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Settlement visa application from India - 2011

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé/e | Ancestry

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sKAUR
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Post by sKAUR » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:35 pm

Hey all

My husband rang the Bhc delhi they had said that although the 24 week period is up they dont take in consideration the holidays and weekends!i thought that only happened in the application period time. The went on to say he will be sent an email or be contacted via telephone towards the end of the month or beginning ing of feb not sure whether this means they are still considering or will end up sending everything back to the tribunal. Any advice would be appreciated
applied:vfs new dehli 01/05/12
application under process at bhc dehli 01/02/12
visa refused 13/07/2012
appeal lodged 17/07/2012
ecm to respond by the 09/01/2013
Visa refusal decision upheld by ecm
Appeal hearing 03/04/2013
Visa stamped on 20th may 2013

SAMISPOUSAL
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India

Re: Settlement visa application from India - 2011

Post by SAMISPOUSAL » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:06 am

any body from gujarat and maharashtra area ?
pls comment on your experiences

any tips

what worked for you

where did you go for your english test

please give contact details of some eng coaching places and visa consultants
British man sponsoring Indian wife.Application Pune --Mumbai 18 DEC 2013 Requested further info 27 01 2014

one2ka4
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Post by one2ka4 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:20 am

we applied from AHMEDABAD on 19th nov, so will probably hear some news in february.. My wife got the english classes in Jamnagar, Gujarat, and gone through IELTS exam.. Where about are you thinking of applying from??

syed24
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Post by syed24 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:03 am

I am a British national - we have applied a settlement visa for my wife who holds an Indian passport

Applied Hyderabad vfs on : 6th December 2012
Application at Chennai BHC : 11th December 2012 (Recvd SMS - Application is under process at the British High Commission)

Sent an email to BHC Chennai - Requesting if there is any possibility for the application to speed up as I would be travelling shortly and would like to take my wife along with me back to the UK

3rd Jan - Application still under process

Any thoughts?

srik_1983
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Post by srik_1983 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:55 pm

Hopefully you have filled in the intended date of travel box in the form.

You can check the visa processing times here (although it takes to load and does not always load successfully!).
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/count ... %20English

Most people in this post have been waiting for over 2 months with no reply, so would like to hear about your experience.


syed24 wrote:I am a British national - we have applied a settlement visa for my wife who holds an Indian passport

Applied Hyderabad vfs on : 6th December 2012
Application at Chennai BHC : 11th December 2012 (Recvd SMS - Application is under process at the British High Commission)

Sent an email to BHC Chennai - Requesting if there is any possibility for the application to speed up as I would be travelling shortly and would like to take my wife along with me back to the UK

3rd Jan - Application still under process

Any thoughts?

syed24
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Post by syed24 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:52 am

Yes We did fill in the intended date of travel which has gone past now - still no joy?
srik_1983 wrote:Hopefully you have filled in the intended date of travel box in the form.

You can check the visa processing times here (although it takes to load and does not always load successfully!).
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/count ... %20English

Most people in this post have been waiting for over 2 months with no reply, so would like to hear about your experience.


syed24 wrote:I am a British national - we have applied a settlement visa for my wife who holds an Indian passport

Applied Hyderabad vfs on : 6th December 2012
Application at Chennai BHC : 11th December 2012 (Recvd SMS - Application is under process at the British High Commission)

Sent an email to BHC Chennai - Requesting if there is any possibility for the application to speed up as I would be travelling shortly and would like to take my wife along with me back to the UK

3rd Jan - Application still under process

Any thoughts?

drabhishek82
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Location: Glasgow

Re: Hiii

Post by drabhishek82 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:13 pm

rsathish wrote:
sraz wrote:Hi ALL,
With Almighty's grace , got my passport stamped with visa today ... No words to express my happiness. Thanks to all the members in this forum for such an excellent effort .

All the very best for all those who are waiting for visa.. :)

Reapplied : 19-09-'12 @ VFS Cochin
Tracking status changed : 21-12-'12
Visa granted : 22-12-'12
Congrats sraz, just in time for Christmas.

Could you tell me was it a spouse dependent visa? if so, for how many yrs was it granted?

Thanks.

Hey rsatish

Any news from chennai BHC yet ?

su411
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Post by su411 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:33 pm

My application status changed this evening...

I applied at the New Delhi VFS on 4/11/12 and the application was 'under process' at the BHC on the same day. Today is exactly 3 months since I filed, and my status says 'Processed application delivered to Blue Dart on 04/01/2013.

My husband and I have our fingers (and toes!) tightly crossed, and my parents have a bottle of champagne on ice already in anticipation of getting rid of me.

Wish me luck please.

drabhishek82
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Post by drabhishek82 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:14 pm

su411 wrote:My application status changed this evening...

I applied at the New Delhi VFS on 4/11/12 and the application was 'under process' at the BHC on the same day. Today is exactly 3 months since I filed, and my status says 'Processed application delivered to Blue Dart on 04/01/2013.

My husband and I have our fingers (and toes!) tightly crossed, and my parents have a bottle of champagne on ice already in anticipation of getting rid of me.

Wish me luck please.
Hi su411

Wish you all the very best of luck, it's 100% positive am sure.

Was it settlement dependant u applied for or is it other form of dependant visa, we applied on the 4th Oct 2012 for settlement dependant and we were hoping we will hear some news today being the 60th working day but but ours is still under process :( still waiting

Wish u all the luck again

su411
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Post by su411 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:18 pm

I applied as the partner of a British citizen, dependent for settlement.

srik_1983
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Post by srik_1983 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:32 am

Congrats, let us know of the positive outcome when you see it ....

BTW I wouldnt be surprised if they have a quota on number of visa's they can issue each month to meet the wider net immigration "targets" ...

su411 wrote:I applied as the partner of a British citizen, dependent for settlement.

su411
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Post by su411 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:38 pm

Received passport a little while ago. They have refused my visa. While I can allow some points, other reasons are ridiculous. Posting the letter for refusal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REFUSAL OF ENTRY CLEARANCE

Your Application

You have applied for an entry clearance as a partner under Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. I have considered your application under Paragraph EC-P.1.1 of Appendix FM of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules. You can read these rules at:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... tionrules/

The Decision

EC-P.1.1(d) - Section E-ECP: Eligibility for entry clearance as a partner

Relationship Requirements
ECO Reasons For Refusal

You have stated on the visa application form that your relationship with your sponsor commenced on 19/09/2008 and that you would see each other every six months. In addition you also stated at Q1.19 of appendix 2 of the visa application that you started living with your sponsor in October 2008 in Mumbai. You have not however submitted any evidence that your sponsor was in India at that time and how long he was here. In addition you have not submitted a full copy of his passport(s) to show his visits to India including the actual marriage visit. I note that you have also stated that this is the first marriage for you both but this is not an arranged marriage. There is no evidence that you did live or cohabit together prior to getting married. I have noted the age of the sponsor and it is unusual in Indian culture for him to marry so late and for couples to live together before marriage. I am not satisfied that you are in a genuine and subsisting relationship. I therefore am not satisfied that your relationship with your sponsor is genuine and subsisting or that you intend to live together permanently in the UK. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. (E-ECP.2.6 & 2.10)


Financial Requirements
ECO Reasons For Refusal

Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirements as defined paragraph E-ECP.3.3. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements of the Rules, your sponsor needs a gross income of at least 18,600 per annum.

You stated on your visa application form that your sponsor is a self employed consultant. A letter from ****** Chartered Accountants is dated 24/09/2012 giving details of your sponsor's claimed income for tax year 2011/12 and projected income for tax year 2012/13. You have indicated on the visa application form that your husband has been a sole trader for 18 months. There is no indication of any previous employment or P45 or P60 from previous tax years. There is the self assessment tax return but no indication that this tax has yet been paid or that your sponsor's national insurance contributions are up to date.

I must therefore look at the rules relating to self employed sponsors and in doing so I note the following documents are a requirement to demonstrate the sponsor's income:-

Details of amount of tax payable for the last financial year;
Amount of tax actually paid and corresponding evidence;
Latest annual self assessment tax return to HMRC and statement of account;
Proof of registration with HMRC as self employed;
Monthly corporate or business bank statements;
Evidence of ongoing self employment through class 2NI contributions or current appointment reports.


In your case the sponsor has submitted the accountants reports noted above. There are no other specified documents as noted above. The sponsor's Santander Bank statements show a balance of 1418 on 02/08/2012. This is not sufficient to meet the financial requirements. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules (E-ECP.3.1)

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet all the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have to grant the ECO's point in that we failed to submit proof of my husband's visits to India, viz. his Indian visas and entry stamps. However, I did submit screenshots of the inbox of all our emails to each other from the beginning of our relationship (there were a substantial number.) Also there were photos of us from the time we got together till after our wedding. Plus phone bills from both of us showing evidence of daily long phone calls (minimum an hour every day). I don't see how else one can prove a genuine relationship. To say that it is unusual for people to get married at a late age and to live together before doing so, simply because it does not happen in India, is very odd. To imply that we must be lying about the same, and therefore it is not a genuine and subsisting marriage is frankly unbelievable.

My husband showed his gross annual income to be much higher than 18600. The point about his closing balance was odd too, since we had given sufficient evidence that he was supporting me financially in India, and every month would remit large amounts to me via Western Union. Irrespective, he had proved himself financially able to provide for me in the UK.
Also, we had given proof of my husband's employment with a renowned MNC. He had been retained by them as consultant for a period of 2 years which came to an end shortly before we applied. My husband was not a sole trader at the time, nor have we said he was. We have given all evidences of his payments from said company as evidence too. To expect monthly corporate statements from a firm that had barely started up, is naive. They cannot have had a flow of income when they had barely opened shop.
The tax point is a sticky one, granted. My husband hasn't shown previous tax returns and the current one was declared as due in January. So in fact he will be paying his taxes this month. This I cannot argue. However, the accountants had given all proofs of my husband being registered as self employed, so that's odd too. At the time of application, the National Insurance details could not be couriered to me in time. So I wrote in the covering letter that I would be willing to submit the same at any time the ECO wished, since the courier service had failed to deliver until a day after.


I know there are fair arguments that the ECO has made - points we were afraid would come up too. However, for the rest there is little sense. My husband and I have known each other for around 10 years now, and have been in a relationship since 2008. There was enough given to prove both the above. No point flogging a dead horse now.

Now we move swiftly on to Plan B. My husband will move down to India for the duration of the appeals process. As the ECO so astutely observed, we both chose to get married at a later age. So we need to get our family started. I will move back to Bombay from my parents' house and return to full time work, which I had given up to move to the UK. We had already laid our contingency plans in place so there is a well-paying consultancy waiting for my husband as soon as he gets to Bombay. He will have to remain in transit between London and India to take care of his business concerns. Naturally, we have sacked the solicitors we had retained for this purpose and are now retaining new ones.

A couple of questions. We are choosing to go with the oral hearing at the tribunal rather than a paper hearing. Is there a difference in the timeline for the two? If anyone thinks there is anything more we can do to prove this is a genuine relationship, please do tell me. I have no more evidence of any kind to show. Being an intensely private person, I am repulsed by the thought of laying our emails open to some stranger's eyes, even though there is nothing personal there. I should have thought that screenshots of the inbox named for my husband, containing innumerably emails between us dating from November 2008 to 2 days before applying would have been sufficient. It boggles me to think that perhaps I may need to submit screenshots of my Facebook Timeline from 2008 onwards detailing our relationship online, and that this may be enough. :shock:

Any help given will be most appreciated. In the meantime, we soldier on.

Thank you.

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:53 pm

The refusal is typical Indo subcontinents refusal since the new rules came into force in that marriage is not genuine or subsisting and that the sponsor has failed to meet the requirements of the minimum amount of income, one needs to be earning to qualify for the rules.

The said Appendix FMSE is a goo document to read before one apply s. It looks as though you and the solicitor your hubby employed was not competent enough to tell you that the application would fail if you fail to provide the necessary documents.

You yourselves admits that the ECO has valid points for refusal and that you failed to provide some of the necessary documents.Unfortunately what is done is done and you have to go the next stage, which is the appeal itself.

You obviously need a good solicitor to counter argue the points of refusal (unless you forget the appeal and instead lodge a fresh application and this time make sure you provide the documents requested particular the one is the second point of refusal i,e hubby's financial docs as per ECO request)
The first point can be proven and is not as difficult as the second point.

You talk about Plan B. I don't know whether that may be a good idea for your hubby to leave Uk to go back to India and work there along with yourself. I think he would be best staying here and trying to earn enough to meet the financial requirement. In fact if you start to work in India and earn a salary, you can combine both the salary's to meet the new requirement,

As for starting a family to try and prove a point that you are genuinely married for this purpose, i don't think you will need to go that extreme, as you will have top earn even more to meet financials requirements/

If you go for a hearing don't go for a paper hearing but go for an oral hearing,but this means either your hubby or if he employs a solicitor in UK , they will have to attend hearing.

My advice would be to forget appeal and make fresh application as the cost and time will be same if you appeal or reapply. Both will cost the same ( if you were to employ a solicitor to act for you on your appeal)

su411
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Post by su411 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:21 pm

Your first few points are fair. There was a fair deal of ineptitude with the application itself. That can be remedied. The solicitors we retained for the purpose will be fired on Monday, once my husband has given them an earful. We, to the best of our ability, did read the guidelines provided. We are educated enough to have realised there were blanks we needed to fill in. However, we reposed far too much faith in the solicitors, and are now reaping the consequences.

Plan B is simply so my husband and I can actually be together. We have lived apart much longer than we did before we were married, and it is an unnatural state for us. As far as my husband's work is concerned, he will travel between London and Bombay to keep his business concerns going. Since these matters have already been discussed with his partners, and since a substantial part of their business in Indo-centric, it is a viable move, albeit temporary. To make it financial more palatable he will take on the consultancy I mentioned in my earlier post.
We realised and deeply regret the need to have submitted much more of his financial and company details. This will be redressed in the appeal.

I was quite clear that the reason we wish to start a family is our respective ages. I am 35 and my husband 46. I would consider it a highly irresponsible action to bring a child into this world simply to prove a point to some unnamed, faceless ECO. One of the main reasons my husband and I got married almost 2 years ago was to start a family. Ill-health has not permitted me to do so before. Now, I see no reason to wait any longer.

We have considered every option available to us. We will be filing the appeal within the period stated.We have left the option of re-applying open, and will consider it seriously once the appeal is lodged. I understand one may appeal AS WELL AS re-apply.

We are having the accountants take a fresh look at our financials. If there is a shortfall (which there wasn't before), my father will give us a sum of GBP 6,000 or INR 10 lacs to cover the same, which we intend to lock into a fixed deposit. Will this work?

One thing I would like to know is whether one can appeal to submit certain evidence after the last date of appeal? My husband's company has a few deals which are maturing. It is improbable that any may do so within 28 days. Can we request to submit documentation of the same after the last date? Any one single deal will take care of all the financial questions quite nicely. We cannot submit any as evidence now for two reasons. First, I doubt any ECO or tribunal would entertain the existence of a deal which is still in the pipeline. Second and more importantly, confidentiality clauses will not permit my husband to reveal his clients before the closure of the deals.
If we can't, then I suppose we simply will have to re-apply with all the fresh documents.

I apologise for rambling. It has just been a few hours, and the shock hasn't worn off yet. I realise I have been answering most of my questions, but an educated echo is a most welcome thing at the moment. More so, if I'm mistaken about anything, I'd like to be corrected now and not suffer the ignominy and heartbreak of another refusal.

Thank you Batleykhan for the response. I appreciate it.

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:45 pm

I think before you do anything further it is best to take a short break and let the shock of the refusal wear off.I usually find people make more mistakes when in a state of confusion. You have 28 days to lodge appeal.

You are right in saying that you can both appeal and reapply at the same time if you wish.However this is counter productive. If you appeal. you have to pay fees for the hearing, and then employ a solicitor to represent you at the hearing ( Average cost of those can be between £500 -800 plus over a a hundred for court fees),

I am sure the cost of a new application is in the region of £800-900. If you do both, then you have to pay double.You must decide on one or the other ( in my opinion).

From experience I know in cases such as this under the old rules (pre 9/7) some 85% of appeals were successful after an appeal hearing ( not paper hearing but oral hearings). They are not that high under the new rules

However the decision to appeal will depend on what the refusal is for and what evidence can be provided to refute the misconceptions by the ECO when he refused application.

You asked whether it would be possible to produce your husbands present or future financial circumstances as part of evidence to prove he meets the criteria s, I would say unfortunately not, as the Court or ECM will look at the circumstances at the time the looked at application and on which they based his decision.

Under a new application you can produce whatever documents you want to prove the points on which you were refused.

If I was in your shoes that is what I would do. You take as much time as you want to get all documents together to make sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

The decision is yours to make. By the way I am sure had you had the opportunity to represent yourself at the appeal hearing before the Adjudicator, you will win hands down s you have made very good and valid points........pity the solicitor you employed couldn't have done it as good as you. Good luck :wink:

su411
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Post by su411 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:12 pm

Thank you BatleyKhan. My husband and I just had a long conversation about this. When we realised we were both too emotional about the matter, we decided to put it away for the night and sleep on it. Hopefully, the day will bring wiser counsel with it. We have decided to proceed as though we were appealing the decision, and so collecting all the information to submit for the appeal. Whether we do actually proceed with the appeal remains to be seen. It will depend on whether we feel we have a strong enough case. If not, then it's been a minor effort, and we can proceed with re-applying.

What makes sense to me is your point of not being able to present fresh evidence at an appeal. This is the one fact that has me leaning towards a fresh application.

In the interim, my husband will probably drum up every favour any lawyer ever owed him and glean every bit of information he can. He's also looking to retain a new solicitors firm. I, too, will be speaking with a reputed visa agency. They come highly recommended by family friends.

I will continue to pick your brains at every point. Thank you for all the help. And that compliment at the end did quite a bit to pick up my sagging spirits. So thank you again!

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:38 pm

Sleep over ir for a few days and then decide.If you want further help or a chat come to this page, as we don't allow people to use this forum as a chat room.

That is why I started this, so if anybody wanst to chit char they can do it on FB instead of IB

https://www.facebook.com/Immigrationboa ... tan?ref=hl

drwho
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Post by drwho » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:25 am

su411 wrote:My application status changed this evening...

I applied at the New Delhi VFS on 4/11/12 and the application was 'under process' at the BHC on the same day. Today is exactly 3 months since I filed, and my status says 'Processed application delivered to Blue Dart on 04/01/2013.

My husband and I have our fingers (and toes!) tightly crossed, and my parents have a bottle of champagne on ice already in anticipation of getting rid of me.

Wish me luck please.
Very sad to hear about your visa refusal.Hope you get it sorted soon.Are you sure that you filed your application on the 4th of November. Im a bit confused as in the same post you said that it was 3 months on January 4th.


I have applied at vfs Delhi in mid October and havent heard anything yet.

srik_1983
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Post by srik_1983 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:35 am

Depressing to hear that they rejected the visa.

I think the main reason for refusal was financial requirements and they have some genuine questions that need to answered.

Are you telling me that they could not have checked from their systems that your husband was in India in the periods you specified? The rejection on grounds of lack of evidence for genuine relationship is absurd. Also, does the UKBA guidance say that you must submit full passport copy of your sponsor? I doubt it!

Could you not apply for a visit visa to the UK? in that case you can come here for 6 months and go back and apply for dependent visa? ...



drwho wrote:
su411 wrote:My application status changed this evening...

I applied at the New Delhi VFS on 4/11/12 and the application was 'under process' at the BHC on the same day. Today is exactly 3 months since I filed, and my status says 'Processed application delivered to Blue Dart on 04/01/2013.

My husband and I have our fingers (and toes!) tightly crossed, and my parents have a bottle of champagne on ice already in anticipation of getting rid of me.

Wish me luck please.
Very sad to hear about your visa refusal.Hope you get it sorted soon.Are you sure that you filed your application on the 4th of November. Im a bit confused as in the same post you said that it was 3 months on January 4th.


I have applied at vfs Delhi in mid October and havent heard anything yet.

drwho
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Post by drwho » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:51 am

Even if they want to check they cannot. The Uk does not have any exit control. So they don't track where you are going to. Even when a British national comes back to the UK there is no formal check of where you have been to.

Or are you saying that the British High Commission should contact Indian Immigration (who of course have the data) and ask about the OPs husbands trips to India.

Of course you can argue that the airlines have this information. But not everyone takes a direct flight.
Last edited by drwho on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

drwho
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Post by drwho » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:53 am

The chances of getting approval for a visit visa right after the settlement visa application has been rejected are remote.

srik_1983
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Post by srik_1983 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm

I was thinking about entry clearance at Heathrow when you enter the UK.

Oh, I was not aware of the visa visit thingy ...

All very uncertain!
drwho wrote:The chances of getting approval for a visit visa right after the settlement visa application has been rejected are remote.

drwho
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Post by drwho » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:29 pm

srik_1983 wrote:I was thinking about entry clearance at Heathrow when you enter the UK.

Oh, I was not aware of the visa visit thingy ...

All very uncertain!
drwho wrote:The chances of getting approval for a visit visa right after the settlement visa application has been rejected are remote.
The OP's husband is a British national who had come to India after taking an Indian visa. He wouldnt have had any entry clearance on returning back to the UK. A british national does not have to fill out any form while entering the UK. In fact since I have an e-passport, I just use the e- passport gates at gatwick and walk in. No conversations/ contact with uk immigration.

All they know is that I have just come back to the Uk. They wouldn't know where I've been!

srik_1983
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Post by srik_1983 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:08 pm

I get your point ..

my wife has applied on 30th Nov, will keep this forum updated on when we get our visa ...


drwho wrote:
srik_1983 wrote:I was thinking about entry clearance at Heathrow when you enter the UK.

Oh, I was not aware of the visa visit thingy ...

All very uncertain!
drwho wrote:The chances of getting approval for a visit visa right after the settlement visa application has been rejected are remote.
The OP's husband is a British national who had come to India after taking an Indian visa. He wouldnt have had any entry clearance on returning back to the UK. A british national does not have to fill out any form while entering the UK. In fact since I have an e-passport, I just use the e- passport gates at gatwick and walk in. No conversations/ contact with uk immigration.

All they know is that I have just come back to the Uk. They wouldn't know where I've been!

su411
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Post by su411 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:10 pm

My apologies! I applied on 4/10/12 and not 4/11/12

drwho wrote:
su411 wrote:My application status changed this evening...

I applied at the New Delhi VFS on 4/11/12 and the application was 'under process' at the BHC on the same day. Today is exactly 3 months since I filed, and my status says 'Processed application delivered to Blue Dart on 04/01/2013.

My husband and I have our fingers (and toes!) tightly crossed, and my parents have a bottle of champagne on ice already in anticipation of getting rid of me.

Wish me luck please.
Very sad to hear about your visa refusal.Hope you get it sorted soon.Are you sure that you filed your application on the 4th of November. Im a bit confused as in the same post you said that it was 3 months on January 4th.


I have applied at vfs Delhi in mid October and havent heard anything yet.

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