10 years long residence applications

nanmoom · Post by **nanmoom** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:50 am

[quote="essentialSalt"][quote="nanmoom"][quote="RK001002"]After watching this documentary from channel 4, I really regret submitting my application under 10 years when i could have done one day service under 5 years tier1 route if i waited for 10 months... Over 7 months already gone and no news.

RK001002,

Having read your comment.. i am tempted to wait until November since i am yet to submit my application. Its only 7 months away...

[/quote]

If you qualify properly (not a month short or anything like that would risk being rejected on the day or being told that "we can't make the decision on your application today and will contact you shortly with the decision" - the same as the postal application), I would go for the same day service. As an applicant, I have dealt with the home office under this government, previous one and one before that (I think so - when did the labour came to power?), my impression is unless you force those civil servants to do the work, they won't.

Depends how much you trust the home office to do the right thing.

Hi Essentialsalt,

Its is a straight forward application no concerns with the continuous period or any breaks. I need clarity, with same day service does can it be 28 days before or must be on day . if so then that takes me to 22.12.13 which is a sunday and my passport expires 31.7 13 but i have since done a new passport and i dont intend on travelling out ???

AMH · Post by **AMH** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:57 am

Essential Salt:

I'm in the same boat as you

It is very difficult to convince especially new employers. I'll be starting new job at the end of April, I have to submit original documents till then I hope I get some good news. Although employee checking service is there but 9 out of 10 new employers doesn't wanna go that route

After yesterday's programme, my worries are gone up especially after seeing those carats full of applications

BRITISH1020 · Post by **BRITISH1020** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:27 am

essentialSalt wrote:
BRITISH1020 wrote:
essentialSalt wrote:
BRITISH1020 wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no gaps & all extensions on time & no convictions .... just one point as i have crossed the limit of 540 days as cos of just one trip as stayed away for 5 months for my wife's medical emergency abroad as happened there ....so submitted everything all medical reports .... hope they agree that one trip was unavoidable and ignore that, then m well under the limit....so fingers crossed....will update as soon as i get....
How's the life as you wait for the decision? You can't change/start a job, can you?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Its hell as waiting time's killing every moment....hope the end will be soon....
I can't start a full-time job until I have the visa. I applied a month later than you. When I show the acknowledgement letter to an employer, they say "it says 6 months. What's the problem?" I don't have an answer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know & can feel ur agony as well....praying for all fellows who still waiting.... employers don't like going through employee checking serv....

Lapis · Post by **Lapis** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:50 am

essentialSalt wrote:
Lapis wrote:I am a silent reader in this forum, I must say this is a helpful site, thank you all.

After watching Channel 4 documentary tonight, I feels we should get together to fight this atrocity not to be repeated again. UKBA should pay for all the lost earning at least return £991 paid to process the application. They failed to meet their target and tried to cover it up, not only this, they employed unqualified case workers to decides future of people. What a shamble.
I don't think that's a problem as long as they can follow the guidelines. Experienced case workers seem not really needed for most cases (and waste of money keeping those experienced workers). If you read comments on Channel 4's website, some seem to argue that the growing backlog can be explained by the reduced number of employees (compulsory redundancies). I think the point of the documentary was that there might be something fundamentally wrong with their work ethnics (employee moral) and the way their offices are run (operational problems).

No EssentialSalt, you are missing the point. The problem is, do they understand the guidelines? How many times do you think this morons will continue to shift the goal post? The effect of hiring inexperienced caseworker is enormous backlogs of cases we witness here. Different cases with its own merit, experienced caseworker would be able to apply his/her wealth of knowledge/experience to deal with the cases on time and more swiftly rather than a £6 plus staff with virtually no experience at all. Lemme ask you, would you allow inexperienced surgeon to carry out a major operation on you if you aware?

essentialSalt · Post by **essentialSalt** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:15 am

Lapis wrote:
essentialSalt wrote:
Lapis wrote:I am a silent reader in this forum, I must say this is a helpful site, thank you all.

After watching Channel 4 documentary tonight, I feels we should get together to fight this atrocity not to be repeated again. UKBA should pay for all the lost earning at least return £991 paid to process the application. They failed to meet their target and tried to cover it up, not only this, they employed unqualified case workers to decides future of people. What a shamble.
I don't think that's a problem as long as they can follow the guidelines. Experienced case workers seem not really needed for most cases (and waste of money keeping those experienced workers). If you read comments on Channel 4's website, some seem to argue that the growing backlog can be explained by the reduced number of employees (compulsory redundancies). I think the point of the documentary was that there might be something fundamentally wrong with their work ethnics (employee moral) and the way their offices are run (operational problems).
No EssentialSalt, you are missing the point. The problem is, do they understand the guidelines? How many times do you think this morons will continue to shift the goal post? The effect of hiring inexperienced caseworker is enormous backlogs of cases we witness here. Different cases with its own merit, experienced caseworker would be able to apply his/her wealth of knowledge/experience to deal with the cases on time and more swiftly rather than a £6 plus staff with virtually no experience at all. Lemme ask you, would you allow inexperienced surgeon to carry out a major operation on you if you aware?

Those are the management, not the case workers. To suggest that they can't follow the guidelines means that they can't read. But I don't want to get into an argument here.

The caseworkers are not surgeons, they are administrators. To count days using some of the date functions on Excel doesn't need a medical degree. I am not saying that what they do is worthless. I am simply saying that caseworkers for the long residence simply count days.

Let's agree to disagree here.

essentialSalt · Post by **essentialSalt** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:16 am

nanmoom wrote:
essentialSalt wrote:
nanmoom wrote:
RK001002 wrote:After watching this documentary from channel 4, I really regret submitting my application under 10 years when i could have done one day service under 5 years tier1 route if i waited for 10 months... Over 7 months already gone and no news.

RK001002,

Having read your comment.. i am tempted to wait until November since i am yet to submit my application. Its only 7 months away...

If you qualify properly (not a month short or anything like that would risk being rejected on the day or being told that "we can't make the decision on your application today and will contact you shortly with the decision" - the same as the postal application), I would go for the same day service. As an applicant, I have dealt with the home office under this government, previous one and one before that (I think so - when did the labour came to power?), my impression is unless you force those civil servants to do the work, they won't.

Depends how much you trust the home office to do the right thing.

Hi Essentialsalt,

Its is a straight forward application no concerns with the continuous period or any breaks. I need clarity, with same day service does can it be 28 days before or must be on day . if so then that takes me to 22.12.13 which is a sunday and my passport expires 31.7 13 but i have since done a new passport and i dont intend on travelling out ???

I am not the right person to answer that question. Can a more experienced member answer this for her please?

DRcfox · Post by **DRcfox** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 am

I actually think there needs to be serious government intervention. It will be impossible for the UKBA to clear the backlog of applications at this rate. Possibly the government needs to call a state of emergency and employ home based military agents to assist. Breaking into categories of difficultly is a wise idea but it is too late. The work ethics in the offices were made clear on the day of the looming deadline. These are not just 50,000 files...these are 50,000 people were are talking about. I think the program was very informative...if not a little distressing. I also believe they have not delegated the tasks appropriately. Organising files on a date and type does not take that much skill. It should not be a case workers job to do this. They should only be responsible for looking into background checks and peoples files. There should be a separate team of people who just organise the files in date order and hand the files to the case workers. Once files are approved those should be then dealt with by another agent who is solely responsible for processing and sending out the documents. This would make the process so much smoother.

Where do we go from here?

Post by **Damanisshallo** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 am

nanmoom wrote:Does anyone know what the procedure is in the event that one does not receive a response before the dependants visa expires?

You will have to use FLR(M) application with a covering letter if you wish to make a SET(LR) for yourselves.

What will be the course of action the dependant has to take? Make an application to the home office for an extention and on what form?

I am thinking of putting my application through for a 10 year rule in My but my current leave takes me to December 2013 I might not get a response then. With this is mind i am tempted to do a same day service for a WP together with my dependant but i am meeting with HR to discuss how i will be treated when my fixed term contract ends on 22.12.13 ( social worker with children they still need me)

Could i make a same day service at 4 years 11 months?

Premium Service wrote:When can you make your application?
We will consider any valid application to extend your visa, regardless of when you make it. If you are applying for settlement (also known as 'indefinite leave to remain'), you will normally need to have lived in the UK or a specified length of time before you apply. This is called the 'qualifying period'. For more information, see the section of this website for your current immigration category. Do not apply for settlement more than 28 days before the end of your qualifying period. If your current permission to remain in the UK will expire before you qualify for settlement, you cannot yet apply - instead, you will need to apply for permission to extend your stay.

Lapis · Post by **Lapis** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:00 am

essentialSalt wrote:
Lapis wrote:
essentialSalt wrote:
Lapis wrote:I am a silent reader in this forum, I must say this is a helpful site, thank you all.

After watching Channel 4 documentary tonight, I feels we should get together to fight this atrocity not to be repeated again. UKBA should pay for all the lost earning at least return £991 paid to process the application. They failed to meet their target and tried to cover it up, not only this, they employed unqualified case workers to decides future of people. What a shamble.
I don't think that's a problem as long as they can follow the guidelines. Experienced case workers seem not really needed for most cases (and waste of money keeping those experienced workers). If you read comments on Channel 4's website, some seem to argue that the growing backlog can be explained by the reduced number of employees (compulsory redundancies). I think the point of the documentary was that there might be something fundamentally wrong with their work ethnics (employee moral) and the way their offices are run (operational problems).
No EssentialSalt, you are missing the point. The problem is, do they understand the guidelines? How many times do you think this morons will continue to shift the goal post? The effect of hiring inexperienced caseworker is enormous backlogs of cases we witness here. Different cases with its own merit, experienced caseworker would be able to apply his/her wealth of knowledge/experience to deal with the cases on time and more swiftly rather than a £6 plus staff with virtually no experience at all. Lemme ask you, would you allow inexperienced surgeon to carry out a major operation on you if you aware?
Those are the management, not the case workers. To suggest that they can't follow the guidelines means that they can't read. But I don't want to get into an argument here.

The caseworkers are not surgeons, they are administrators. To count days using some of the date functions on Excel doesn't need a medical degree. I am not saying that what they do is worthless. I am simply saying that caseworkers for the long residence simply count days.

Let's agree to disagree here.

Lol, every person that reads my post understand that medical staff are no where to be compared to an administrators, but the comparison in UKBA case study is, they both decide people future and it has to be done with caution and care but my statement is just an idiom. Let me clarify my statement in a layman statement that you understand... When deciding on someone's life, you allow experience people to deal with it because it could be complicated. We've read here different experiences of people in this forum that concludes that UKBA is confused on their interpretation of the so call guidelines you are referring to, good example is people applying for Set M and fLR M after thier spouse granted ILR, we've seen people went to PEO with both forms and some were successful and some not. Is it not wise to conclude that this can be traced down to £6 inexperienced caseworker? Come on, this is life and future of people we are talking about, and yet UKBA received £991 to process this applications. In other hand, I read somewhere that in a department within UKBA 60% of staff was cut, how could you not witness the backlog. UKBA is sick I am sorry.

In conclusion, my point is inexperienced caseworker taking directives from a confused UKBA management will always results in catastrophe UKBA is facing. But I am confident if there experienced caseworker, I know there would have be a whistleblower to their shambling nature of service. I hope you understand clearly now. Ciao.

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:31 pm

Damanisshallo wrote:
Spidery_thread wrote:
rgurung wrote:Hi all,
can someone on the know elaborate on the 2/5 years qualification period for an ILR dependent, where:
1. The dependent of the current ILR resident came to the UK in Dec 2009 as the dependent ofa Tier 4 Student.
2. She got her visa extended as a PSW dependent for another 2 years.
3. She now has her visa extended on FLR (M) application, with her sponsor granted ILR.

Can she apply for ILR now or in 2 years or in 5 years time? Accurate answer is very much appreciated.

Many thanks.
@rgurung,

She can apply ILR straight away as she has completed the residency requirement under old rule i.e: 2 years.

Paragraph 319AA of the Immigration Rules confirms what a “Relevant points based system migrant” is i.e. a migrant granted leave as a Tier 1 Migrant, a Tier 2 Migrant, a Tier 4 (General) Student or a Tier 5 (Temporary Worker) Migrant. Therefore, leave as the partner of a person granted leave in one of these categories is appropriate for the indefinite leave requirements in paragraph 287(a).
Sorry to interrupt, but I think you will have to wait for 2 yrs on FLR (M) before you can apply for ILR as per the recent changes.

Statement of change @ Page 12 wrote:To provide that the partner of a Points Based System migrant not on a route to settlement cannot switch into the partner route under Part 8 and amalgamate their leave as a partner under both routes towards the qualifying period for settlement.

I am not sure Damini... the way I read the word amalgamate is that you cannot bring the previous qualifying period into the present.

What I mean is... because this person is applying FLR(M) from a tier 4 dependent...(rules after 6 april 2013)...they may have to start the qualifying period again and it would be 5 years from now.

Did you came across anything which suggests otherwise and says 2 years is enough..

regards

rgurung · Post by **rgurung** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:33 pm

Damanisshallo wrote:
Spidery_thread wrote:
rgurung wrote:Hi all,
can someone on the know elaborate on the 2/5 years qualification period for an ILR dependent, where:
1. The dependent of the current ILR resident came to the UK in Dec 2009 as the dependent ofa Tier 4 Student.
2. She got her visa extended as a PSW dependent for another 2 years.
3. She now has her visa extended on FLR (M) application, with her sponsor granted ILR.

Can she apply for ILR now or in 2 years or in 5 years time? Accurate answer is very much appreciated.

Many thanks.[/quote
@rgurung,

She can apply ILR straight away as she has completed the residency requirement under old rule i.e: 2 years.

Paragraph 319AA of the Immigration Rules confirms what a “Relevant points based system migrant” is i.e. a migrant granted leave as a Tier 1 Migrant, a Tier 2 Migrant, a Tier 4 (General) Student or a Tier 5 (Temporary Worker) Migrant. Therefore, leave as the partner of a person granted leave in one of these categories is appropriate for the indefinite leave requirements in paragraph 287(a).
Sorry to interrupt, but I think you will have to wait for 2 yrs on FLR (M) before you can apply for ILR as per the recent changes.

Statement of change @ Page 12 wrote:To provide that the partner of a Points Based System migrant not on a route to settlement cannot switch into the partner route under Part 8 and amalgamate their leave as a partner under both routes towards the qualifying period for settlement.

Thanks Damanisshallo and Spidery. Conflicting replies made it even more confusing;). As Damanisshallo refers to the latest publication, my question is: does the new change apply to those who had been granted entry/extension as spouse before July 2012. There are instances in the Statement where July 2012 has been referrerd to as a point of separation between the applicability of old and new rules. Could July 2012 make a difference?

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:33 pm

@nanmoom

I don't know whats wrong with your posts but when ever you quote someone else's post in your message they are not being correctly displayed on the screen.

Could you please double check by clicking preview before you post

Thanks man

Saanju[/b]

rgurung · Post by **rgurung** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:42 pm

Also, can we consider that 'partner of a relevant point-based system' in your quote also refers to 'partner of a now settled person who used to be a migrant on non-settlement route' so to speak? I still find the provisions fuzzy.

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:53 pm

rgurung wrote:
Thanks Damanisshallo and Spidery. Conflicting replies made it even more confusing;). As Damanisshallo refers to the latest publication, my question is: does the new change apply to those who had been granted entry/extension as spouse before July 2012. There are instances in the Statement where July 2012 has been referrerd to as a point of separation between the applicability of old and new rules. Could July 2012 make a difference?

Until 6th April 2013...

If you were granted a dependent on points based visas (i.e., any Tiers regardless 1,2,4) before 9 july 2012 you can apply for ILR provided you have finished the qualifying period of 2 years. Sometimes they insisted to get an FLR(M) and then SET(M) and sometimes they gave SET(M) without FLR(M)... as we have seen few cases..

If someone gets their dependent visa after 9th july 2012 they should wait 5 years to get ILR

until here its easy and simple

After 6th April 2013

they separated the Tier 1,2 and 4 now they are saying 1,2 will have the same rules applied pre 6th April 2013 and 4 cannot get their ILR because their sponsor's visa doesn't qualify for ILR...

So the question is if a tier 4 dependent converts to FLR(M) once the sponsor get ILR through 10 yr LR... do they come into pre-9th july rules if they have been granted their 1st dependent visa before 9th july 2012 (OR)

they will be starting a fresh dependent (FLR(M)) visa..

I personally think... that they will be starting a fresh dependent visa...which will fall under post 9th July 2012 rules and they will have to wait 5 years to get a ILR..

This is my interpretation of the rules I read...but there could be difference of opinions

Lets see what others come up with

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:03 pm

Guys my BRP card arrived yesterday.

Time line

applied 15/8/12
BRP done somewhere in November
approval letter: 12/4/2013
BRPcard : 15/04/2013

time.. 3 days short of 8 months

wife's FLR(M)

posted : 21/01/2013
BRP done: In 2 week of Feb
Docs: still waiting
BRP card: still waiting

Post by **Damanisshallo** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:09 pm

I'd have thought as below.

Qualifying Period wrote:If <your first dependent visa was Issued/Applied Pre-July >then
2 yrs Qualifying Period
Else
5 Yrs Qualifying Period
End if

Calculating Qualifying Period wrote:If <your previous stay as dependent was not on route to settlement> then
You cannot add/Combine/Amalgamate your stay.
else
You can add your previous stay towards qualifying period.
end if

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:25 pm

Damanisshallo wrote:I'd have thought as below.

Qualifying Period wrote:If <your first dependent visa was Issued/Applied Pre-July >then
2 yrs Qualifying Period
Else
5 Yrs Qualifying Period
End if

Calculating Qualifying Period wrote:If <your previous stay as dependent was not on route to settlement> then
You cannot add/Combine/Amalgamate your stay.
else
You can add your previous stay towards qualifying period.
end if

That's absolutely what I thought

but Mr rgurung is on PSW previously which not a route to settlement..

unless I am missing something from his situation

rgurung · Post by **rgurung** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:28 pm

Damanisshallo wrote:I'd have thought as below.

Qualifying Period wrote:If <your first dependent visa was Issued/Applied Pre-July >then
2 yrs Qualifying Period
Else
5 Yrs Qualifying Period
End if

Calculating Qualifying Period wrote:If <your previous stay as dependent was not on route to settlement> then
You cannot add/Combine/Amalgamate your stay.
else
You can add your previous stay towards qualifying period.
end if

can you please provide me the link of the change you quoted earlier. I dont see that on page 12 of the statement of change I found in the home office website. Also I dont see any reference to '5 years after April 2013' in the latest statement of change. Even immigration lawyers with UKBA license do not have definitive answer. Much is made out of rumours and layman like me gets more confused and bemused. i must say that this board has been more reliable than everything else.

Post by **Damanisshallo** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:47 pm

rgurung wrote:can you please provide me the link of the change you quoted earlier. I dont see that on page 12 of the statement of change I found in the home office website.

Click SOC scroll right to bottom. (Technically there are 195 Pages but only last 19 pages are numbered.) So from the bottom it would be 8th page which is numbered 12.

-HTH

adkh2_1 · Post by **adkh2_1** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:58 pm

congrats man.. good luck with future...

saanju9 wrote:Guys my BRP card arrived yesterday.

Time line

applied 15/8/12
BRP done somewhere in November
approval letter: 12/4/2013
BRPcard : 15/04/2013

time.. 3 days short of 8 months

wife's FLR(M)

posted : 21/01/2013
BRP done: In 2 week of Feb
Docs: still waiting
BRP card: still waiting

Post by **Damanisshallo** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:00 pm

saanju9 wrote:
Damanisshallo wrote:I'd have thought as below.

Qualifying Period wrote:If <your first dependent visa was Issued/Applied Pre-July >then
2 yrs Qualifying Period
Else
5 Yrs Qualifying Period
End if

Calculating Qualifying Period wrote:If <your previous stay as dependent was not on route to settlement> then
You cannot add/Combine/Amalgamate your stay.
else
You can add your previous stay towards qualifying period.
end if
That's absolutely what I thought

but Mr rgurung is on PSW previously which not a route to settlement..

unless I am missing something from his situation

rgurung wrote:Hi all,
can someone on the know elaborate on the 2/5 years qualification period for an ILR dependent, where:
1. The dependent of the current ILR resident came to the UK in Dec 2009 as the dependent ofa Tier 4 Student.
2. She got her visa extended as a PSW dependent for another 2 years.
3. She now has her visa extended on FLR (M) application, with her sponsor granted ILR.

Can she apply for ILR now or in 2 years or in 5 years time? Accurate answer is very much appreciated.

Many thanks.

Since the dependent came to UK in Dec 2009 which is Pre-July on a dependent visa he/she would fall under the first condition of the first if (Qualifying Period).

Because the dependent was on a non settlement route he/she would fall under the first condition of the second if (Calculating Qualifying Period).

adkh2_1 · Post by **adkh2_1** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:02 pm

Hi Guys,

i am one of the september applicants still waiting to hear outcome of my application... i called UKBA 3 times in last 2 weeks, they always gave me same line "you have to keep on waiting"...

my latest phone call to them was yday, does this mean i am not going to get my documents this week... or i can still be hopeful that my documents might arrive this week, regardless of what ukba told me on phone....

angel62 · Post by **angel62** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:13 pm

[quote="Damanisshallo"][quote="angel62"]Dear all,
Whether Tier 2 dependents also affected or not .Not sure whether tier 2 dependents is a settlement route as for Tier 2 settlements £35000 income is required if not then 12 months cooling off period?
If tier-2 main migrant got ILR under 10 year Long residency and his income is £ 20,000 then whether his Tier -2 dependent is on settlement route or not?
Thanks[/quote]

It's simple if you qualify for settlement after the end of your visa then your dependent is on settlement route.[/quote]

I cannot apply for settlement under Tier-2 as my wages are below £35,000 then if I got ILR under long residency then my wife time spent as my PBS dependent will not count towards 2 years qualifying period.Am I right or wrong?

angel62 · Post by **angel62** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:14 pm

I cannot apply for settlement under Tier-2 as my wages are below £35,000 then if I got ILR under long residency then my wife time spent as my PBS dependent will not count towards 2 years qualifying period.Am I right or wrong?

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:32 pm

angel62 wrote:I cannot apply for settlement under Tier-2 as my wages are below £35,000 then if I got ILR under long residency then my wife time spent as my PBS dependent will not count towards 2 years qualifying period.Am I right or wrong?

No because she is a Tier 2 dependent.. she can count towards 2 years qualifying period.. so she can apply after 2 years

Damanisshallo wrote:
Since the dependent came to UK in Dec 2009 which is Pre-July on a dependent visa he/she would fall under the first condition of the first if (Qualifying Period).

Because the dependent was on a non settlement route he/she would fall under the first condition of the second if (Calculating Qualifying Period).

sorry man little over look of your algorithm in previous post.

But you said

"then
You cannot add/Combine/Amalgamate your stay.
else
You can add your previous stay towards qualifying period.
end if

in this algorithm your 1st saying you cannot and then "else" your saying you can

whats the difference between
"cannot add your stay"
and
"can add your stay towards qualifying period"

just need a bit clarity here

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