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RESIDENCE CARD holder ...What happens if?

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strawberry
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RESIDENCE CARD holder ...What happens if?

Post by strawberry » Sat May 15, 2010 11:44 am

Dear All,

My husband , who is non-EEA and I ( EEA ) got married in 2008 abroad.
He arrived in the UK on a FP and then applied for the Residence Documentation, which is valid until 2014.

Unfortunately, we are hoping and planning for different things in life and I decided that the best way would be to separate.
He is not happy about the decision and every time i am trying to talk to him , he is very upset and thinks that I will change my mind...
I want to live this country, but at the same time I sacrifice so much so far and I do not want him to lose his residency in this country. I do care about him as he is my best friend.

Could you please advise what happens if I leave and is it true that we must be married for 3 years before he could retain his rights of staying in the UK?
Where could I find all relevant information?
How can i go about the divorce as we did not register this marriage anywhere in the UK , we have only the Certificate of the marriage in English?

Please advise if you can...

Wanderer
Diamond Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:46 pm
Ireland

Post by Wanderer » Sat May 15, 2010 11:54 am

Yes has to be three years one of which in UK.

Remember you would be commiting an offence if you 'helped' him when in reality your marriage wasn't subsisting, I'm afraid you cannot decide who can and cannot be granted PR, it's the laws that decide.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

strawberry
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Post by strawberry » Sat May 15, 2010 12:12 pm

Wanderer wrote:Yes has to be three years one of which in UK.

Remember you would be commiting an offence if you 'helped' him when in reality your marriage wasn't subsisting, I'm afraid you cannot decide who can and cannot be granted PR, it's the laws that decide.

Wanderer, Thank you for your reply.

I am aware and responsible for my actions.
At the same time you should not be judging my situation and stating that I married him just to help him and if my marriage is real or not.
Being judged is the last thing I need out of this forum

Wanderer
Diamond Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:46 pm
Ireland

Post by Wanderer » Sat May 15, 2010 12:27 pm

Don't know why I bother!
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

Pakhtoon
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post by Pakhtoon » Sat May 15, 2010 12:34 pm

Wanderer wrote:Don't know why I bother!
Haha
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post by Pakhtoon » Sat May 15, 2010 12:41 pm

strawberry wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Yes has to be three years one of which in UK.

Remember you would be commiting an offence if you 'helped' him when in reality your marriage wasn't subsisting, I'm afraid you cannot decide who can and cannot be granted PR, it's the laws that decide.

Wanderer, Thank you for your reply.

I am aware and responsible for my actions.
At the same time you should not be judging my situation and stating that I married him just to help him and if my marriage is real or not.
Being judged is the last thing I need out of this forum
As Wanderer said, in order for him to be able to retain his residency, you must have been married for three years and one of those, you should have lived in the UK.

Besides, he derives his right to live and work in the UK from your exercising treaty rights in the UK ( and of course marriage ). If you leave UK, he looses that right.

But yes, since you want to stay married just to help him with his immigration status, you will be committing a crime. Sure you don't want to be judged but asking for help in committing a crime is also against the T&Cs of this forum.
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

strawberry
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Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 11:12 am

Post by strawberry » Sat May 15, 2010 1:13 pm

Pakhtoon wrote:
strawberry wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Yes has to be three years one of which in UK.

Remember you would be commiting an offence if you 'helped' him when in reality your marriage wasn't subsisting, I'm afraid you cannot decide who can and cannot be granted PR, it's the laws that decide.

Wanderer, Thank you for your reply.

I am aware and responsible for my actions.
At the same time you should not be judging my situation and stating that I married him just to help him and if my marriage is real or not.
Being judged is the last thing I need out of this forum
As Wanderer said, in order for him to be able to retain his residency, you must have been married for three years and one of those, you should have lived in the UK.

Besides, he derives his right to live and work in the UK from your exercising treaty rights in the UK ( and of course marriage ). If you leave UK, he looses that right.

But yes, since you want to stay married just to help him with his immigration status, you will be committing a crime. Sure you don't want to be judged but asking for help in committing a crime is also against the T&Cs of this forum.
Look, guys, as I posted earlier, i only asked for a straight forward reply .
I did not ask " for help in committing a crime".
I did not say I married him just to HELP him.
I married him more that 2 years ago, but was in a relationship with him since 2003 and I believe that means something.
We are going through a rough path at the moment.
Anyway , this forum is not the one , where you splash your relationship or marriage probs.

Plum70
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Post by Plum70 » Sun May 16, 2010 10:06 am

If you are "going through a rough patch", like every marriage does, perhaps you both should continue working towards the sustainability of your marriage? Anyone who goes into a genuine marriage knows not to take separation or divorce lightly. I do not doubt that you are one of such and hope things resolve themselves as should.

As other posters have pointed out; not in judgement but in fact - assisting your husband in attaining PR where your marriage is no longer subsisting is simply unlawful.

maganzo
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Post by maganzo » Sun May 16, 2010 10:16 am

Many people reading this post will be sceptical .I am sure H/O guys read this kind of post and and be sceptical of all genuine EE2 applications.

mrlookforward
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Post by mrlookforward » Sun May 16, 2010 12:16 pm

Pakhtoon wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Don't know why I bother!
Haha
I have been put on thin ice too. guess for what? for saying something which is correct and sound by rules and guidance, and arguing with someone who was misleading and ignoring current rules/guidance.

the mod says everyone has right to their opinion. What I say is, this is not a gossip forum, and why should I keep silent when somene gives misleading and wrong advice, and sounds as if they are giving right advice.

geriatrix
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Location: does it matter?

Post by geriatrix » Sun May 16, 2010 12:42 pm

mrlookforward wrote:
Pakhtoon wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Don't know why I bother!
Haha
I have been put on thin ice too. guess for what? for saying something which is correct and sound by rules and guidance, and arguing with someone who was misleading and ignoring current rules/guidance.

the mod says everyone has right to their opinion. What I say is, this is not a gossip forum, and why should I keep silent when somene gives misleading and wrong advice, and sounds as if they are giving right advice.
You have been put on "thin ice" for using derogatory remarks and inappropriate language, and not for voicing your "honest" opinions even though you may wish to believe otherwise.

Nobody here stops you from correcting a wrong suggestion / inaccurate advice, but this doesn't mean that you use the opportunity to insult the other member(s).


regards

mrlookforward
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Post by mrlookforward » Sun May 16, 2010 12:56 pm

sushdmehta wrote:
mrlookforward wrote:
Pakhtoon wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Don't know why I bother!
Haha
I have been put on thin ice too. guess for what? for saying something which is correct and sound by rules and guidance, and arguing with someone who was misleading and ignoring current rules/guidance.

the mod says everyone has right to their opinion. What I say is, this is not a gossip forum, and why should I keep silent when somene gives misleading and wrong advice, and sounds as if they are giving right advice.
You have been put on "thin ice" for using derogatory remarks and inappropriate language, and not for voicing your "honest" opinions even though you may wish to believe otherwise.

Nobody here stops you from correcting a wrong suggestion / inaccurate advice, but this doesn't mean that you use the opportunity to insult the other member(s).


regards
Sorry, you can ban me from here if you want to. But if someone on here repeatedly fails to understand a simple written statement and then argues abt it, then I am sorry, i will have to say that they are dumb.

geriatrix
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 pm
Location: does it matter?

Post by geriatrix » Sun May 16, 2010 6:25 pm

No one is forcing you (or anyone) to visit this website and /or to post messages. You do it at your own wish ... but if you decide to post ... you must abide by the terms of this website.

If you wish to insult others because you judge them as dumb or make fun of others' posts, then this website is not the one that you should visit or post on. Simple!

I hope this clarifies .. for good!



regards

Kitty
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Location: Southampton, UK

Post by Kitty » Mon May 17, 2010 7:56 am

Plum70 wrote:If you are "going through a rough patch", like every marriage does, perhaps you both should continue working towards the sustainability of your marriage? Anyone who goes into a genuine marriage knows not to take separation or divorce lightly. I do not doubt that you are one of such and hope things resolve themselves as should.

As other posters have pointed out; not in judgement but in fact - assisting your husband in attaining PR where your marriage is no longer subsisting is simply unlawful.
Wise advice, I think.

However, are the requirements for the status of a marriage under the EEA Regs the same as those under the Immigration Rules? The Regulations only refer to the requirement to have been married for at least 3 years before "the initiation of termination proceedings" (i.e. divorce). They don't actually mention things like trial separation or marital breakdown where there is no divorce. The phrase "subsisting" doesn't arise, and there is no mention of "living together": commencement of divorce proceedings seems to be the only deadline.

On that reading, the UK Border Agency cannot look behind a couple's marital status to see if their relaitonship was "subsisting" on any given date. The start of divorce proceedings would be the only guide they could use. Since many people whose marriage has broken down go for years without actually divorcing, maybe we should assume that the Regulations are intended to be less stringent than the Immigration Rules, and that people who delay divorcing but still apply for a retained right are not necessarily behaving "unlawfully".

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Mon May 17, 2010 8:24 am

Kitty wrote:However, are the requirements for the status of a marriage under the EEA Regs the same as those under the Immigration Rules? The Regulations only refer to the requirement to have been married for at least 3 years before "the initiation of termination proceedings" (i.e. divorce). They don't actually mention things like trial separation or marital breakdown where there is no divorce. The phrase "subsisting" doesn't arise, and there is no mention of "living together": commencement of divorce proceedings seems to be the only deadline.
Well, I think you would have to look at this from a wider angle. Such a case could possibly be interpreted as a marriage of convenience. Whether that's legally really possible or not I can't tell but in practice it would probably be just very difficult to proof.

Kitty
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Location: Southampton, UK

Post by Kitty » Mon May 17, 2010 9:11 am

86ti wrote: Well, I think you would have to look at this from a wider angle. Such a case could possibly be interpreted as a marriage of convenience. Whether that's legally really possible or not I can't tell but in practice it would probably be just very difficult to proof.
Mmmm, yes. Good point, and one the OP's husband will need to consider.

I think that if strawberry has evidence of a relationship going back to 2003 though, and subsequent marriage, then it is likely to be provable that the marriage was genuine.

Can a genuine marriage become one "of convenience"? A thought, but not something I know about!

Pakhtoon
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Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post by Pakhtoon » Mon May 17, 2010 11:06 am

Kitty wrote:
Can a genuine marriage become one "of convenience"? A thought, but not something I know about!
Very simple. You enter into a genuine marriage but then you realise you don't want it anymore but want to keep it till your immigration is sorted out. Genuine goes sham.
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

Kitty
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Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:54 am
Location: Southampton, UK

Post by Kitty » Mon May 17, 2010 11:44 am

Yes, but the definition of the end of a marriage seems to be different under the Immigration Rules and under the EEA Regs.

Under the Immigraiton Rules a marriage must be "subsisting" and the parties "intend to live together" in order for a spouse visa or FLR application to be made.

Under the EEA Regs, it seems that a non_EEA spouse continues to me treated as being married to a qualified person until divorce proceedings are started.

Many people do not start divorce proceedings for some time after their marriage has effectively broken down.

It is not necessarily indicative of deception to put off starting divorce proceedings (as Plum70 suggests, many people have quite serious troubles and still "pull through": however, these kinds of problems do present serious obstacles for applicants under the Immigraiton Rules if they happen at around the 2-year mark when ILR is a possibility).

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