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Wifes visa rejected due to ECO's mistakes

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sreeni
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Location: Preston, UK

Wifes visa rejected due to ECO's mistakes

Post by sreeni » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:01 am

I am British citizen and married my wife in 16/12/04, i first saw my wife in 2/06/04 of the same year and we decided to get married (aranged). I came back to india about 6 months after we saw each other and got married. My wife lived with me for the 6 weeks i was in india. I then had to return to the UK or else i would have no job to go back to.
I work for a large corporation thru an agency as a 1st/2nd/3rd line software support analyst as part of a helpdesk. I have a permanent position but it is still thru the agency. i earn about 300 a week 200 after tax. I am living in my uncles house which i live for free( but the UK VISA VFS officer asked if i dont own the house then i will have to show a rental agreement, so i asked my uncle to make a rental agreement and put some amount such as £50/week. I showed all bank staements for 1yr which showed i had saved upto £4000 starting from a balance of about 500 clearly showing my wages going in each week for the whole year. I showed 1 yrs worth of wage slips showing my wage starting at 5.67 per hour increasing to 7.56 per hour.I showed my passort stamps showing i had been to india in june when we first met and also in december when we got married.

YET my wifes visa got rejected. the ECO gave the following reasons
1)) ther is doubt in my job as my wife said im a software engineer and the ECO belives a software engineer would be earning more than the amount i am earning, therfore has doubts over my employment and this undemines the whole basis of my employent.

2) he does not belive that a 3 bedroom house would be rented out for only 50/per week and suspects that i rent a single room for 50/week

3) there is no evidence in my passport to show we met in june 2002 ....
of course this last point is correct as we never said anything about june 2002 we met in june 2004 which is clearly stated in our application :(


my wife was told by the translator that she should apply again but this time bring all the right papers, how can i bring the "right" papres when the ones i gave to my wife are the right ones????unless they mean to forge some "right "ones??? also she would hve to pay the fee again.

I advised mywife that we would appeal instead.

CAN THEY GET AWAY WITH THESE KIND OF MISTAKES AND REJECT AN APPLICATION JUST LIKE THAT

John
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Post by John » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:30 am

Sreeni, with respect, I think it is totally clear that your wife, the applicant, and you, as sponsor, failed to provide sufficient proof that the tests have been met, particularly as regards accommodation.

Accordingly I personally am not surprised by the rejection.

The accommodation needs to be "suitable" and certainly not overcrowded. Did you provide any evidence about that? OK, the house is a 3-bedroom one, but how many rooms in the house, not counting Spam bathroom or toilet, are over 50 square feet? How many people are living in the house, or rather will be living there after your wife moves in?

I think you should have a good read of Annex F. Go to :-

IND instructions - Annexes - A - Z + Aa

-: and then click on the Annex F link and download that PDF.

Your wife was advised to go away and come back with the right documents. Instead you want to appeal. Why? It will be far quicker and cheaper to do as requested ... an appeal is not where you should be heading at this moment in time. The embassy/consulate is treating the application as still open ... do as they have suggested! Provide the evidence they need!
John

sreeni
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Location: Preston, UK

Post by sreeni » Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:25 pm

Hi john thankyou for your reply.


The reason i have decided to appeal is that the translator advised that if we are rejected a second time then we will never be able to apply again, so i decided that we should appeal as then if it is still rejected then we can apply again. I dont mind paying the money as long as she gets here.

with the appeal form i have given my wife:
1)a letter from the council officer who did a survey of the house and said it was fit for 7.5 people to live in , currently it is lived in by only me and my uncle.( the house has 2 large bedrooms 1 small bedroom, 2 large living rooms, 1 dining room, 1 Spam, 1 bathroom. the 2 living rooms and 2 bedrooms are easily over 50 sqft.

2) a letter from my uncle who states that i live there rent free in one of the large bedrooms and that he is happy for my wife to live there as well with me.

3) another letter from my employer this time stating exactly that i am a permanent employee of the agency, that i work as a IT helpdesk advisor, that i earn 283.50 a week, at a payrate of 7.56 per hour.

4) my latest bank statement this now only shows about £1000 as i spent the rest when i went to get married in india. Also my last 4 weeks wage slips each of which clearly shows me earning over 283.50 as i did overtime.(my wife still has all the old bank and wage slips from the initial application)

the only thing i dont have is evidence of contact, all i have is the used international calling cards i have used to phone her with, but this is no good as evidence i think.

also by the way. I have asked my employer if i can get a transfer to the india based helpdesk, they are willing to transfer me there with a higher wage and other benefits on an initail 1yr contract. They are currently waiting to see if my wife gets the visa, if she doesnt get it then i can go to work in bangalore as a supervisor/2nd linesupport on the helpdesk there.
If i go to work there will it be an advantage or disadvantage when reapplying?

also how hard is it to get a work permit to work in india?I am a british citizen and also have a british passport. i currently have a 5yr (2yrs left) tourist visa as i often visit india for holidays. I also have land etc in my name in india.Also i used to posess an indian passport when i was a baby.


any help is greatly appreciated.
once again thankyou john.:)

John
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Post by John » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:05 pm

What a great shame all that good evidence was not supplied in the first place. If it had then your wife would probably be in the UK with you now.

As for :-
the translator advised that if we are rejected a second time then we will never be able to apply again
-: my polite comment is ... garbage!

Just submit the evidence you failed to supply in the first instance .... just get the case reviewed locally ... far quicker and cheaper. If on the review you still get turned down, well then appeal.
John

journey
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Post by journey » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:40 pm

Dear John

your valuable advice will definately help to sreen... to get her wife at earliest in the UK.

Sreen, it is very important to present all documentation very clearly and in detail to facilitate ECO to make his decision in you favour.

Pl read twice the guidance note provided in John's post, if necessary take solicitor advice and guidance to put everything in order.

rest all the v best..

sreeni
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 am
Location: Preston, UK

Post by sreeni » Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:51 am

hi john, thanks again, my wife is currently on the bus travelling to the madras BHC, and i feel much more confident that this time they will approve the appeal.

This is the first itme i have used this website and i only came across it by chance. i wasnt actually looking for visa related stuff at the time i found it but it is a very helpful site. I had a look around on the other messages and i see that they are looking for moderators i will recommend you john as you have been very helpful

thankyou very much :)

journey
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Post by journey » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:09 am

Sreeni,

I am curious to know thant when did ur wife filed application to Chennai embassy? when did she get interview date? when did she interviewd? and when was refusal given?

Because as per UK govt website waiting time in Chennai for settlement visa is 0 week, but your post it is written that you got married in Dec 04 but nothing about when visa was applied, when your wife was interviewed and when decision granted on her application?

All the very best .....

John
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Post by John » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:23 am

Sreeni, I fear we may have a conflict in terminology here. You keep referring to an appeal but from what you say I suspect that the BHC have merely said ... come along again with all the evidence we need and we shall look at the matter again.

So now your wife is on the bus ... I look forward to you posting the good news later!
John

sreeni
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Location: Preston, UK

Post by sreeni » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:20 pm

hi john the reason im calling it an appeal is because it was an appeal form that was given to us along with the rejection letter.

My wife is now back at home but she tells a very worrying story.She says she was not allowed into the embassy , they will only let you go in if you have an interview. But luckily a female worker was passing and asked her what was wrong and she said she wanted to make an appeal, the girl said that they only need the form not the other documents. Later another woman from inside approached her and said they need the other documents as well as the form.She took all the the documents inside and asked my wife to wait outside for a few minutes. About 5 mins later she returned and said ok now they may leave.

I was a bit suprised at this story:O i asked my wife if she had any reciept or anything given to her she said no they didnt give me anything.

Is this right? is this what is supposed to happen?

John
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Location: Birmingham, England

Post by John » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:26 am

Sreeni, in these days of security risk you can understand why an embassy/consulate/BHC feels the need to take precautions about who they let in. Shame your wife did not have an appointment but I would not worry about the lack of receipt for the documents.

Hopefully she will get a call from the BHC soon, inviting her back - by appointment.

OK, the BHC may be using the word "appeal" but it still sounds to me like an internal review there. Hopefully you will not need to get as far as a real formal appeal hearing. That can take months.
John

journey
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Post by journey » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:46 am

Sreen,

Everything should be okay, you have done your part now we need to leave things on third power also.

Hope for the best....

Could you be kind pl reply on my curiousity ques?

sreeni
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Location: Preston, UK

Post by sreeni » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:30 pm

originally we enquired in the UK VISA (VFS) hyderabad office in Andhra Pradesh, they said that they send the papers to chennai as there is no BHC in Andhra. we went to theBHC in chennai where they said they no longer do visa's only interviews, to hand in the visa application we would have to go to the VFS office nearby, which we did ,
a lady in VFS looked at the form and said i need to show a rental agreement form and also need to show last 6 months bank statements i only had 5 as i couldnt find 1 of them.
I said i dont have a rental agreement she advised to get one somehow or i can still put in the application but it would have problems . she advised that i get my uncle to fax over a rental agreement with some amount and also my bank statement and hand it in the next day then the application would be processed smoothly, we may not even have an interview and the passport will be collected with the visa after 4 days, if an interview is needed we would be told after 2 days. so i took the application back and said i would come back tomorrow
so after geting the papers faxed the next day it was a different lady who now refused to take the application as we were from andhra pradesh not Tamil Nadu, I tried to reasonwith her , she asked her superieor but same answer... we have to apply in hyderabad,
I said the lady yesterday was willing to take the application and said it would take about 4 days, how long will it take if we apply at hyderabad as i am going back to uk on 17th, she replied the application takes 15days to process wether it is madras or hyderabad.

SO back we go to Hyd and gave the application on the10/01, about 2 weeks later she was later called for interview on the 4th feb.

sreeni
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Location: Preston, UK

Post by sreeni » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:27 am

my wife recieved a letter today ,confirming that they have recieved the appeal form and that they are returning the original papers back.

journey
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Post by journey » Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:59 pm

Hope evrything will be okay....

Wish u all the best.....

azharali
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APPEAL

Post by azharali » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:54 am

I am sorry but people are thoroughly confused here. The Bitish High Commission is just following what is standard procedure for them. I regret to inform you that you have now lodged an appeal, which will be heard in the UK. The chances are that the appeal will come before an Adjudicator in about 8 t0 10 months time. Then assuming you will the appeal, it may take another 3 to 4 months before your wife gets a visa to come to the UK. The reasons given for this are simply that they are incredibly busy. The truth is peoples lives are made miserable by these petty decisons which are often conceded as being wrong at the last minute. I have been working in this field since 195 full time and I think you should know the reality of what you face currently. Sadly it is not good news and now there is little ppint in you submitting a fresh application as they will most likely refuse that as well.
Sadly you should be prepared to wait upto 18 months before you can expect her to be able to come here.

The so called entry clearance officers posted to places like india pakistan sri lanka bangladesh etc have ONLY one job description, which is to find ways in which to refuse as many applications as possible. They have charged you hundreds of pounds to make the application, then they refuse it and you spend more on lawyers fighting their decision. Long delays and petty excuses is all you will get.

It is crucial for anyone else therefore in this situation, to get it right the first time otherwise you will be sorry, very sorry like our friend here

regards

sreeni
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Location: Preston, UK

Post by sreeni » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:16 pm

has anybody else had a similar problem such as this ? and what sort of timescales was the problem finally sorted out? 18months seems a bit drastic :(, is there no way to hurry it up? or apply again?

John
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Post by John » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:28 pm

azharali, many members of this board have been there, been extremely anxious about whether a spouse would be granted a settlement visa at some overseas embassy/consulate/BHC. I certainly have but my wife successfully got her spouse visa in Bangkok back in 2001.

You give the impression that the ECOs are there simply to refuse applications or at least make life difficult for applicants and their families. Fortunately the statistics prove that to be wrong. The great majority of settlement visa applications are actually granted.

If you want to check that go to :-

Entry Clearance - Facts and Figures (25/11/04)

-: and then click on "Entry Clearance Statistics 2003-4" to download a 90-page PDF file.

Having done that, for South Asia, go and look at page 17 of 90 and you will see the detailed statistics.

The fact is that if the supporting evidence proves that all the tests have been passed then the visa will be granted. There is no quota system.

Unfortunately for sreeni his wife's supporting documentation did not prove all the tests had been passed, hence the current problem.

The comment must be .... spend time gathering together all the evidence that is needed ... it will be a good "investment in time".
John

journey
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Post by journey » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:13 pm

I disagree with azharali's comments, I know numerous pepole who came to UK from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh on marriage basis and surprisingly no one faced ever any sort of problems.

Even some of them have no educational backround, no sense of presentation etc, but still they are in UK and will be British citizens in due course.

Sreeni is just victim of bad luck and has not prepared enough documentation in 1st place.

Don't you worry sreeni everything will be okay once you will have all relevant documentation in order. If ECO or any one hassle you then best way to adopt EU route to bring your wife in UK.

Rules in UK are very harass for UK citizen and very lenient for EU citizens, once it was admitted by Jack Straw also.

Believe in Destiny

azharali
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sorry

Post by azharali » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:07 pm

A Simple question for you all how many of you actually practice law in the UK, secondly how many of you have practiced for 20 years and finally how`many of you have practiced only in immigration

not many i expect. I do not mean to be arrogant or patronizing. The ONLY reason I felt it important to join this forum was to challenge the crap that is being written here by tghose who guess or presume that British Justice could not possibly do this. IT DOES if you dont believe me look into the history of British Immigration rules such as the Virginity Test used by a LABOUR Home Secretary, (Jenkins in the 70s) the primary purpose rule used by the Tories in the Thatcher era, learn your facts before you start defending your GREAT BRITAIN because it certainly is not great. Its immigration laws are dearly beloved sexist and biased. Ask your self a simple questiuon if his wife was an american applying from NEW YORK, would she have to undergo the same crap. I KNOW that is not so, why?

Finally if you do not believe me as to how long ANY immigration appeal from abroad can take, go to the COURT SERVICE website and you will see for yourself. http://www.britishhighcommission.gov.uk ... 1827629145

here is the relevant extrct>>>>>>>>>.

Refusals and Appeals


What if I am refused a visa?
93% of our applicants worldwide receive the visa that they have applied for. If you are refused a visa, the entry clearance officer will give you a written notice explaining why. To ensure that we have made a fair decision, in accordance with the UK Immigration Rules, an entry clearance manager reviews every refusal within 24 hours. In some cases, you will have the right of appeal against the decision.

If you have been refused a visa, you may apply again at any time, but if the circumstances leading to your refusal have not changed, you may be refused again.

Can I appeal against my refusal?
You can appeal against refusal of some types of entry clearance applications, for example:
Family visit – to visit close family members in the UK.
Spouse, fiancé(e) or unmarried partner – to settle in the UK
Student – to study for more than 6 months in the UK.
Work Permit holder – to work full-time in the UK
There are also other types of entry clearance applications which, if you are seeking to spend 6 months or more in the UK, you may have the right of appeal if you are refused. If you are entitled to appeal, this will be explained in your written notice of refusal. Further information is available at: Immigration and Nationality Directorate

How do I make my appeal?
If you have the right of appeal the Entry Clearance Officer will give you three forms:
your written notice of refusal (setting out why your application for a visa has been refused);
your notice of appeal (the form which you must complete and return to the Entry Clearance Officer explaining why you think he or she was wrong to refuse your application); and
a leaflet explaining the appeals process.
Is there a time limit?
Yes. You must complete and return the notice of appeal to the entry clearance officer within 28 calendar days of receipt of the notice. If the notice is posted to you, this time limit starts from the date you receive the notice.

How much does it cost?
There is no charge for an appeal against refusal of visa.

What happens when I make my appeal?
When the Entry Clearance Officer receives your appeal he or she will review the application again, taking account of any further comments you have made in the Grounds of Appeal and of any fresh evidence. The original decision may be reversed at this stage, and an entry clearance issued.

If the Entry Clearance Officer does not alter the decision, and you choose to exercise your right of appeal, he or she will write an Explanatory Statement, which will explain in greater detail his or her reasons for refusing the visa. This will be sent with all your papers to the Home Office for onward transmission to the Immigration Appellate Authority and to your representative.

What does the Immigration Appellate Authority do?
The Immigration Appellate Authority (IAA) was set up by Parliament to resolve immigration appeal cases. The IAA will arrange for your representative in the UK to receive copies of all the relevant papers, including the Entry Clearance Officer’s Explanatory Statement. The IAA will then arrange for your case to be heard.

Who will decide the outcome of my appeal?
An independent adjudicator will hear your appeal in the UK. When considering an appeal, the Adjudicator will take full account of all the evidence presented by you and/or by your representative, as well as by the Home Office. He or she will then make a judgement based upon the Immigration Rules and on the individual merits of your appeal.

How long will my appeal take?
Family visit appeal –The IAA’s aim is to process Family Visit appeals as quickly as possible. Paper hearings, generally, are dealt with more quickly than oral hearings, but neither should take more than a few weeks, after the papers have been received by the Immigration Appellate Authority. Unfortunately, it is not possible to give guarantees on how long an appeal will take and this information is given for guidance only.
Other appeals – It is not possible to give times for other appeals. It is likely that the appeal will not be listed for a hearing for some considerable time, possibly up to one year.

How do I contact the Immigration Appellate Authority?
If you or your representative wish to enquire about the progress of your appeal, or to obtain more information about the appeals system, you can contact the IAA at following address. Please give the name of the Post where the application was made and the Post reference number when making an enquiry: Immigration Appellate Authority
Customer Service Centre
Crown House
Southfield Road
Loughborough LE11 2TW
Tel: (+44) (0) 845 6000877
Fax: (+44) (0) 509 221444


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sreeni
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Post by sreeni » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:17 am

can we apply again while waiting?

John
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Post by John » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:38 am

azharali posted :-
Its immigration laws are dearly beloved sexist and biased.
-: and also mentions things that are entirely historical that bear no resemblance to the present day.

Clearly you are unable to read statistics that clearly show that the majority of settlement visa applications are granted. But you persist in wanting to frighten people into thinking that they have little chance of success, when that is simply not true.

I am not suggesting that you are in this category but there certainly are immigration agents working in some places whose advice is poor and who actually make life worse for their clients, charging of course a huge fee for that advice. No wonder a number of embassies etc counsel people against using agents!

I heard recently about one agent that said to their client to lie on the VAF2 application form. Unfortunately the embassy picked that up because the data was not the same as supplied on an earlier VAF1 form. Needless to say the credibility of the applicant was ruined and the application was declined.

I have also heard of an agent encouraging the sponsor, in the UK, to send the embassy a fax saying that aunt was seriously ill, and could wife's visa application please be dealt with quickly because aunt might not live long and she would like to see wife before she dies. A total fiction of course!

Against that sort of background, no wonder the failure rates are higher in some places compared to others.

Not suggesting that everyone using an agent will get failed, nor that all those not using an agent will automatically succeed, but the thought is clear ..... we extremely careful when using an agent!
John

sreeni
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Location: Preston, UK

Post by sreeni » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:17 pm

actually we were approached in india by a tout who knew someone in the BHC and claimed that he would get the visa stamped etc all done in 4 days, no interview or anything just what ever documents we have and he would supply any others needed, all for a cost of Rs:50,000. I didnt go that route as i belived my application was striaght forward and i had all the documents, (even the VFS officer said my application would go smoothly as i had everything they needed) so no need to try and get a visa by lying, if you lie then you will spend whole life wondering if they will catch you and i dont want that.

also as a side issue , should i ask my company if i can go and work in the india branch? will this affect my wifes visa application?

azharali
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John Vote Liberal Democrat

Post by azharali » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:31 pm

I am sorry if you find what I say offensive I am not a tout or looking for MONEY I am a Barrister and practice law in England, I have nothing to gain by frightening people but i am against your "everything will be alright" attitude. As regards the so called statistics, if as you say the vast majority of cases are successful why is there such a long waiting period for appeals, surely they would be disposed of ever so quickly if most applicants had already succeded and only a handful were refused why the back log.

Can I also ask you with what authority do you speak, are you a lawyer do you practice immigration law in the UK, or are you just here to give your two pence worth, and bang the drum of VOTE LIBERAL, why? it is a wasted vote, your lot have not held power for OVER 100 years. less politics and more realism, and certainly not the wishy washy liberal democrat version

azharali
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STATISTICS

Post by azharali » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:51 pm

Okay if as you say there is no beloved or sexism in Britains Immigration rules i suggest you chk the statistics here>>http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/nao_ ... 304367.pdf

how is it the vast majority of all refusals are from africa and asia and hardly any from the USA or Australia and Canada, a question fo rich and poor perhaps, or race,

The relvant bit is on page 30 graph 15, it clearly shows that what you are saying is simply untrue dear john

John
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Post by John » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:56 pm

I don't disagree that some countries have a greater failure rate than others but simply do not agree that is indicative of beloved.

An applicant in say New York who provides insufficient evidence in support of a settlement visa application will get refused in exactly the same way as a similar person applying from a Visa National country.

So the statistics you mention could just as easily be indicative of the quality of evidence provided.
John

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