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Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

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NaeemAbbas
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Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm

Hi there,

I was refused my human rights claim on the basis of financial requirements not met. The rest of all requirements were fulfilled.

The payslips that we submitted were calculated as a total of 18,429£ for the 12 months. So we missed the amount of 171£ from the minimum threshold. The mistake we made in the initial application is that we miscalculated the payslips from august 2018 to august 2019 which were 13 months not 12. And this was a minor blunder we made and we were in a sense that we did meet the requirement. However considering the most recent payslips of last 12 months from the date of appeal which was 14 nov 2019. The total amount was 19500£.

Here are the outlines of appeal:

1. Respondent and appeallant received initial tribunal letter on 5th dec 2019.

2. Letter stated that ECO will reconsider the case and this process can take upto 15 weeks to send the bundle back to court.

3. Court is still waiting for the ECO for the bundle until 5th of march.

4. We acknowledged in the appeal that we made a mathematical error and respect the ECO decision and if we waited for one more month and submit the most recent payslips, we would have met the minimum requirement.

Now my question:

1. What are the chances of getting this appeal successful?

2. Will the home office consider the most recent payslips or the only payslips which were submitted at the time of application, where we have a 171£ deficit in the minimum requirement.

3. How long do you think such a case can take?

If a brief and to the point answer can be given, I would really appreciate that.

My wife is a PCSO in metropolitan police london from the last 3 months and have received the salary of 2600£ before tax each month in the last three months. Which is an yearly around 26500£.

We also submitted the contract for this job in our appeal.

Thanks alot

Naeem

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Jaune08
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by Jaune08 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:35 pm

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm
1. What are the chances of getting this appeal successful?
I am not an immigration lawyer nor expert, but from my experience of lodging my own appeal, I don't think your appeal may be successful. The ECO will be evaluating new payslips and taxes according to a new period you decided to establish:
considering the most recent payslips of last 12 months from the date of appeal which was 14 nov 2019.
It will make sense to appeal and hand over, perhaps missing documents, from the same period (08/18-08/19), but not arbitrary select another period (14/11/19) to meet the requirement. I don't think the ECO will run in your favour.

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm
2. Will the home office consider the most recent payslips or the only payslips which were submitted at the time of application, where we have a 171£ deficit in the minimum requirement.
I think only the payslips that formed part of your application, because recent payslips belong to another financial period.

It's not the same to consider 08/18 to 08/19 payslips meeting the 18,600 threshold and submit missing payslips to appeal, that having 08/18 to 08/19 WITHOUT meeting 18,600 and wanting the ECO to consider other period (which is your case)

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm
3. How long do you think such a case can take?
A non straight forward appeal can take from months up to a year.

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm
My wife is a PCSO in metropolitan police london from the last 3 months and have received the salary of 2600£ before tax each month in the last three months. Which is an yearly around 26500£.

We also submitted the contract for this job in our appeal.
I suggest you to take all this evidence and making a new fresh application instead.

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:37 am

Thank you for your reply. What is the difference between a fresh application and an appeal. Wont the home office consider the same documents we submitted in appeal. Its like just give them money again and they will consider your most recent payslips, otherwise in the appeal they will not.

Wouldn’t it complicate the whole process. As its just the financial requirements that we need to meet. All other aspects are fulfilled. If they consider the most recent payslips at reapplication, why wont the judge in the hearing or the ECO consider them in the appeal?

Is it just a matter of money or something? Would you please elaborate. Waiting is not a problem for me as I am sure its a straight forward case.

iwolga
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by iwolga » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:47 am

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:37 am
Thank you for your reply. What is the difference between a fresh application and an appeal. Wont the home office consider the same documents we submitted in appeal. Its like just give them money again and they will consider your most recent payslips, otherwise in the appeal they will not.

Wouldn’t it complicate the whole process. As its just the financial requirements that we need to meet. All other aspects are fulfilled. If they consider the most recent payslips at reapplication, why wont the judge in the hearing or the ECO consider them in the appeal?

Is it just a matter of money or something? Would you please elaborate. Waiting is not a problem for me as I am sure its a straight forward case.
It usually makes sense to appeal if you believe that HO made a mistake. This is why you ask a third party (court) to review evidence you gave to HO with your application. The court will say what they think the decision shall be.

Now you think you made a mistake, so what will be the reaction of court?

The difference of new application is that you start fresh with new financial requirements’ proof. So you will be above the threshold.

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:23 am

I understand, the difference between appeal and new application is all about taking money. You pay more money only then we will look at other evidence, otherwise we will not consider anything else in the same money.


I understood perfectly!

Thanks for your reply though

THO
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by THO » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:43 am

Did your refusal letter from the HO give you a right to appeal? If it did you have nothing to loose, but some time (seems to be around 10 to 12 weeks average) and the appeal fee. Oh and I would suggest using a lawyer, probably another £800. If your appeal is turned down, then nothing stopping you making a fresh application.

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:47 pm

Yes i was given right of appeal in the refusal letter. And the recent email received by tribunal says that they have given time to ECO until 2nd April 2020 to reconsider the original decision.

Also I have mentioned the clause in my appeal that if they do not consider the most recent payslips which does fulfill the minimum income threshold. Then they can give me exemptions based on the appendix fm partner clause EX: which says that if the relationships is genuine then certain exemptions can be given provided that the applicant might go through some insurmountable obstacles or serious hardships if the visa is not granted. I have highlighted few insurmountable obstacles that my partner is living in a one bedroom flat which is basically an accommodation for 2 people and paying 850£ rent per month apart from bills and she is not relying on any kind of public funds. It will be difficult for her to rearrange all the expenses again if we reapply by submitting most recent payslips.

What do u think about this exemption clause? Is there a chance of it being successfull?

THO
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by THO » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:44 am

Personally, I think that the word "insurmountable" means that, they will not consider those things you have mentioned, since they are not insurmountable, just a hard problem to deal with. However, if you have now met the financial criteria they refused you on, by providing the right pay slips, then I would expect the appeal will be successful. But I am no expert, so my advice is from my experience and nothing more, I could well be wrong.

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:40 am

Thank you for your reply. Hopefully they will consider most recent payslips because they does meet the minimum threshold of 18,600£.

NaeemAbbas
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Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:41 am

Hi,

The only requirement to be fulfilled was financial threshold. When we submitted appeal in nov 2014 we submitted most recent payslips which exceeded the minimum threahold of 18600£. Now home office deadline is ended which was 2nd april 2020 and they haven’t sent the bundle to tribunal. The tribunal said they are listing the appeal now and will send reminders shortly to all parties concerned. They also asked me to write expedite request if I have any compessionate or compelling reasons for the appeal to be dealt on urgent basis. Just wanted to know what could be the compassionate points in my case and how long does court take normally to give the appeal date: just to let u know, they are currently conducting skype hearings. Here is our situation:

My wife is a PCSO for Metropolitan Police London.

She is living in 1 bedroom flat from last 7 months paying 850£ rent plus council taxes and bills because that is accommodation for 2 people and she rented it for my visa.

The most recent payslips of last 12 months are calculated as of 24,600£ in total gross income.

She is alone in the flat and in this pandemic situation if any emergency arrives, nobody is there to look after her.

We have been waiting for 4 months for home office to respond to our appeal but they didnt bother.

In this covid-19 situation, I need to be with my wife to support her in any cases of emergencies.

What could be any other compelling or compessionate reasons we can write to court so first tier tribunal court/judge consider our appeal on urgent basis?

Thank you

Naeem

THO
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by THO » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:50 am

Where are you? Would you even be able to travel if you get a vignette now?

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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by Fififadi » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:54 am

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:41 am
Hi,

The only requirement to be fulfilled was financial threshold. When we submitted appeal in nov 2014 we submitted most recent payslips which exceeded the minimum threahold of 18600£. Now home office deadline is ended which was 2nd april 2020 and they haven’t sent the bundle to tribunal. The tribunal said they are listing the appeal now and will send reminders shortly to all parties concerned. They also asked me to write expedite request if I have any compessionate or compelling reasons for the appeal to be dealt on urgent basis. Just wanted to know what could be the compassionate points in my case and how long does court take normally to give the appeal date: just to let u know, they are currently conducting skype hearings. Here is our situation:

My wife is a PCSO for Metropolitan Police London.

She is living in 1 bedroom flat from last 7 months paying 850£ rent plus council taxes and bills because that is accommodation for 2 people and she rented it for my visa.

The most recent payslips of last 12 months are calculated as of 24,600£ in total gross income.

She is alone in the flat and in this pandemic situation if any emergency arrives, nobody is there to look after her.

We have been waiting for 4 months for home office to respond to our appeal but they didnt bother.

In this covid-19 situation, I need to be with my wife to support her in any cases of emergencies.

What could be any other compelling or compessionate reasons we can write to court so first tier tribunal court/judge consider our appeal on urgent basis?

Thank you

Naeem
Hi NaeemAbbas,

Hope you're well.

Did you manage to think of any specific compelling or compassionate grounds?

We have very similar appeal timelines. The 15 weeks for my husband were up on 1st April. We were told that no bundle had been provided by HO either, and so will be listed for hearing (or similar). I wonder if we will be granted a skype/telephone hearing anytime soon.

Please let me know if you hear anything.

Wishing you well.

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:55 pm

I have written to the tribunal and now waiting for hewring date. Lets see what they respond.

Regarding compassionate and compelling reasons. It depends on individual circumstances. You can relate to the very difficulties the sponsor or the appeallant might be facing if the case is delayed any further. Also write an expedite request to the attention of first tribunal immigration jusge by mentioning those circumstances.

Once I receive a reply, I will post here.

Good luck for u also. I am waiting also for my visa

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Fri May 22, 2020 2:00 pm

Hi there,

The letter I received on 19th May 2020 from First Tier Tribunal judge that they cannot expedite my appeal request as based on the compessionate and compelling factors I mentioned, there are people who has the similar situations and are waiting for longer than my case. The judge also appreciates that I want to be with my wife as soon as possible and they have listed the appeal now and will be giving direct decisions on appeals without any hearing. Also they are not refusing any appeals which are straight forward and the 48 weeks time doesn’t apply to appeals submitted before the current pandemic.

The respondent home office did not send them a bundle after 2 reminders and they directly listed my appeal for a decision now and are not waiting for bundle anymore.

Home office bundle deadline was 2nd April 2020.

My wife has been working as Police Community Support Officer for last 7 months with an aberage monthly income of £2600 which does meet the financial requirement and also the documents submitted at the time of appeal did exceed the minimum threshold of £18,600.

Now my question is how soon should I expect the decision on my appeal now, our case was refused on basis of financial grounds.


Regards,

Naeem

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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by Fififadi » Sat May 23, 2020 1:23 am

Hi

Thanks for the update.

Have they given you a date for when they have listed the hearing even if it will be done on paper? I’m not sure how quickly they are making decisions. I’m sure you will be sent a date or something for when your case will be reviewed?

We received the HO bundle last week. It was due on 1st April. The review was done in February so they have taken 3 months to send it over!!!
I have been advised by my solicitor that out of country appeals are not currently being listed as they can’t be done through their online system or something?

I haven’t been sent anything yet :(

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Fri May 29, 2020 7:56 pm

Nothing yet,

My wife has called them few times and they advised that my appeal is listed and I am in the que now to be assigned a hearing date.

Thats all we have been advised and we were not advised to withdraw the appeal and reapply as currently HO is also discouraging new applications. What a load of shit, they gave me a refusal in 28 days because I paid them handsome money but they cannot review the appeal from the last 8 months because we didn’t pay them again.

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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by Fififadi » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:43 am

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 7:56 pm
Nothing yet,

My wife has called them few times and they advised that my appeal is listed and I am in the que now to be assigned a hearing date.

Thats all we have been advised and we were not advised to withdraw the appeal and reapply as currently HO is also discouraging new applications. What a load of shit, they gave me a refusal in 28 days because I paid them handsome money but they cannot review the appeal from the last 8 months because we didn’t pay them again.
We would have been sent a hearing date for July looking at the other timelines of those whose 15 week reviews were up before ours, but due to Covid-19 everything is delayed. I called the tribunal myself too and they said that everything is working very slowly and to expect long delays.

Yes - the biometric centres are closed currently and so can't really start a new application. They also aren't making decisions on any entry clearance visa's until the visa centres in the relevant countries have opened. VFS have opened some centres here in the UK for those whose biometrics were cancelled - not for new applicants but they remain fully closed in Pakistan.

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:30 am

I called the tribunal and they advised that they are no longer waiting for HO bundles and they are counting the appeal times from the date you submitted your appeal which is 11 months. They also advised that my appeal is waiting to be listed and I can expect a decision without hearing in couple of months but they cannot be sure about time lines. Lets see what happens as we can’t start fresh applications as well so its a got damn long wait again due to this frustrating system.

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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by Nabeel121 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:22 am

NaeemAbbas wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:30 am
I called the tribunal and they advised that they are no longer waiting for HO bundles and they are counting the appeal times from the date you submitted your appeal which is 11 months. They also advised that my appeal is waiting to be listed and I can expect a decision without hearing in couple of months but they cannot be sure about time lines. Lets see what happens as we can’t start fresh applications as well so its a got damn long wait again due to this frustrating system.

Hey when did you submit the appeal if you don’t mind me asking? And did you opt for an oral hearing or paper hearing?

NaeemAbbas
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Re: Spouse Visa Appeal- First Tier Tribunal

Post by NaeemAbbas » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:26 pm

I submitted my appeal on 14th nov 2019, its been 8 months and they will take 11 full months which is the standard appeal process timings. I submitted for oral hearing. In the meanwhile I am sending them different reasons for why my appeal should be expedited. I hope this time they will expedite it as there is a medical emergency my wife is going through and needs urgent surgery for that and she is alone there and nobody is there to look after her. Hopefully judge will consider that and expedite it.

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