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Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Please use this section of the board for queries about Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). However please use the EEA-route section for queries about the EEA-route equivalent of Permanent Residence (PR).


This section is relevant irrespective of whether current status is Tiered or Non-Tiered.

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ldbright
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Post by ldbright » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:33 am

Thanks for sharing your experience. We need more of these to paint a clearer picture!

For most of us, we take annual leaves for non work related, personal holidays. So, in the employer's letter, what reason do our employers suppose to give? Will 'annual holiday aboard' be sufficient?
rattop wrote:The new forms are already online - they have been since Friday 5 April. It is after I read the new form (below) that I decided on use the old form! In the the new form - it specifically states:

6.2 "Evidence of all work-related absences (including paid annual leave) is required from those applying under Tier 1 (General);Tier 2 (Intra-Company Transfer);Tier 2 (General); Tier 2 (Minister of religion);
Tier 2 (Sportsperson); Tier 5 International Agreement, and permitted employment categories - except Highly Skilled Migrants."

6.3 What What evidence has been provided to support the reasons for all absences from the UK?

- Letter(s) from employer(s) detailing reasons for work-related absences including periods of paid annual leave from the UK?
- Letter from applicant detailing reasons for absence due to compelling or compassionate reasons
- Original official documents: (medical/birth/death certificate(s))
- Letter from travel companies to evidence disruption to travel
- Other

syed_ILR
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Post by syed_ILR » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:47 am

i am sure its not a big deal..we guys are just over analyzing stuff .

Remember before the rules came into effect..the text said something like minor changes to the work related settlement.

So its minor!!

purlain
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Post by purlain » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:18 am

syed_ILR wrote:i am sure its not a big deal..we guys are just over analyzing stuff .

Remember before the rules came into effect..the text said something like minor changes to the work related settlement.

So its minor!!
I can't agree with you more, mate.

hsmpilr
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Post by hsmpilr » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:42 am

syed_ILR wrote:i am sure its not a big deal..we guys are just over analyzing stuff .

Remember before the rules came into effect..the text said something like minor changes to the work related settlement.

So its minor!!
It is not a big deal only if all leaves were paid. If I had to take a leave for myself as unpaid, the complication and panic starts.

I think i am singled out here with unpaid leaves.

hsmpilr
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Re: Hi

Post by hsmpilr » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:44 am

letmec2006 wrote:
rattop wrote:Just had my appointment at Croyden PEO yesteday. Success!

As they accept old forms for 21 days after 6 April - I used the old form. I did not submit any evidence regarding my absences other than a copy of my passport and the table of absences. Case worker did not ask for any additional evidence.

I did have a letter from my current employer and one previous employers with me but I did not submit this. Reason why I did not give them these letters is because 2 of my previous employers refused to send me letters as they no longer had records of my annual leave dates.

FYI - I spoke with one of the immigration while waiting and they said that the new rule bascially means that - the only reason anyone should be leaving the country while on a tier 1 :
a) that they are working and on paid annual leave / weekends
b) they are required to travel for their work
c) The are travelling for compassionate/compelling reasons.
There you go first success story without any issue, CW don't think too much like us. They only follow a paerwork with tick boxes, if they have everything written clearly.
Can you , if you dont mind, give me the reasons you wrote on the form ? Business visit and family visit or all marked as business visit ?
Did you have any unpaid leaves ?

syed_ILR
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Post by syed_ILR » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:55 am

hsmpilr wrote:
syed_ILR wrote:i am sure its not a big deal..we guys are just over analyzing stuff .

Remember before the rules came into effect..the text said something like minor changes to the work related settlement.

So its minor!!
It is not a big deal only if all leaves were paid. If I had to take a leave for myself as unpaid, the complication and panic starts.

I think i am singled out here with unpaid leaves.
Na man! I did not start work for first 5 months of my 1st tier 1 year and went back to india. I have a doctor note for that..I am just going to frame some stupid story obviously...

tywang2006
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Post by tywang2006 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 pm

Can someone give me the sample letter for annual leave from employer. Thank you very much!

stevenxi
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Post by stevenxi » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:17 pm

According to the new reply https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/reque ... _effective


Absences must be connected to the tier 1applicant’s permitted employment, or the permitted economic activity being carried out in the UK, for example, business trips or short secondments. This also includes, if appropriate, any paid annual leave. Tier 1 (General) migrants who spend time outside of the UK between employment, cannot claim that such an absence is related to their employment or business activity, and any time spent unemployed whilst in this category should be spent seeking employment or trying to set up a business opportunity in the UK, as this was the premise upon which they were granted leave.


So you just need to claim ( as required, a personal letter) you're seeking for job during that period if you're out of UK and unemployed.

Is it correct?

katwmn6
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Re: Hi

Post by katwmn6 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:11 pm

rattop wrote:
letmec2006 wrote: There you go first success story without any issue, CW don't think too much like us. They only follow a paerwork with tick boxes, if they have everything written clearly.
I can't agree more - I am of the view that we should only provide documents that are specifically requested in the form and NO MORE. You can carry additional documents with you and give them if you are asked - but why burdon the case worker with paperwork if they don't need it???
Except the new form specifically requests evidence, as rattop pointed out.


I took a long holiday (89 days) in between jobs while on Tier 1. I also have worked remotely from different countries while in paid employment (absences my former employer most likely will not certify as business trips, as technically they weren't).

I'm desperately searching for work in London right now to meet my income threshold and I'm wondering if I should just start looking for work abroad instead. I feel so incredibly defeated, after nearly 7 years of living here (4 on Tier 1).

syed_ILR
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Post by syed_ILR » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:19 pm

tywang2006 wrote:Can someone give me the sample letter for annual leave from employer. Thank you very much!

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=52143

ukswus
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Re: Hi

Post by ukswus » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:23 pm

katwmn6 wrote:
rattop wrote:
letmec2006 wrote:

I'm desperately searching for work in London right now to meet my income threshold and I'm wondering if I should just start looking for work abroad instead. I feel so incredibly defeated, after nearly 7 years of living here (4 on Tier 1).
Before you do that, you may want to wait until we get more details about the actual application of the new rules in practice. Even if they refuse just one application based on them, it's quite possible the JR will follow, which may invalidate them.

snowball001
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Post by snowball001 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:27 pm

stevenxi wrote:According to the new reply https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/reque ... _effective


Absences must be connected to the tier 1applicant’s permitted employment, or the permitted economic activity being carried out in the UK, for example, business trips or short secondments. This also includes, if appropriate, any paid annual leave. Tier 1 (General) migrants who spend time outside of the UK between employment, cannot claim that such an absence is related to their employment or business activity, and any time spent unemployed whilst in this category should be spent seeking employment or trying to set up a business opportunity in the UK, as this was the premise upon which they were granted leave.


So you just need to claim ( as required, a personal letter) you're seeking for job during that period if you're out of UK and unemployed.

Is it correct?
I suppose they mean seeking job in the UK and therefore any time spent outside UK during unemployment breaks the continuity. However I do not agree the reasoning of this ukba officer - just because Tier 1 holder was granted leave upon a premise of seeking employment/setting up business, any absence unpaid or without employment/business activity should be considered breaking continuous stay? where is the grace period similar to the Tier 2 60 day rule or 28 overstay rule?

Sep08T1Applicant
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Re: Hi

Post by Sep08T1Applicant » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:37 pm

ukswus wrote:
katwmn6 wrote:
rattop wrote:
letmec2006 wrote:

I'm desperately searching for work in London right now to meet my income threshold and I'm wondering if I should just start looking for work abroad instead. I feel so incredibly defeated, after nearly 7 years of living here (4 on Tier 1).
Before you do that, you may want to wait until we get more details about the actual application of the new rules in practice. Even if they refuse just one application based on them, it's quite possible the JR will follow, which may invalidate them.
Exactly I agree with ukswus as it will take time, rattop has done the application using old form that was my concern, I am not making a fuss but I am sure till the new forms will be in placed we will see something more appropriate, It might be nothing but it will not reflect this week or next week using the old form or even using new form. Wait and See!!

Sep08T1Applicant
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Post by Sep08T1Applicant » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:38 pm

syed_ILR wrote:
hsmpilr wrote:
syed_ILR wrote:i am sure its not a big deal..we guys are just over analyzing stuff .

Remember before the rules came into effect..the text said something like minor changes to the work related settlement.

So its minor!!
It is not a big deal only if all leaves were paid. If I had to take a leave for myself as unpaid, the complication and panic starts.

I think i am singled out here with unpaid leaves.
Na man! I did not start work for first 5 months of my 1st tier 1 year and went back to india. I have a doctor note for that..I am just going to frame some stupid story obviously...
Me in same boat hsmpilr and syed_ILR :)

winsome
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Post by winsome » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:40 pm

This is what I have got from my office. Maybe this will help others.

To Whome It May Concern
Subject: UK Absences for Mr.XXX for last 5 years

Dear Sir / Madam,
This is to confirm that Mr XXX is a full time and permanent employee of CompanyXYZ UK since 02 Jan 2007.
Following are his list of absences from the company in UK for last 5 years and purpose which includes his work related absences and annual holidays. During all of these absences he was paid full time in the UK.
From - To - Purpose
16 Jan 2010 - 21 Jan 2010 Training at Head Office
07 May 2011 - 27 May 2011 Annual Paid Holidays
17 Apr 2012 - 02 May 2012 Annual Paid Holidays

Should you require any further information please feel free to contact us.

Yours faithfully,
XXX
HR XX

Sep08T1Applicant
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Post by Sep08T1Applicant » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:49 pm

stevenxi wrote:According to the new reply https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/reque ... _effective


Absences must be connected to the tier 1applicant’s permitted employment, or the permitted economic activity being carried out in the UK, for example, business trips or short secondments. This also includes, if appropriate, any paid annual leave. Tier 1 (General) migrants who spend time outside of the UK between employment, cannot claim that such an absence is related to their employment or business activity, and any time spent unemployed whilst in this category should be spent seeking employment or trying to set up a business opportunity in the UK, as this was the premise upon which they were granted leave.


So you just need to claim ( as required, a personal letter) you're seeking for job during that period if you're out of UK and unemployed.

Is it correct?
I think it is correct. I hope so and also it might needs some evidence like job centre letter or interview confirmation, registration with recruitment agencies, just assuming it might support your personal letter

snowball001
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Re: Hi

Post by snowball001 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:00 pm

ukswus wrote:
katwmn6 wrote:
rattop wrote:
letmec2006 wrote:

I'm desperately searching for work in London right now to meet my income threshold and I'm wondering if I should just start looking for work abroad instead. I feel so incredibly defeated, after nearly 7 years of living here (4 on Tier 1).
Before you do that, you may want to wait until we get more details about the actual application of the new rules in practice. Even if they refuse just one application based on them, it's quite possible the JR will follow, which may invalidate them.
Just compared the most recent archived Immigration Rule(valid between 01 Apr 2013 and 05 Apr 2013) and the updated version with 'minor changes regarding work-related absences'. The more strict requirement on absences, I.e. absences must be work-related(including paid annual leave) or for compelling reasons, WAS NOT applicable to Tier 1 holders (see 245AAA (b)(ii)).

Now they extracted the wording of 245AAA(b)(ii), modified a tecnical detail, i.e. changing 'consistent with the continuous employment' to 'consistent with the applicant's basis of stay here', and made this tougher rule applicable to Tier 1 holders.

If some one is rejected ILR on the ground of not fulfilling a retrospective requirement (by either taking unpaid leave or being unable to provide evidence for paid leave), another judicial review(=judicial defeat) is awaiting ukba.

hsmp505
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Post by hsmp505 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:11 pm

Here is the response from UKBA - made using What They know -


I hope this clears many confusions:


Summary of reply

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-378134


My questions related to ILR continuous period guidance are as
follows;

Question 1 :

Looking at the word "If appropriate", Can I assume UKBA is
looking for annual leaves taken while on I may have been business
trips or secondment. For eg.,
if I am deputed as secondment to another country and taken some
annual leaves during that time.
Is that's what UKBA is looking for?

Answer to Question 1: The word appropriate in the context of this sentence means that some applicants may be self-employed, and therefore would not have a contract of employment granting them paid annual leave. In such a case, the applicant must provide a letter of explanation of their business-related absences.

A person could take a trip outside of the UK for work-related reasons, and during this time spend a period of annual leave, without breaking continuity, provided the total period of the trip (including the annual leave) did not exceed 180 days in that particular 12 month period of the continuous period. Evidence of this period of annual leave would be required.

Question 2:

Do I still have to provide employer letter for annual
holidays when I was out of country even when those are not business
trips or taken during those trips as they were my own personal
visits/holidays to say home country?

Answer to Question 2: Yes, since the total permitted absences have been increased from 180 days over the whole 5 year period, to 180 days in each of the 5 years of the continuous period, all absences must be evidenced.

Question 3:

This rule / requirement has been added just now (two days ago) and
there was no such requirement 4 years ago for Tier 1 / HSMP hence
applicant never
asked my previous employers to provide such letters for personal
holidays and mostly employers don’t keep these records so
how can I arrange that
OR can I submit personal letter for those holidays (personal days)
when I was out of country?

Answer to Question 3: Applicants are advised that they must meet the requirements of the rules as the time of application for settlement, as rules are subject to change.

At the very least, most employers have a company policy on annual leave and many retain employee records for a period longer than five years. However, applicants who are not able to provide evidence of the dates of their employment-related absences, because their previous employer either cannot or will not provide it, would be advised to submit a letter of explanation containing the their previous employer's contact details. It would also be helpful if the applicant could provide evidence that they had unsuccessfully tried to obtain this information.

Question 4:

For time when I was on HSMP visa say 2008 - 2010, so for that
duration, do I have to provide proof of absences (employer’s
letter) etc or is it only for period I was on Tier 1 General (2010
- 2013)?

Answer to Question 4:

Tier 1 (General) migrants who do not qualify to apply for settlement under Appendix S of the rules are required to provide evidence of work-related absences during their pervious leave as an HSMP migrant.

Question 5

In new version of Set(O) 04/2013 question 6.2 there is exception
given for Highly Skilled Migrants (Is it for HSMP
JR Appendix S or for people who had HSMP in general)

Answer to Question 5:

The exception relates to HSMP migrants applying under Appendix S

katwmn6
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Re: Hi

Post by katwmn6 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:13 pm

Sep08T1Applicant wrote:
rattop wrote:
katwmn6 wrote:
I'm desperately searching for work in London right now to meet my income threshold and I'm wondering if I should just start looking for work abroad instead. I feel so incredibly defeated, after nearly 7 years of living here (4 on Tier 1).
Before you do that, you may want to wait until we get more details about the actual application of the new rules in practice. Even if they refuse just one application based on them, it's quite possible the JR will follow, which may invalidate them.
Exactly I agree with ukswus as it will take time, rattop has done the application using old form that was my concern, I am not making a fuss but I am sure till the new forms will be in placed we will see something more appropriate, It might be nothing but it will not reflect this week or next week using the old form or even using new form. Wait and See!!

But how long would a JR + revision of the rules take?

RJ - India
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very worried now...

Post by RJ - India » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:53 pm

... i thought my case was straightforward but this is really worrying now... I took 3 weeks off last yr (1 wk paid n 2 wks unpaid leave) to attend my brother's wedding... thats the only unpaid leave I've had in 6 years of working with the same employer.... is it likely to become an issue!!!!??

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