Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Now we are talking about even holidays taken within the UK maybe need to be listed and clarified by the Employer(??). This is just getting messier as how many of you remember the days you take within the UK over the 5 years?

ldbright wrote:Now we are talking about even holidays taken within the UK maybe need to be listed and clarified by the Employer(??). This is just getting messier as how many of you remember the days you take within the UK over the 5 years?

No this refers to only unpaid leaves outside UK ...

hsmpilr wrote:

ldbright wrote:Now we are talking about even holidays taken within the UK maybe need to be listed and clarified by the Employer(??). This is just getting messier as how many of you remember the days you take within the UK over the 5 years?

No this refers to only unpaid leaves outside UK ...

*ALL PAID LEAVES" should be mentioned in the *LETTER FROM EMPLOYER* Irrespective of *INSIDE OR OUTSIDE UK* as those were paid leaves . I have already confirmed this with UKBA by calling them and she was pretty sure about this. And in addition to these , we should provide all relevant supporting evidences related to absences (I believe mainly outside UK, cannot say if they need those for in country as well ).

apahuja wrote:

hsmpilr wrote:

ldbright wrote:Now we are talking about even holidays taken within the UK maybe need to be listed and clarified by the Employer(??). This is just getting messier as how many of you remember the days you take within the UK over the 5 years?

No this refers to only unpaid leaves outside UK ...

*ALL PAID LEAVES" should be mentioned in the *LETTER FROM EMPLOYER* Irrespective of *INSIDE OR OUTSIDE UK* as those were paid leaves . I have already confirmed this with UKBA by calling them and she was pretty sure about this. And in addition to these , we should provide all relevant supporting evidences related to absences (I believe mainly outside UK, cannot say if they need those for in country as well ).

Does this mean a single unpaid leave even for a day means break in the continuous period of residence ? The years gets reset ?

Guys,

Evidence in the form of a letter from the employer setting out the reasons for the absences, including annual leave, must be provided.

Is on page 20 of guidance. Take a printout of guidance and show them. There is nothing mentioning period of leave, its only absence. If they are making up rules over the phone it is their problem. Law is not (yet) made in this country over the phone.

dimension7 wrote:Guys,

Evidence in the form of a letter from the employer setting out the reasons for the absences, including annual leave, must be provided.

Is on page 20 of guidance. Take a printout of guidance and show them. There is nothing mentioning period of leave, its only absence. If they are making up rules over the phone it is their problem. Law is not (yet) made in this country over the phone.

Exactly, whoever wrote the reply on whatdotheyknow.com needs to go to gogetyourselfeducatedaboutimmigrationlaw.com before replying to people.
That person got it all wrong. If I were Parul Verma, I'd write a strong reply telling them to review their reply.

hsmpilr wrote:

apahuja wrote:

hsmpilr wrote:

ldbright wrote:Now we are talking about even holidays taken within the UK maybe need to be listed and clarified by the Employer(??). This is just getting messier as how many of you remember the days you take within the UK over the 5 years?

No this refers to only unpaid leaves outside UK ...

*ALL PAID LEAVES" should be mentioned in the *LETTER FROM EMPLOYER* Irrespective of *INSIDE OR OUTSIDE UK* as those were paid leaves . I have already confirmed this with UKBA by calling them and she was pretty sure about this. And in addition to these , we should provide all relevant supporting evidences related to absences (I believe mainly outside UK, cannot say if they need those for in country as well ).

Does this mean a single unpaid leave even for a day means break in the continuous period of residence ? The years gets reset ?

I didn't asked for unpaid leave and evidences required for that as there is no such unpaid absence in my case. But She was emphasizing that if paid leave them employer letter required otherwise personal letter with supporting documents related to your absence(i think she meant birth/death certificate etc)

[iD] wrote:I'm not even a least bit bothered tbh.
I have had total of two absences from the UK during 5 years. For one I was employed and had to leave the country because of my mother's death and for the second one I wasn't employed so I have just written a letter myself stating the fact that I was absent from the country to visit my family back home.

If anything, I'll provide my mum's death certificate with it.

I'm not in prison, I'm a free man who is and will travel anywhere he wants to. As long as those visits outside the country aren't excessive I am within my rights and my continuity of my stay in the UK doesn't break.

Anyway, one of my mate had his appointment on 8th at Solihull and he wasn't even asked for the absence letter, neither did he provide any and he got his ILR approved.

Does this mean as-long-as we are under the 180 days things must be fine (hope)

Another ridiculous response from UKBA:

*****************************************
m: Settlement Ops Policy Mailbox
UK Border Agency
10 April 2013

Dear Sir,

Paragraph 245AAA of the Immigration rules refers:

(c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant's basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.

Unpaid annual leave is not covered in the rules, therefore will break continuity as it is not contractual leave.

I trust this answers your question.

Settlement, Family and Nationality Operational Policy & Rules | Operational Systems Management | Home Office

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-377576

hsmpilr wrote: Does this mean as-long-as we are under the 180 days things must be fine (hope)

I wouldn't go as far as saying that but you deffo need letters from employers detailing your absences from the UK (or at the very least, letters confirming you being on paid/unpaid holidays + personal letter detailing the absences.)

For the period you were unemployed or self employed, a simple personal letter detailing the the absence would do.

ukswus wrote:Another ridiculous response from UKBA:

*****************************************
m: Settlement Ops Policy Mailbox
UK Border Agency
10 April 2013

Dear Sir,

Paragraph 245AAA of the Immigration rules refers:

(c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant's basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.

Unpaid annual leave is not covered in the rules, therefore will break continuity as it is not contractual leave.

I trust this answers your question.

Settlement, Family and Nationality Operational Policy & Rules | Operational Systems Management | Home Office

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-377576

They're out of their minds.
unpaid leave will never break your continuity since HSMP/T1 holders were never required to be on continuos employment.
On top of that, if employer is happy to let you have unpaid leave then it is your contractual/discretional leave.

Updated: If you can look closely, it doesn't mention Tier 1 (General)

[iD] wrote:
Updated: If you can look closely, it doesn't mention Tier 1 (General)[/color]

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? The rule says that except for periods in the listed categories (Tier 1 general is not one of them, so this applies to us), any absences must be related to employment in the UK blah blah blah.

ukswus wrote:

[iD] wrote:
Updated: If you can look closely, it doesn't mention Tier 1 (General)[/color]

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? The rule says that except for periods in the listed categories (Tier 1 general is not one of them, so this applies to us), any absences must be related to employment in the UK blah blah blah.

Oh yeah.
But no. I strongly believe that the person who replied is wrong. It would make more sense if they say that for Tier2 unpaid leave may break your continuity.
I think they got it all mixed up with T2 since it was initially required for them and they merely just added T1(G) in that without giving it a proper thought.

ukswus wrote:

[iD] wrote:
Updated: If you can look closely, it doesn't mention Tier 1 (General)[/color]

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? The rule says that except for periods in the listed categories (Tier 1 general is not one of them, so this applies to us), any absences must be related to employment in the UK blah blah blah.

Hmmmz, I think they did mention highly skilled migrants - Is this not HSMP or Tier General? I think this is really insane but I think still we have to wait and see, there will be some discussion soon here. HSMP Forum is still active, we can raise JR for this in case if we need to go for that unfortunately.

[iD] wrote:

ukswus wrote:

[iD] wrote:
Updated: If you can look closely, it doesn't mention Tier 1 (General)[/color]

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? The rule says that except for periods in the listed categories (Tier 1 general is not one of them, so this applies to us), any absences must be related to employment in the UK blah blah blah.

Oh yeah.
But no. I strongly believe that the person who replied is wrong. It would make more sense if they say that for Tier2 unpaid leave may break your continuity.
I think they got it all mixed up with T2 since it was initially required for them and they merely just added T1(G) in that without giving it a proper thought.

I hope you are right. It's as if UKBA (or Theresa May) have some kind of irrational grudge against Tier 1 General, and therefore UKBA stuff give these surreal responses. But I hope in practice they will not dare to refuse applications for such trivial reasons.

Sep08T1Applicant wrote:

ukswus wrote:

[iD] wrote:
Updated: If you can look closely, it doesn't mention Tier 1 (General)[/color]

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? The rule says that except for periods in the listed categories (Tier 1 general is not one of them, so this applies to us), any absences must be related to employment in the UK blah blah blah.

Hmmmz, I think they did mention highly skilled migrants - Is this not HSMP or Tier General? I think this is really insane but I think still we have to wait and see, there will be some discussion soon here. HSMP Forum is still active, we can raise JR for this in case if we need to go for that unfortunately.

In UKBA's view, "highly skilled migrants"=HSMP, not Tier 1 General.

Sep08T1Applicant wrote:

ukswus wrote:

[iD] wrote:
Updated: If you can look closely, it doesn't mention Tier 1 (General)[/color]

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? The rule says that except for periods in the listed categories (Tier 1 general is not one of them, so this applies to us), any absences must be related to employment in the UK blah blah blah.

Hmmmz, I think they did mention highly skilled migrants - Is this not HSMP or Tier General? I think this is really insane but I think still we have to wait and see, there will be some discussion soon here. HSMP Forum is still active, we can raise JR for this in case if we need to go for that unfortunately.

I read it (not able to get it where) clearly that HSMP means only those under appendix S (judicial review) and does not include Tier1 General.So [color] highly skilled migrant is not Tier1 [/color]

Please read this under 245AAA (b) as per current updated rules, where it is clearly saying that for T1 (G) applicants are excluded from continuous employment.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... es/part6a/

(b) Except for periods when the applicant had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant, a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor, a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer or artist, the applicant must have been employed in the UK continuously throughout the five years, under the terms of their Certificate of Sponsorship, work permit or in the employment for which they were given leave to enter or remain, except that any breaks in employment in which they applied for leave as a Tier 2 Migrant, or, under Tier 5 Temporary Worker (International Agreement) Migrant as a private servant in a diplomatic household, where in the latter case they applied to enter the UK before 6 April 2012, to work for a new employer shall be disregarded, provided this is within 60 days of the end of their employment with their previous employer or Sponsor.

ukswus wrote:Another ridiculous response from UKBA:

*****************************************
m: Settlement Ops Policy Mailbox
UK Border Agency
10 April 2013

Dear Sir,

Paragraph 245AAA of the Immigration rules refers:

(c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant's basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.

Unpaid annual leave is not covered in the rules, therefore will break continuity as it is not contractual leave.

I trust this answers your question.

Settlement, Family and Nationality Operational Policy & Rules | Operational Systems Management | Home Office

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-377576

Scroll right down to the bottom. UKBA do say that if the leave is approved by the company it will be acceptable:

"Any leave that is connected to the applicant's employment, that is, that can be evidenced as part of the company's leave policy, can be included in the 180 day limit per year. Details of this must be provided from the employer by the applicant."

Ramana66 wrote:Please read this under 245AAA (b) as per current updated rules, where it is clearly saying that for T1 (G) applicants are excluded from continuous employment.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... es/part6a/

(b) Except for periods when the applicant had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant, a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor, a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer or artist, the applicant must have been employed in the UK continuously throughout the five years, under the terms of their Certificate of Sponsorship, work permit or in the employment for which they were given leave to enter or remain, except that any breaks in employment in which they applied for leave as a Tier 2 Migrant, or, under Tier 5 Temporary Worker (International Agreement) Migrant as a private servant in a diplomatic household, where in the latter case they applied to enter the UK before 6 April 2012, to work for a new employer shall be disregarded, provided this is within 60 days of the end of their employment with their previous employer or Sponsor.

Continuous employment requirement indeed does not apply to Tier 1 General. But still there is a new rule which says that all absences abroad must be for work related (including paid leave) or compassionate/serious reasons.

Also read below rules.

245CD Requirements for indefinite leave to remain

(j) The applicant must provide the specified documents in paragraph 245CD-SD to evidence the reason for the absences set out in paragraph 245AAA.

AND (see point (b), where it says - or looking for work...

245CD-SD Specified documents

The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:

(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.

(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.

(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons - e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.

Ramana66 wrote:Also read below rules.

245CD Requirements for indefinite leave to remain

(j) The applicant must provide the specified documents in paragraph 245CD-SD to evidence the reason for the absences set out in paragraph 245AAA.

AND (see point (b), where it says - or looking for work...

245CD-SD Specified documents

The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:

(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.

(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.

(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons - e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.

If person is self-employed or looking for work, it's possible to come up with a personal letter justifying absences (although if it will satisfy UKBA may be difficult to say in advance, as they want letter detailing "absences in relation to those activities"). However, the problem arises when a person was employed and cannot get letters for such periods, or if the leave was unpaid during their employment. Personal letter then will not suffice in UKBA's view.

These rules we interpret and refer have gone round and round atleast for 20 times or more. The interpretation is the same ... that is ... we are not sure and we are confused. Having not told these conditions during the time we took the leave and later being asked to comply the rule is ridiculous.

The only information we will be able to infer from would be the success stories from the people who attend the PEO after 6th Apr 2013
Also we may get some help if we raise this to the media.

What the rules must have read is
'for leaves taken after 6 apr 2013' .... rules apply

I am really not sure what is the real 'INTENT' behind these rules ? Why did they introduce this and why are we suddenly required to comply to this new rule in retrospect

Can't agree more. Need to wait for the success stories from people and get some peace of mind (only until the rules are revised again and start to wait for the responses).

This is certainly not fair and hope this can be taken to a court someday as immigrants are not allowed to live peacefully despite they are legally entered and paying all the taxes without taking any benefits.


[quote="hsmpilr"]These rules we interpret and refer have gone round and round atleast for 20 times or more. The interpretation is the same ... that is ... we are not sure and we are confused. Having not told these conditions during the time we took the leave and later being asked to comply the rule is ridiculous.

The only information we will be able to infer from would be the success stories from the people who attend the PEO after 6th Apr 2013[/quote]