Settlement visa extension

If, at the end of the two year probationary period, the holder has spent more than 180 days outside of the country whilst on a UK Settlement Visa, is it a straightforward process to extend this visa?

Is one tied to where one must re-apply i.e. does one need to leave the country to re-apply or can one continue one's life in the UK?

How long would it be extended for and how long might the process take - same as first time round?

I am aware that after 4 years of marriage one may apply directly for Indefinite Leave to Remain. Reasons for this division of time and location are flexibility and family! Time not spent in the UK would be spent back in Morocco and for the greater part, if not always, we would be together.

I would appreciate any sound advice.

I am aware that after 4 years of marriage one may apply directly for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

Forget it! That provision gets removed in April 2007 when the new provision about needing to have passed the Citizenship Test before getting ILR gets introduced.

So applying abroad will merely get you another 2-year spouse visa .... never ILR. Accordingly the application for ILR must be made in the UK.

If, at the end of the two year probationary period, the holder has spent more than 180 days outside of the country whilst on a UK Settlement Visa, is it a straightforward process to extend this visa?

Where are you getting that 180 days from? I know of no such specific provision like that.

Where are you getting that 180 days from? I know of no such specific provision like that.

I was quoting the "maximum figure" given by a UK "visa specialist" to whom I sent an email. Important to know the facts if this is incorrect - obviously - although for the general purpose of this question, it was just a figure, whether 1 month or 6 months.

I am aware that after 4 years of marriage one may apply directly for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

I wasn't aware of the details of the Citizenship test however if we were to be interested in ILR I would, regardless of the law, wish to be very settled in the UK prior to application and for my wife to be very capable to meet the demands of the test.

180 days

I don't see any concrete evidence however I also see figures that suggest the authorities allow up to 90 days per annum outside the UK.

For example: http://www.workpermit.com/uk/naturalisation.htm (which is NOT talking about settlement/ILR but citizenship) quotes maximum times outside the UK (1/3/5 years) in line with this thinking (90/270/450 days maximum leave accordingly)

dougalzene, whilst there are specific time limits as regards a Naturalisation application there are not for ILR visa applications. It merely needs to be clear that the applicant is settled and living in the UK and not just using their spouse visa like some sort of glorified visitor visa.

Can I ask, why is this an issue? Does your wife intend to spend significant amounts of time outside the UK.

You live in the UK? Why do you not intend to apply for a spouse visa for your wife forthwith?

Why do you not intend to apply for a spouse visa for your wife forthwith?

Because our path is not clear. Because from what I understood of the laws (limited) there was no clear path to suit my/our needs. I wished to gather information to get a clearer picture, to gather some ideas, and so to make the best decision for our course of action, for our life together. Of course with this I am learning that the change in the laws at this time just changes the equation!

As best as I can put it:
I came to spend time in Morocco and love the place, I also fell in love and married.
I freelance in my work. Sometimes I work intensively, other times I have extended periods without work. This suits me as I do not wish to spend the year round in England. There is no fixed division of time - sometimes it's a month in the year, other times it is 11! To add a further element, my work is periodically on the continent (France & Spain).

In reality, I am as much wishing to be in Morocco as in England. But I am British, a citizen and resident, and when I am there I naturally wish for my wife will be with me and ideally would like her to be afforded the freedom to work.

In order to comply with the settlement visa, it would seem that we would need to be in the UK for at least 75% of the two years. Obviously that figure seems to be open to some debate, maybe it is a matter of discretion.

I opened the question about a settlement visa extension to explore the idea of what happens should my wife and I not have spent sufficient time in the UK during these two years. Does she prejudice her status/application by only spending six months in the UK during this time as a result of her British husband’s decisions/work? Before I was more aware of the Citizenship test, I was weighing up with the idea that we don't include her in working in the UK and she just comes in on an ongoing visitor visa - ultimately we would have lost income but gained flexibility and after four years could have sought ILR. But John as you tell me, this is no longer.

I realise that little to do with immigration is simple. I certainly add complication to the process by the way I live. I realise that somewhere and somehow compromises may and probably will have to be made. The very reason I entered these forums was to clarify some facts and to open myself to all possibilities and solutions before committing to a certain path.

I sincerely invite you to offer a solution! Thank you.

Quite frankly, the consequences of this Test - I agree with the principal of the test wholeheartedly - are a right pain and just seems to have made things even more complicated - for me certainly.

Without a substantial change to the pattern of my life, there now seems no way for her to ultimately obtain ILR (or entry). I had seriously considered that she be a 'visitor' for four years - she could stay with me without working and we'd always be leaving the country within a six month period. Now, however, without the opportunity to apply for Indefinite leave to Remain/Enter after four years of marriage as a non-settler, she would endlessly be a visitor OR a repeat failure on the probation period of a settlement visa.

I fully understand the needs for immigration and for controls to identify and prevent fake marriages or fake settlement, but how heavily does that penalise someone like me who has a genuine marriage but with a division of time and location that fails the rules. Settlement should be tested on where you are principally resident, where you pay your taxes - how dare they penalise people for being "multi-locational".

With the help of forum members, and other information, I have learned much about the short-medium term, and the way this is changing with the Citizenship Test. What I don't specifically know, is the medium to long term effects of not meeting the requirements of the probationary settlement visa.

John - you appear adamant that this 4 year rule is (will be) gone. Is that a fact or is it an assumption based on the fact one cannot take the test abroad? What happens if my wife is a visitor for four or five years, becomes fluent in English, knows more than me about my own country? Could she not, after four or more years of marriage, take the test whilst in the UK on a Visitor visa? Could she not do that and apply to remain?

The 'four year rule' that you are talking about currently applies to people who have been married and living outside of the UK for a minimum of four years. When they apply to come to the uk as a spouse instead of a spouse visa they are given ILE - Indefinate Leave to Enter. A person who had been in and out of the UK would not have qualified for this, as you have to have spent the entire 4 years living outside of the country.

It is also not a good idea to apply for a visitor visa for a spouse, they are rarely granted to a spouse as other immigration rules apply. If people do apply they are almost always turned down on the 'returnability' factor. In theory your wife could take the test whilst in the UK on a visitor visa (if she is able to obtain one) but she would not be able to apply for anything in the UK while on a visitor visa. Are you suggesting she return to her home country and apply for ILE abroad with her pass certificate from the Life in the UK test? I don't think that could happen in practice. Firstly you would not have spent the entire 4 years outside of the UK (the visitor visas and test certificate would prove this), and the new rules do seem to make it clear that they will only grant a spouse visa if applying abroad (no mention that the only reason is the need for the test certificate either). The new rules about the requirements for ILR from April 2007 and taking the Life in the UK test can be found here:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... eqanda.doc

Point 45. deals with the issue of ILE:

45. Will people still be able to be granted settlement on entry? Spouses and partners of persons who are already settled here are currently eligible to apply for settlement on entry to the UK in certain circumstances. This will no longer be possible, and they will be granted a period of leave as a spouse or partner and will have to take the test in order to obtain settlement.

Why can your wife not apply for a spouse visa, travel back and forth with you and just make sure she is in the UK when it comes to applying for ILR? As long as she has taken and passed the Life in the UK test at some point what is to stop her gaining ILR? As John has said, there is nothing in the rules to say you can't have spent time outside of the UK, just as long as you were living together in a relationship akin to marriage and you have correspondence sent to the same address to prove that. Or, if you think she will need more time, apply for FLR (further leave to remain) at the end of the two year spouse visa (no need for a pass of the test) which will grant her a further two years. In theory you could do this indefinitely, which would be a pain, and expensive in terms of application fees but might suit your purpose. She will also be able to work in the UK on spouse and FLR visas, unlike the visitor visa.

Immigration rules are a pain as they are not written for your convenience but to try to regulate immigration.

I am trying to consider the future along with present.

Over this past year I have mostly been in Morocco whilst going through the protracted process of authorising marriage (yes I will write about that sometime for the benefit of others when I have time!). I go back to the UK to work, visit and renew the three month visitor visa for Morocco. This past year I have been here for about ten months. Prior to this year I have been in the UK most of the time. Our focus has been on marriage. The future, as far as location goes, has been very undecided - we both want to spend much time here in Morocco however, unless I start a business here, I will need to continue freelancing in the UK. Employment in Morocco, particularly for an outsider, is extremely limited.

For now and the purposes of this "exploration" I should say that we are based here - in that we rent and share an apartment. My most immediate needs are to know how she can travel with me to the UK 1) first off to meet my family and friends! 2) travel with me when I work in UK (whether she herself has a right to work or not). So now I learn from you Marie B that she is not really going to be doing that with a visitor visa. Does that only leave the spouse visa? But what if I want my spouse to visit and not settle? Okay I apply for the spouse visa - which seems to be one and the same as a settlement visa - what if you just want a spouse to travel with you? What if I become resident in Morocco and wish to travel with my wife to the UK for visits and/or my work?

My ongoing concerns, or concerns for the future, are how to approach this, how to make correct decisions now so that we do not suffer in the long-term. I see French nationals here who take their wives back to France (probably following a similar system to the UK Settlement Visa) and they themselves spend lots of time in Morocco whilst leaving their spouses behind!

I must sound so naive wishing for basics such as the right for her to be with me when I travel to my home country without hassle. I suppose, however, most of us are until we delve into the depths and realities of immigration law!

Sacrifice is part of life - it is quickly becoming clear as if one must make an absolute commitment to be wholly based in the UK for a period of three years or so until one can acquire citizenship and be done with any visa/ILR. There does not seem to be an allowance for anything but. The alternative seems to be a perpetual renewal of this spouse visa, if that is allowed!

It certainly is allowed! And indeed is the best that can be hoped for as from April 2007 if the Citizenship Test has not been passed.

As regards your question whether abolition of the ILE possibility is certain, as already pointed out, yes it is a certainty.

Sooner or later you might reach the conclusion that you and your wife will live in the UK for a bit over 3 years, while she gets her ILR and then British Citizenship. After that is obtained, well total flexibility will apply, at least as regards entering the UK. But question, does Morocco allow dual nationality? Certainly the UK has no problem with dual nationality.

John, I understand that Morocco allows their nationals to acquire multiple citizenship.

So, whichever way, she will need to apply for the spouse visa.

It seems a little bizarre to me that they do not separate the spouse visa from a spouse+settlement visa. Even if one only wishes to visit with one's spouse, one must prove sufficient funds/salary are available to support him/her!

If logic and foresight prevail then it would be best that we go and settle in the UK for the 3+ years, absolute. That will be a tough one!

I am happy to thank everyone - Marie B and particularly John - for your contributions. I am not so happy about the impact of marrying a non-EU national on my liberties. I suppose if I chose to continue to spend time outside of the country (without my wife) they would then say it cannot be a real marriage!

I am not so happy about the impact of marrying a non-EU national on my liberties.

You are still at liberty to live anywhere ... but if you want a particular outcome, such as ILR and Naturalisation for your wife .... then sorry, you need to abide by the rules appertaining to such applications.

For example, now that your wife is married to an EEA Citizen ... you! ... you could go and live and work in any other EEA country and get your wife an EEA Family Permit to live there with you. So nothing to stop you and your wife moving to Iceland, if you like it cold, or Greece, if you like it hot ... but don't expect UK ILR or Citizenship for your wife if you exercise EU/EEA Treaty Rights in that way. (Of course Iceland and Greece just given as examples .... lots more possibilities, for example Spain, just across the water from Morocco.)

John wrote: For example, now that your wife is married to an EEA Citizen ... you! ... you could go and live and work in any other EEA country and get your wife an EEA Family Permit to live there with you. So nothing to stop you and your wife moving to Iceland, if you like it cold, or Greece, if you like it hot ... but don't expect UK ILR or Citizenship for your wife if you exercise EU/EEA Treaty Rights in that way.

And EU/EEA Treaty Rights do not extend to citizenship of the host country either. Some countries do allow people on EU/EEA status to acquire local citizenship, others make it difficult or impossible. Same goes for children born locally.

John, no plans to do Europe although a visit would be nice - I would like to show her some stuff. A Schengen visa required I believe.

Naturalisation route noted, let me ask you this - if I were not willing to do the 3yr+ - if I make a decision that I wished to be based in Morocco, start a business here - if I just wanted my wife to be able to travel with me some or most times when I visit family and friends in the UK - to see if she even liked the UK - what route would you recommend?

Do I take it that the VAF1 non-settlement form is not an option with a spouse, on an ongoing basis. Rules aside, I would have been happy to have taken a multiple entry visitor visa (Marie B ruled this out). I take it the EEA family permit applies only to other countries not your own?

I think that if it is clear that you are based in Morocco and you will merely be visiting the UK for a temporary period, and you want your wife to accompany you, I certainly think that a Visitor Visa is the way to go, and form VAF1 would be used to apply for that.

That is, your wife needs to show a "reason to return" to Morocco at the end of her visit. The fact that you are based in Morocco and you will be returning there sounds like good evidence that she will also leave the UK.

I think, in the first instance, apply for a standard 6-month-max VV. But after that, assuming that the terms of that were totally complied with, why not apply for a longer-term VV?

Do appreciate that VVs will never lead to ILR in the UK.

Spain, or any other Schengen country? Yes your wife will need a Schengen visa. I just hope, for your sake, that the Spanish Embassy in Morocco are more polite than "the pigs" that inhabit the Spanish Embassy in London and deal with Schengen Visa application there.

I just hope, for your sake, that the Spanish Embassy in Morocco are more polite than "the pigs" that inhabit the Spanish Embassy in London and deal with Schengen Visa application there.

It sounds like you have first hand experience. It wouldn't surprise me if they're also pigs at the embassy here, although pork is a bit of a no-no you know - I suppose the embassy is spanish soil. I don't think the two countries get on very well. What I love is how much of a fuss Spain make about Gibraltar but they have two Gibraltars (Ceuta & Melilla) on the north coast of Morocco and they're in no hurry to cede them to Morocco!

There are clearly decisions with medium term commitment that need to be made, and they need to be made with careful evaluation of implication/benefit/consequence. As for now I just want my wife to come and see England, my family and my friends, I think we may do just that - get a six month visitor visa and enjoy it.

If I goes for a Schengen visa, I may try the French embassy since they have close ties with Morocco and don't [any longer] trespass on their territory. Besides I have family and friends there and it would probably be our main destination, which seems to be the requirement.

The Spanish Embassy in London? No we never applied to there, simply because we have heard so many stories about their total arrogance and rude manner. So on the two occasions when my wife needed a Schengen visa the applications were made to the French Consulate in London .... absolutely no problem ... a courteous and speedy service.

So yes, apply to the French Embassy/Consulate ... use that French-issued Schengen visa first to enter France, and then after that, you can use it for further trips, including to Spain! We actually used a French-issued Schengen visa, yes first to enter France, but later to take a package tour holiday to Lanzarote ... part of Spain.