom.

Administrator · Post by **Administrator** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:28 pm

.

I was using that case to illustrate the current mindset in the current government.

I am unfamiliar with a 'widows visa,' although I expect there probably is some route that way.

However, I would also expect that route to be quite difficult and require documentation that is fully detailed and in order. One item that might be very helpful (if not outright necessary) is some proof that the spouses intended to come to the UK prior to the death of one of them.

I am involved in a similar case in Latvia with the wife of an Australian who died suddenly from a brain aneurysm that burst. Even though she has a child by him, and the child is registered as an Australian citizen, and there is extended family in Australia that want to help her immigrate, so far she has only been able to obtain one visit visa for 90 days in the past 24 months.

She is now financially drained and just too tired to continue fighting while working and raising her child alone. All that money, time and effort could have been spent creating a successful life in Australia, with an extended family of support. Australia really missed out in this case ... both this young woman and her son would have been model citizens.

One of the most tragic aspects of that case is that they fully intended to move to Australia. I know .. they are friends of mine and I discussed it with them often. But, the Australian government has taken a position that there is no proof of that intention. There is no documentation of that plan.

All this despite the personal efforts and recommendations of the Australian counsel here, who also knew this couple personally for years before this tragedy.

Thus, I preceded the entire post with the comment "begin planning immediately."

Taking action now and getting documentation in order now could help make the process easier and improve chances of success should the worst come to pass.

the Admin

PaperPusher · Post by **PaperPusher** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:03 pm

That is a terrible story.

Nevertheless, those articles do not appear to give the full background. There are lots of missing gaps & words used which do not seem to make sense. An example is that he is apparently going to expelled, but his application has been refused in another paragraph. It is the same with the other articles.

From a rare sympathetic Daily Mail article:

The couple were thrilled to discover Mrs Cabrera was pregnant.

But when she went into labour on May 11, 2004, something went terribly wrong

Mr Cabrera left the country two weeks after his wife's death so that relatives could help care for Zac.

Mr Cabrera, 38, returned to the UK for the inquest and to launch a civil claim for damages, but will have to leave when it ends.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... _id=506607

He has not been living in the UK for at least three years it appears. I have not read anything that says he was removed after his wife's death, or even that he was told to leave/liable to removal because of this.

The HO never comment on individual cases & newspaper articles like this always seem to leave out the full background.

To return to the OP, there are provisions in the immigration rules for bereaved spouses and civil partners, but not unmarried partners. The OP would have had to come to the UK already. There isn't anything like the Admin's scenario about having planned it, but the spouse dies before the move. I have never read about an appeal with that sort situation either.

(b) The requirements for indefinite leave to remain for the bereaved spouse or civil partner of a person who was present and settled in the United Kingdom are that:

(i)(a) the applicant was admitted to the United Kingdom or given an extension of stay for a period of 2 years as the spouse of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom in accordance with paragraphs 281 to 286 of these Rules; or

(b) the applicant was admitted to the United Kingdom or given an extension of stay for a period of 2 years as the unmarried or same sex partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom in accordance with paragraphs 295AA to 295F of these Rules and during that 2 year period married or formed a civil partnership the person whom he or she was admitted or granted an extension of stay to join; and

(ii) the person whom the applicant was admitted or granted an extension of stay to join died during that 2 year period; and

(iii) the applicant was still the spouse or civil partner of the person he or she was admitted or granted an extension of stay to join at the time of the death; and

(iv) each of the parties intended to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse or civil partner and the marriage was subsisting at the time of the death.

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/policy ... les/part8/

Regards

JAJ · Post by **JAJ** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:52 am

PaperPusher wrote: (b) The requirements for indefinite leave to remain for the bereaved spouse or civil partner of a person who was present and settled in the United Kingdom are that:

The pertinent issue here is that the mother was not "present and settled" in the United Kingdom.

JAJ · Post by **JAJ** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:54 am

Administrator wrote:.

I was using that case to illustrate the current mindset in the current government.

I am unfamiliar with a 'widows visa,' although I expect there probably is some route that way.

Not in the U.K. (at least other than an outside-rules concession).

I am involved in a similar case in Latvia with the wife of an Australian who died suddenly from a brain aneurysm that burst. Even though she has a child by him, and the child is registered as an Australian citizen, and there is extended family in Australia that want to help her immigrate, so far she has only been able to obtain one visit visa for 90 days in the past 24 months.

She is now financially drained and just too tired to continue fighting while working and raising her child alone. All that money, time and effort could have been spent creating a successful life in Australia, with an extended family of support. Australia really missed out in this case ... both this young woman and her son would have been model citizens.

One of the most tragic aspects of that case is that they fully intended to move to Australia. I know .. they are friends of mine and I discussed it with them often. But, the Australian government has taken a position that there is no proof of that intention. There is no documentation of that plan.

Has she applied for Ministerial discretion? That is not easy but is the only way.

I can provide a referral to a competent practitioner in Sydney (with experience in this area) if you wish.

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:46 pm

As you are the mother of a UK citizen, you always have the option to move to another EU country with your child. In some countries you will have to be self sufficient and have medical insurance (i.e. you will not be able to work). In others you will be able to work.

See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/chen-case/

There are a number of examples in this forum of people using the chen case to become resident in an EU member state.

Note that this will not work when moving to the UK.

Administrator · Post by **Administrator** » Sat May 10, 2008 10:07 am

.

Follow-up news this week:

Filipino whose wife died after blunder by NHS to be deported
By Jeremy Laurance, Saturday, 10 May 2008

A man whose wife died as a result of an NHS blunder has lost his right to remain in Britain, in what a coroner described yesterday as an "extraordinary" decision.

Arnel Cabrera, 39, came to Britain from the Philippines in 2003 to join his wife, Mayra, a theatre nurse, who worked at the Great Western Hospital in Swindon.

But a year later, Mrs Cabrera died at the same hospital after she was given an epidural during the birth of the couple's child which was mistakenly injected into her arm. The baby survived.

An inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killing and found the NHS trust had been guilty of gross negligence. Now the Home Office has told Mr Cabrera he has failed in his bid to remain in the UK.

David Masters, the Wiltshire coroner who presided over the inquest, said yesterday: "This is extraordinary. In view of the verdict reached at the inquest I find it difficult to appreciate how the Home Office has reached this decision."

In its letter of refusal, the Home Office said Mr Cabrera had "not established a family life with his son in the United Kingdom". It added: "As his son remains in the Philippines there are no insurmountable obstacles to his family life being continued overseas."

Alex Rook, the solicitor who handled Mr Cabrera's immigration case, said: "This is an absolutely dreadful decision. If Arnel's wife had not been killed, the family would be living happily here. I will be writing to the relevant Home Office ministers asking them to reconsider their decision." He added: "His wife is killed by one part of the Government [the NHS], then Arnel is told by another part of the Government that he has to leave."

Mr Rook said Mr Cabrera had taken his son, Zac, to the Philippines to be looked after by family until the inquest and related legal proceedings had concluded in the UK, but it was always his intention to build a future in Britain.

Mr Cabrera's personal injury lawyer, Seamus Edney, also reacted with disgust. "I am staggered by this decision and embarrassed on behalf of our government," he said. "Arnel was permitted to reside in Britain on the basis that his wife was working â€“ but when she is unlawfully killed by gross negligence by the NHS, he is told he is no longer welcome."

In a statement issued before Mr Cabrera lost his right to remain in the UK, he said he hoped the Government would show him "compassion". He added: "I have been unable to return to the Philippines during this difficult period and I desperately miss my young son, Zachary."

A spokesman for the Home Office said: "All applications for leave to enter or remain in the UK are carefully considered on their individual merits."

----
Â©independent.co.uk

I couldn't sleep at night if I was the one sending this man out of the country. I don't see how any human could.

CONCLUSION: It does not seem human beings are in charge in the Home Office.

the Admin

Administrator · Post by **Administrator** » Sat May 10, 2008 10:15 am

.

Additional note:

I decided to make this one a sticky.

Anyone attempting to come into the UK on the basis of marriage needs to be aware of this disgusting and vile precedent.

By this mechanism, the government can have anybody's spouse killed to ensure successful deportation of someone they want out of the country.

Absolutely a despicable precedent to set.

the Admin

JAJ · Post by **JAJ** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:18 pm

It should hardly come as a surprise that this dreadful government and its minions like to pursue "soft targets" rather than challenge tougher problems.

They do this in every other sphere of public policy.

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:49 pm

JAJ wrote:It should hardly come as a surprise that this dreadful government and its minions like to pursue "soft targets" rather than challenge tougher problems.

They do this in every other sphere of public policy.

It's playing to the gallery. It's also a result of trying to run the country by numerical targets: it can't sensibly be done in many areas of life.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:54 am

Grieving widow detained on way to husband's funeral wrote:Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 15:59

THE GRIEVING Thai widow of a popular Newquay fisherman was interrogated at immigration for five hours while her husband's body was transported home.

Distraught Thipwaree 'Oum' Paksi, who lost her husband of three years Stephen West in a biking accident in Thailand on March 27, thought she would never make it to his funeral.

Stephen, 37, and Oum, 31, had lived together in Thailand and Newquay and she was desperate to bring him back to Newquay to rest.

When she landed at terminal four at Heathrow airport on Sunday, April 12 she was hauled into the immigration department where she was searched and questioned about her journey to the UK. She said: "I was scared and nervous because I didn't understand what was going on or why they had stopped me.

"I can't believe the awful people in immigration; they're heartless.

"I wanted to bring him back here because he's English and he would want to rest at his home; if I had known it would be like this I would have laid him to rest in Thailand; it would've been a lot more peaceful."

Her friend Sasithorn Screech, who owns the Lotus Thai restaurant on Cheltenham Place, had travelled to Heathrow to collect Oum and bring her back to Newquay for the funeral.

Sasithorn said: "Oum had two months left on her visa but when I spoke to the lady in immigration she said that because her husband had died Oum's visa was cancelled immediately.

"I said 'her husbands body has landed, this is impossible; have some respect for him; she's bought someone's body all the way back from Thailand and your going to send her back?'

"They treated her like a criminal."

After hours of grilling, Oum was finally let into the country after an immigration advisor intervened, because of 'considerable compelling and compassionate circumstances'.

Stephen, who moved to Newquay from Birmingham as a child, was a keen fisherman who was well known around the harbour and the town and loved Thailand, where he frequently holidayed before meeting Oum in 2001.

Oum said: "He enjoyed his life so much and he would always get on with everybody.

"My family liked him, he would get on with everybody, he was a very friendly person.

"He enjoyed being free like a bird and liked travelling and working in the open, especially fishing.

"When he was in Thailand he liked to do gardening, play with the dogs and ride motorbikes."

His funeral took place at St Michael's Church on Wednesday, April 15 before he was buried at Fairpark Cemetery.

Immigration advisor Ralph Davies, an ex-immigration officer who is dealing with Oum's case, said: "The Border Agency changing their mind and allowing her in to the UK does not detract from the fact that she was initially refused entry.

"She was detained for five hours, during which time she was subjected to examination whilst her husband was being carted off in a hearse, and this on top of the uncertainty that she would be able to attend his funeral.

"What happened really is Kafkaesque and beyond belief."

A spokesman for the UK Border Agency said: "Before allowing someone entry to the UK, immigration officers may question them to clarify their immigration status or to explain how further applications can be made in-country.

"People are not able to 'switch' their entry clearance on arrival in the UK â€“ this should be done either before travel or after entry."

mochyn · Post by **mochyn** » Tue May 11, 2010 11:04 am

Where is the compassion?

Bree · Post by **Bree** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:26 am

bit late but I'd suggest returning to the UK and ensuring your citizenship asap, just to be safe...

ljlindsay01 · Post by **ljlindsay01** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:18 am

yes! you need to plan to move to the United Kingdom and become a British citizen

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Married to UK Citizen abroad - what if he dies

Married to UK Citizen abroad - what if he dies

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