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Older dependent relatives

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sam2106
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Post by sam2106 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:59 am

Greenie wrote:The form for in country applications is set(f ) but if they are applying from outside the UK it is vaf4a as you will see if you follow the links to the various guidance documents and pages on the first page of this thread.

The 5 year limit is explained in the public funds document i provided a link to in my previous thread.

Unless married to a British citizen 5 years residence in the UK with one year being free from immigration time restrictions is required. They can't just apply for citizenship after one year in the UK.

This category is very difficult and it is not possible to comment on whether your family members would meet the requirements on the basis of the information given alone. You should seek advice from a competent immigration solicitor or advisor as making a failed settlement application of this type can put a stop to any future visit visa applications.

Thanks a lot Greenie.

yes i found the mention for the 5 years limit and which benefits they can claim during the five years, which ones they cannot, e.g the remaining one which they can only claim after 5 years.

Wow this application cost £1850 per elderly parent..£3700 for 2 parents...plus no guarantee of success...thats a lot to risk

how much a solicitor will take on top? any recommendations?

> Unless married to a British citizen 5 years residence in the UK with one year being free from immigration time restrictions is required.They can't just apply for citizenship after one year in the UK.


What do you mean by the above please? Are you referring to this paragraph which i found in AN guidance booklet:

"To satisfy the residence requirement you should not have been absent for more than 90 days in the last 12 months. And the total number of days absence for the whole 5 year period should not exceed 450. If you are married to or in a civil partnership with a British citizen the total number of days absence for the whole 3 year period should not exceed 270."


thanks a lot!

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:35 am

I was referring to the standard requirements for citizenship which require 5 years residence not just one year of ilr.
Yes it is expensive and risky.

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:24 pm

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

sam2106
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Post by sam2106 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:04 pm

Thanks a lot Greenie and Vinny for the link.

I'll have to research a good OISC or Solicitor firm with good records success of ILR for elderly parents.

thanks enjoy your long weekend.

rajgri
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Elderly dependent visa

Post by rajgri » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:39 pm

Dear members, i am looking for advice with regards to the ILR application, I wish to file for my parents. My situation is that I am a british citizen although my parents are indian citizens and they live in india. my dad, age 67 yrs, was diagnosed with a terminal illness in early Jan 2012 and I have not been able to return to the UK since Jan 2012 as am in india with my dad and mum [age 68 yrs) as he requires care -both nursing and medical. Me being a doctor myself has proved vital in indian system to get/coordinate/ preempt medical help and so-on. I have one sister who is married, lives in another city with her husband/inlaws and son and its only every few months when she is able to visit parents on day visits and she is unable to look after my parents [which she is happy to confirm in writing]. Prior to my fathers illness, I had been supporting them financially at times but since december 2012, I had firstly started seding money via bank transfer then used my indian bank account to fund treatments [like chemo/hospital admissions and medications] . Their pensions are only able to fund perhaps 40-50 of their expenses now. I am now running out of options, my father needs me both for physical/financial dependence and now emotional dependence and I also need to start working again for which I need to return back to UK. If I returned to UK [with my dad], me and my wife [ who along with my 2 year old son is still in the UK for all these months, as she is working too... our family life is clearly being adversely affected too] can look after my dad and we can also employ carers too. Do I have a fair chance of success if I apply for ILR for my parents. They had visited me twice on visit visa in the past. I am very grateful for advice from members here.

kind regards

sam2106
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Re: Elderly dependent visa

Post by sam2106 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:34 pm

rajgri wrote:Dear members, i am looking for advice with regards to the ILR application, I wish to file for my parents. My situation is that I am a british citizen although my parents are indian citizens and they live in india. my dad, age 67 yrs, was diagnosed with a terminal illness in early Jan 2012 and I have not been able to return to the UK since Jan 2012 as am in india with my dad and mum [age 68 yrs) as he requires care -both nursing and medical. Me being a doctor myself has proved vital in indian system to get/coordinate/ preempt medical help and so-on. I have one sister who is married, lives in another city with her husband/inlaws and son and its only every few months when she is able to visit parents on day visits and she is unable to look after my parents [which she is happy to confirm in writing]. Prior to my fathers illness, I had been supporting them financially at times but since december 2012, I had firstly started seding money via bank transfer then used my indian bank account to fund treatments [like chemo/hospital admissions and medications] . Their pensions are only able to fund perhaps 40-50 of their expenses now. I am now running out of options, my father needs me both for physical/financial dependence and now emotional dependence and I also need to start working again for which I need to return back to UK. If I returned to UK [with my dad], me and my wife [ who along with my 2 year old son is still in the UK for all these months, as she is working too... our family life is clearly being adversely affected too] can look after my dad and we can also employ carers too. Do I have a fair chance of success if I apply for ILR for my parents. They had visited me twice on visit visa in the past. I am very grateful for advice from members here.

kind regards
As experienced moderators has acknowledged here, its a tricky area of law too apply for ILR for your elderly parents. I second their opinion that professional advice needs to be sought after.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:45 pm

Significant changes are being introduced from 09-Jul-12 to the immigration rules for elderly dependant relatives.

Please read clauses 118-125 of this document.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

sam2106
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Post by sam2106 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:19 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Significant changes are being introduced from 09-Jul-12 to the immigration rules for elderly dependant relatives.

Please read clauses 118-125 of this document.
This means whatever we have discussed will not apply now?

As of now, only one of the two parents need to be 65 without this exceptional circumstances imposition..if both parents under 65, then this exceptional circumstances, which is rather impossible, apply.

and now with the new rule both has to be under this same impossible exceptional circumstances be them 65 or under!!

It's a slap on the face! They should simply say this route is closed and not allowed anymore!

sam2106
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hi

Post by sam2106 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:55 am

any update on this please? we are now the 9th and part 8 family members have not yet changed in the rules and regulations

sushdmehta wrote:Significant changes are being introduced from 09-Jul-12 to the immigration rules for elderly dependant relatives.

Please read clauses 118-125 of this document.

Greenie
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Re: hi

Post by Greenie » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:41 pm

sam2106 wrote:any update on this please? we are now the 9th and part 8 family members have not yet changed in the rules and regulations

sushdmehta wrote:Significant changes are being introduced from 09-Jul-12 to the immigration rules for elderly dependant relatives.

Please read clauses 118-125 of this document.
the new rules for adult dependent relatives are set out in the relevant section of appendix FM and apply to applications made on or after 9th July. The old rules remain in place for applications that fall within the transitional arrangements.

shahidabegum417
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Dependent

Post by shahidabegum417 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:19 pm

:D
Last edited by shahidabegum417 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.

sam2106
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Re: Elderly Dependent Relative

Post by sam2106 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:39 pm

what is your problem then? you are jealous? something is churning inside your stomach..? do your own things and look after yourself! when you ask questions, ask questions which reflects & signifies respect and dignity for yourself..if you think you have time for these things, then you seriously have a problem and it shows the sort of person you are!

shahidabegum417 wrote:Hi, I am in a bit of a dilemma. Someone I know of is making a fraudulent application for their mother as an elderly dependent. The application was made before the 9th of July when the rules changed. Basically they are showing his mother as a widow even though her husband is alive in Bangladesh. They have a bad relationship but they are not divorced. Should I report this or should I have faith in the Border Agency that they will do the correct checks?

sam2106
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Re: hi

Post by sam2106 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:43 pm

i have no clue how to read the appendix..is the appendix saying anything on the points we raised before..can you please comment on the transitional arrangements? thanks
Greenie wrote:
sam2106 wrote:any update on this please? we are now the 9th and part 8 family members have not yet changed in the rules and regulations

sushdmehta wrote:Significant changes are being introduced from 09-Jul-12 to the immigration rules for elderly dependant relatives.

Please read clauses 118-125 of this document.
the new rules for adult dependent relatives are set out in the relevant section of appendix FM and apply to applications made on or after 9th July. The old rules remain in place for applications that fall within the transitional arrangements.

malwajatt
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New older dependant visa rules for elderly

Post by malwajatt » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:45 pm

Dear all,

Reading the new tough rules I just think it means no entry to any of our parents in uk.

How very cruel and inhumane

shahidabegum417
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Re: New older dependant visa rules for elderly

Post by shahidabegum417 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:48 pm

malwajatt wrote:Dear all,

Reading the new tough rules I just think it means no entry to any of our parents in uk.

How very cruel and inhumane
The UK government have been Put in a difficult position. It is not a right that because you are simply settled in this country you automatically have the right to settle your parents here. People know that when they settle heren their parents back home will eventually get old. Its a fact of life. The border agency needs to make it higher. What are the benefits to this country to bring elderly people here? A higher burden on the NHS?

malwajatt
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To shahida begum

Post by malwajatt » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:20 pm

Shahida
Just because the NHS is crumbling .... So does it mean that our elderly parents should pay by not coming to this country.

Secondly the only reason many people like us have settled is because the previous laws allowed our parents to join us in their old age.

Thirdly me and my wife are high rate tax payers ....that's the answer to ur question on what value does elderly parents add. They have given us the rights skills and talent so that we can pay taxes to support the hordes of unemployed, incapable and idle tax credit cheats in this country.

malwajatt

shahidabegum417
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Re: To shahida begum

Post by shahidabegum417 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:41 pm

malwajatt wrote:Shahida
Just because the NHS is crumbling .... So does it mean that our elderly parents should pay by not coming to this country.

Secondly the only reason many people like us have settled is because the previous laws allowed our parents to join us in their old age.

Thirdly me and my wife are high rate tax payers ....that's the answer to ur question on what value does elderly parents add. They have given us the rights skills and talent so that we can pay taxes to support the hordes of unemployed, incapable and idle tax credit cheats in this country.

malwajatt
Well, sorry mate thats life. Just because you pay taxes (like myself!) doesn't automatically give you the right to bring your family here. Like you say if your parents gave you the right skills etc you should have invested it in your country rather than leaving your parents to come to this country where its full of as you say 'hordes of unemployed, incapable and idle tax credit cheats!' I for one am glad the government is toughening up on this if it stops ungrateful people like yourself coming here!

malwajatt
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To Shahidabegum

Post by malwajatt » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:22 pm

Shahida

I do not know how u got the impression that I am ungrateful.

Having paid higher taxes into the exchequer and been a citizen, this country is as equally mine as is it is urs.

Besides it's none of ur business to advice us of which country we use our skills in.....ur name suggests u cannot be a native of this country either.so u or ur previous gen would have immigrated here as well......

Extreme anti immigrant mentality people like u should only hope that when they get old the nhs has not crumbled and left u in the cold.

Go on get a life ...

Ranjanx
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Post by Ranjanx » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:58 am

Shahidabegum and others, as mentioned in another thread, I include here my letter to my MP. Hopefully, it answers some of your questions on why it is unfair, at least to those whose decision to settle here was based on the previous laws.

Please let me know if any of the others are willing to join up or suggest any lawyers/organizations to help in the cause.

My letter to Maria Miller -
My wife and I are Indian nationals, settled in the UK with an Indefinite Leave to Remain and looking to go for UK nationality in the coming months. We had decided to stay here with the intent of settling down, provided my widowed mother would be able to join us here as a dependent adult relative once she attained the age of 65 years, as per the Immigration Laws at the time.

Now that she has very recently turned 65, we realized the latest changes to Immigration Law passed on 9th July 2012 do not allow her the option to stay with us as a parent in a gracefully healthy state but increasingly dependent nevertheless.

As mentioned in the Introduction in The Statement of Intent : Family Immigration document published by the Home Office, point 17 states -

"non-EEA adult dependent relatives will only be able to settle in the UK if they can demonstrate that, as a result of age, illness or disability, they require a level of long-term personal care that can only be provided in the UK by their relative here and without recourse to public funds"

(http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... am-mig.pdf)

I would like to humbly but firmly register my unhappiness and disappointment with this rule. The rule goes against quite a few human values and common sense, to say the least. It also suggests that the rhetoric about promoting healthier family ties for a better country are just that - words from politicians.

Further, I would request you to please take it up at the appropriate discussions in the House of Commons with the following to support my position and that of others affected by the changes -

1) My wife and I are both working with a healthy tax payments of 22% and 40% respectively over the last 6 years, entering the increasingly rare club of contributors to the UK economy without access to public funds.. We also contribute to the economy like every other sincere citizen by means of NHS contributions, VAT, council tax, TV license, charity contributions and many more.

2) As per Indian culture, it is my duty and right to be able to support my dependent parents. This duty is not expected to be passed on by paying off a maid or healthcare workers or asking some relative to do it for you, as the new rule suggests. This is a duty of a son or daughter, taken as a path to fulfill one's 'Dharma' - way of life.
People might consider me to be a religious person but I know the right values form wrong ones. I do honestly believe that the UK society has open arms for people of any culture. Taking care of aging parents is a matter of deep rooted culture that comes with immigrants to the shores of UK and therefore should be accepted.

3) As I understand, the economic state of affairs in UK, particularly the financial condition of old age homes, has shown that taking care of one's own parents is the most appropriate, wise and natural thing to do in this day and age. Even for someone not tied to the Indian culture.
The said changes to the Immigration policy above promotes exactly the opposite.

4) We have come to settle here, fully abiding with the laws of Immigration and otherwise. The laws at the time of our decision to settle expected us to wait for having our dependent parents join us when they need us to be with them. Given the recent change as per the rule above, it feels like being cheated as the lawmakers have suddenly changed their mind about how we treat our parents. If there is a genuine case for the new restrictions to apply, at the very least it needs to be applied with some transitional arrangements in place for this category of applicants, just like all other categories.

5) My request for staying here, working here and then settling here were all based on how much I could earn and contribute to the economy with my skills as a professional. Apparently, UK wants me to continue working at least at my current level and therefore would like me to stay here as a human being. If the lawmakers were to apply a preferential treatment to one set of immigrants only (EEA nationals), it might be a better consideration to provide better rights to those contributing more to the economy. That is immigrants like me coming through the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme or its equivalent.
It is not my case that EEA immigrants might or might not be contributing as much to the UK economy as immigrants from Non-EEA countries arriving via Highly Skilled Migrant Programmes. In fact, I believe everyone has the same right and duty to support their dependent parents.

To close, I would re-iterate that the changes to this law are a big factor in deciding the future of my family's stay here. As I see it, a win-win situation for both United Kingdom and me as an Immigrant, economically, culturally and on humanitarian grounds would be to allow me to request a dependent Visa for my dependent mother. I would very much like to stay here with my dignity and humanity intact rather than go out again looking for a country that values me as a human and not just another set of hands paying to the treasury, expecting me to give up my culture, values and parents in return.

harv
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Re: To Shahidabegum

Post by harv » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:03 am

malwajatt wrote:Shahida

I do not know how u got the impression that I am ungrateful.

Having paid higher taxes into the exchequer and been a citizen, this country is as equally mine as is it is urs.

Besides it's none of ur business to advice us of which country we use our skills in.....ur name suggests u cannot be a native of this country either.so u or ur previous gen would have immigrated here as well......

Extreme anti immigrant mentality people like u should only hope that when they get old the nhs has not crumbled and left u in the cold.

Go on get a life ...


The problem is in the way we think.

We do not realise how much a problem effects us until we experience it first hand. Others cannot feel the pain of your wounds as they say.

We can debate and debate and nothing will come out of it. The simple truth of life is that if something is good for someone, the same things can be bad for others. The whole world is different (which is good), thus we have different needs.

Best of luck with your application(s)
Feb 2012 - Spouse Visa - New Delhi
Mar 2012 - Documents collected - VISA Granted
March 2014 - ILR Granted
Apr 2015 - Applied for Naturalisation
Nov 2015 - Naturalised

shahidabegum417
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Re: To Shahidabegum

Post by shahidabegum417 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:53 pm

£££
Last edited by shahidabegum417 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

malwajatt
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The new rules can be challenged

Post by malwajatt » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:15 pm

To shahida

the new rules are only there for those who are not aware of the laws and to keep people like u happy.

One can still challenge the rules in court and win as there are enough provisions in the uk and European law. :?:

shahidabegum417
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Re: The new rules can be challenged

Post by shahidabegum417 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:16 pm

malwajatt wrote:To shahida

the new rules are only there for those who are not aware of the laws and to keep people like u happy.

One can still challenge the rules in court and win as there are enough provisions in the uk and European law. :?:
So go and challenge it. LOL

harv
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Re: The new rules can be challenged

Post by harv » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:16 am

malwajatt wrote:To shahida

the new rules are only there for those who are not aware of the laws and to keep people like u happy.

One can still challenge the rules in court and win as there are enough provisions in the uk and European law. :?:
I to be honest cannot say if I can imagine the frustration because my parents are with me.

It has been forced by the politicians does not make it just for everyone. Democracy gives rights to everyone challenge the rules and if justified should be changed to meet the needs of the public better.

Some people would view an argument from their stand point but others may have a completely different view from where they are standing. This does not mean one of them is incorrect, we are just seeing things from different goggles as per say.

I wish you well and best of luck with your application. I hope you are able to bring your parents here!
Feb 2012 - Spouse Visa - New Delhi
Mar 2012 - Documents collected - VISA Granted
March 2014 - ILR Granted
Apr 2015 - Applied for Naturalisation
Nov 2015 - Naturalised

Viv1000
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Post by Viv1000 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:21 pm

Ranjanx- good letter o he MP and I completely agree with your points... Have you received any replies or any thoughts on how you are planning to apply for your parents dependant visa

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