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Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

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cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:57 pm

abc111 wrote:Just one more question in past when I took holidays for example for 3 weeks, took them to visit my country but out of those 3 weeks I spent few days within UK, what shoud I do? Should I take the letter out by telling previous HR what days I left UK and came back and what time period I was within UK?
Yes. You can draft the letter, listing the periods you were outside the UK on annual leave (you can leave out the periods you were in the UK, as they are irrelavent). So long as your employer is willing to verify and issue this letter, confirming that you were on paid annual leave during that time period you will be fine.

dilip_gem
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Post by dilip_gem » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:57 pm

(b) Except for periods when the applicant
had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a
Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Ent
repreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional
Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant,
a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor,
a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer
or artist...

see the bold letters.. It doesn't apply for the period applicants who were on Tier1 & high skilled migrant category. So please understand this before pressing the PANIC BUTTON. Lets not create confusion here. Some people read on forums and prepare their documentation for visa. and in many cases people carry unnecessary documents (just because one of two people suggest you to carry it- example P60/P45 etc).. These documents are really NOT mandatory. If you have salary slips with NI/Tax Ref numbers that should suffice. Same applies here.. Lets not jump the gun and confuse & disappoint everyone. Thanks for your understanding..

Regards,
Gem




ukswus wrote:
abc111 wrote:
ukswus wrote:
docmac80 wrote:
(b) Except for periods when the applicant
had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a
Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Ent
repreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional
Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant,
a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor,
a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer
or artist...
So we (Tier 1 G) DON'T need employer letter for absence?! Thanks.
No, we do unfortunately. My point was that highly skilled migrants and Tier 1 holders are two different categories, as described in the immigration rules.

cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:01 pm

arajkumar82 wrote:I am going to apply ILR in person at Croydon PEO on 25th March. Currently i am on Tier1G visa and over all i was 79 days away from UK.

Will this new rules effect to me as well. I can submit the personal letter explaining the absences but it will be difficult to get a letter from employer.
As the changes are only due to come into effect on 6 April 2013, you should technically be fine without a letter. But I would have a letter ready, if you are able to get one, purely for peace of mind.

ukswus
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Post by ukswus » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:25 pm

dilip_gem wrote:(b) Except for periods when the applicant
had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a
Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Ent
repreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional
Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant,
a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor,
a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer
or artist...

see the bold letters.. It doesn't apply for the period applicants who were on Tier1 & high skilled migrant category. So please understand this before pressing the PANIC BUTTON. Lets not create confusion here. Some people read on forums and prepare their documentation for visa. and in many cases people carry unnecessary documents (just because one of two people suggest you to carry it- example P60/P45 etc).. These documents are really NOT mandatory. If you have salary slips with NI/Tax Ref numbers that should suffice. Same applies here.. Lets not jump the gun and confuse & disappoint everyone. Thanks for your understanding..

Regards,
Gem




ukswus wrote:
abc111 wrote:
ukswus wrote:
So we (Tier 1 G) DON'T need employer letter for absence?! Thanks.
No, we do unfortunately. My point was that highly skilled migrants and Tier 1 holders are two different categories, as described in the immigration rules.
A word of advice: before you lecture others, make sure you understand what you are talking about. Going back and reading the statement of changes, and comparing it with the existing rules would be a good start. I spent a couple of hours doing it, but at least I think I warned quite a few people who otherwise would have failed.

cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:48 pm

dilip_gem wrote:(b) Except for periods when the applicant
had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a
Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Ent
repreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional
Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant,
a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor,
a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer
or artist... the applicant must have been employed in the UK continuously throughout the five years, under the terms of their Certificate of Sponsorship, work permit or in the employment for which they were given leave to enter or remain, except that any breaks in employment in which they applied for leave as a Tier 2 Migrant, or, under Tier 5 Temporary Worker (International Agreement) Migrant as a private servant in a diplomatic household, where in the latter case they applied to enter the UK before 6 April 2012, to work for a new employer shall be disregarded, provided this is within 60 days of the end of their employment with their previous employer or Sponsor.
(c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant’s basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.”


see the bold letters.. It doesn't apply for the period applicants who were on Tier1 & high skilled migrant category. So please understand this before pressing the PANIC BUTTON. Lets not create confusion here. Some people read on forums and prepare their documentation for visa. and in many cases people carry unnecessary documents (just because one of two people suggest you to carry it- example P60/P45 etc).. These documents are really NOT mandatory. If you have salary slips with NI/Tax Ref numbers that should suffice. Same applies here.. Lets not jump the gun and confuse & disappoint everyone. Thanks for your understanding..

Regards,
Gem
I can understand/see why people are divided in their interpretation/understanding of the changes to the rules in this topic. I however do believe that the intention and purpose of the statement of changes are for Tier 1 applicants. The wording may not be the best. But if you read the following point alone, you will see that this is only something that could be intended for a Tier 1 applicant. The reason being, T2 employer sponsored migrants would not be self-employed or setting-up businesses. They would be in paid permanent employment. "(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.". There are 3 points under 245CD-SD, which cater towards confirming absences that would apply to both T1 & T2 migrants. I.e. absences (business or annual leave) for those who are in permanent employment - E.g. T1 or T2, absences for those who are self-employed - E.g. T1 only, absences that were due to serious or compelling compassionate reasons - E.g. T1 or T2.

When reading the statement of changes along with the current immigration rules, I urge you to read all points under the rules applicable, so that you don't lose context. Sometimes when you read one piece of information on its own, the meaning can change. The following should all be read to understand the T1G changes for ILR.

245AAA a), b) & c).
245CD - all points from a) to j).
(j) The applicant must provide the specified documents in paragraph 245CD-SD to evidence the reason for the absences set out in paragraph 245AAA
245CD-SD - Here read points sub-points a) to c) which apply to 245CD(j).
245CD-SD Specified documents
The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:
(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.
- Could apply to either T1 or T2 Migrants.
(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities. - Can only apply to T1 Migrants - therefore there would be no point in including this here if as you say it were not applicable to T1 Migrants according to 245AAA.
(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons – e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK. - Could apply to T1 or T2 Migrants.

abc111
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Post by abc111 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:54 am

So for example a Tier 1 (G) holder took holidays, say 01/01/2010 to 25/01/2010 and he left UK on 03/01/2010 and returned back in UK on 22/01/2010 should employer's letter (on company's letter head) state that:


HOME OFFICE ADDRESS

It is to confirm that Mr. XXX was employed as xxx Engineer with us from dates (say) 05/05/2009 until 10/07/2010 and he took annual holidays from 01/01/2010 to 25/01/2010 to visit his home abroad.

Please don't hesitate to contact me should you havea any queries in this regard.

Yours faithfully
HR PERSON NAME and CONTACT DETAILS


Pleae advise thanks.

abc987
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Post by abc987 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:09 pm

Hi, I've just bumped into this forum and saw this really interesting discussion. Having read through all posts and documentation I do believe that the change will impact all ILR applicants on Tier 1 from 6 April 2013. The reason has already been described by a couple of people so I wouldn't go into details.

However, I believe that it will be next to impossible to implement the requirement operationally. For instance, I have changed 3 jobs in the last 5 years and there is no way that my employer of 2008 will maintain a record of my annual leave absences 5 years after I have left. Most organisations have quite rigid policies around retention of personal data with 3 years being a norm at a number of places. Further, even when the employer does have a record of the annual leave how are they supposed to know whether I spent my holiday in UK or Uganda. So realistically all the employer can provide is a list of recorded absences.

My approach would be to contact all previous employers for absence details. In case they do not have this info or refuse to provide it I would just attach the written correspondence with the employer as proof. Not sure if anything else can be done ..

[iD]
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Post by [iD] » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:25 pm

abc987 wrote: However, I believe that it will be next to impossible to implement the requirement operationally. For instance, I have changed 3 jobs in the last 5 years and there is no way that my employer of 2008 will maintain a record of my annual leave absences 5 years after I have left. Most organisations have quite rigid policies around retention of personal data with 3 years being a norm at a number of places. Further, even when the employer does have a record of the annual leave how are they supposed to know whether I spent my holiday in UK or Uganda. So realistically all the employer can provide is a list of recorded absences.

Exactly! Also, since when you have to tell your employer why you're taking your annual leave for. For all they care you could just sit at home watching footy. How on earth could your employer give a written statement that you were out of country to see your family. If they do that, they'd be breaking the law because there is no way on earth they can be 100% sure about it.

They can only confirm if you were out of the country for business related absence. Anything other than that is you and only you who can confirm.

Absolutely pathetic requirement by a bunch of morons.
Goodluck.

Kevin24
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Post by Kevin24 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:34 pm

abc111 wrote:So for example a Tier 1 (G) holder took holidays, say 01/01/2010 to 25/01/2010 and he left UK on 03/01/2010 and returned back in UK on 22/01/2010 should employer's letter (on company's letter head) state that:


HOME OFFICE ADDRESS

It is to confirm that Mr. XXX was employed as xxx Engineer with us from dates (say) 05/05/2009 until 10/07/2010 and he took annual holidays from 01/01/2010 to 25/01/2010 to visit his home abroad.

Please don't hesitate to contact me should you havea any queries in this regard.

Yours faithfully
HR PERSON NAME and CONTACT DETAILS


Pleae advise thanks.
Only Employer could confirm the last day you worked before you took your Annual Leave and the date you returned to work.This leave is part of your annual leave entitlement.

abc111
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Post by abc111 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:02 pm

Kevin24 wrote:
abc111 wrote:So for example a Tier 1 (G) holder took holidays, say 01/01/2010 to 25/01/2010 and he left UK on 03/01/2010 and returned back in UK on 22/01/2010 should employer's letter (on company's letter head) state that:


HOME OFFICE ADDRESS

It is to confirm that Mr. XXX was employed as xxx Engineer with us from dates (say) 05/05/2009 until 10/07/2010 and he took annual holidays from 01/01/2010 to 25/01/2010 to visit his home abroad.

Please don't hesitate to contact me should you havea any queries in this regard.

Yours faithfully
HR PERSON NAME and CONTACT DETAILS


Pleae advise thanks.
Only Employer could confirm the last day you worked before you took your Annual Leave and the date you returned to work.This leave is part of your annual leave entitlement.
So take the letter for the original (total) holidays taken and then add a personal letter explaining when left UK and arrived back!!!
Thanks.

goodmann
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Post by goodmann » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:44 am

hi guys,
do you think these changes/requirements will affect ILR applications under 'Long residence and private life' ?
We Live by God's Grace

cs95tdg
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Location: London

Post by cs95tdg » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:26 pm

abc111 wrote:So take the letter for the original (total) holidays taken and then add a personal letter explaining when left UK and arrived back!!!
Thanks.
When I got my letter, I drafted it myself, listing the explicit time periods where I was on leave & outside the UK. Your employer would be able to confirm that you were on leave during these time periods. This way, there is no requirement to add a personal letter explaining the time you were actually outside the UK, vs. the time you were on leave in the UK. This will make your application evidence concise.

ashdaone1
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Post by ashdaone1 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:09 pm

Hello All,

This rule seems to have confused quite a lot of us. Thanks to everyone for sharing their view. However I fail to see the reason why Tier1 candidates should be alarmed.

To start with, I would just like to confirm that I am looking at the right document :

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Secondly, point 24 replaces paragraph 245AAA (b). The second point states the following:

c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant’s basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.

So, this applies to all Tier1 applicants. It says that any absences should be consistent with your status here including paid leaves. So, where is the confusion?

I have read the whole thread twice and I am unable to draw a link between this statement and the fact that even "consistent holidays" need to be justified. What am I missing?

Thanks,
Ash

lnd2lnd2
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Post by lnd2lnd2 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:35 pm

ashdaone1 wrote:Hello All,

This rule seems to have confused quite a lot of us. Thanks to everyone for sharing their view. However I fail to see the reason why Tier1 candidates should be alarmed.

To start with, I would just like to confirm that I am looking at the right document :

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Secondly, point 24 replaces paragraph 245AAA (b). The second point states the following:

c) Except for periods where the applicant had leave as a Tier 1(Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1(Exceptional Talent) Migrant or a highly skilled migrant, any absences from the UK during the five years must have been for a purpose that is consistent with the applicant’s basis of stay here, including paid annual leave, or for serious or compelling reasons.

So, this applies to all Tier1 applicants. It says that any absences should be consistent with your status here including paid leaves. So, where is the confusion?

I have read the whole thread twice and I am unable to draw a link between this statement and the fact that even "consistent holidays" need to be justified. What am I missing?

Thanks,
Ash
Hi Ash,

What if I left the country and I wasn't employed that time? And it wasn't a serious reason to go abroad. I just decided to have a holiday between two jobs.

sunita80
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Post by sunita80 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:37 pm

I am in the same boat! I changed two jobs in last 5 yrs; I am on Tier 1 G and applying 1st week of May.
There is no way my previous employers would certify my personal annual leave. My days out of UK on holidays (paid annual leave) are around 130, which over 5 years is 26 days per yr on an average out of UK. My employment contracts state 25 days paid leave per year.
For any sane and normal person these two numbers would look consistent and would not need any further explanation.

My question is could we use these as evidences for annual leave out of UK:
-Previous employment contracts in last 5 years which state Paid leave days allowed
-Bank statement summary and P60's for last 5 years plus HMRC tax summary which show that I have been paid for all 5 years.

Would these not be sufficient to prove that all leave was paid!?

Either way I think this requirement is way over the top...stupid one can say!!

jmukhtar
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Post by jmukhtar » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:50 pm

Called UKBA helpline number and lady confirmed that it is required for all of the categories.

I am not sure how to provide these as letters...... it is a bit too much and that too all of a sudden.

sunita80
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Post by sunita80 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:03 pm

You bet! Its hysterical

ashdaone1
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Post by ashdaone1 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:18 pm

jmukhtar wrote:Called UKBA helpline number and lady confirmed that it is required for all of the categories.

I am not sure how to provide these as letters...... it is a bit too much and that too all of a sudden.
Did you get a chance to ask if the letters are required even if you are within the 180 days limit?

Thanks

Yash001
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Post by Yash001 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:55 pm

I think we should wait for ukba site to be updated with new rules that would clarify a lot ...

RRSB2012
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Post by RRSB2012 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:09 pm

Hi Everyone,

If we can make a summary statement showing date of exit and date of entry in UK and get it certified from the employer, would that serve the purpose.

Making individual letters for all travels would be too hectic for everyone, ourselves, employer and UKBA case worker.

I have about 8 trips a year, means 40 letters? doesnt sounds right!

Any comments?
R

jmukhtar
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Post by jmukhtar » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:01 am

UKBA helpline staff was not sure how this will be implemented as they don't have the guidance yet.

I spoke to couple of immigration lawyers and no body was sure about this. All were saying that wait till they release new versions of forms.

Also what proof should be provided if i left UK on Friday evening after work and came back on Sunday evening. In this case employer can not say that i was on holidays.

Too much confusion......

[iD]
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Post by [iD] » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:27 am

jmukhtar wrote:Also what proof should be provided if i left UK on Friday evening after work and came back on Sunday evening. In this case employer can not say that i was on holidays.
This is interesting. I guess people coming out with this policy never thought it through.
My two cents would be to give a personal letter, as that makes more sense. Stamps on your passport should help you with dates.
Goodluck.

sheraz_aries
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Post by sheraz_aries » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:33 pm

Any updates on this guys?
Many Thanks

rajan1981
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Post by rajan1981 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:22 pm

Hi sheraz_aries,

I have been watching this for the last couple of days as my ILR is due on the 12th April. Hoping to see some info once the UKBA site gets back after today's maintenance window!

Fingers Crossed.

sheraz_aries
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Post by sheraz_aries » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:03 pm

rajan1981 wrote:Hi sheraz_aries,

I have been watching this for the last couple of days as my ILR is due on the 12th April. Hoping to see some info once the UKBA site gets back after today's maintenance window!

Fingers Crossed.
what about below:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ules-april
Many Thanks

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