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Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

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ukswus
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Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Post by ukswus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:20 pm

Today's "minor" immigration change means the following:

If in the past, Tier 1 general holders did not have to justify any of their absences, as long as they were under 180 day limit, now (like tier 2 holders) they would have to prove their every single absence:


The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:
(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.
(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.
(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons – e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.”

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

seba
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Post by seba » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:38 pm

Hi, Thanks for sharing. I have seen the link, is there any specific statement this could be applied for Tier 1 G holders as well ?

Also, this changes will come in to effect by 6th Apr 2013 right.

Thanks

ukswus
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Post by ukswus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:49 pm

seba wrote:Hi, Thanks for sharing. I have seen the link, is there any specific statement this could be applied for Tier 1 G holders as well ?

Also, this changes will come in to effect by 6th Apr 2013 right.

Thanks
Yes, it specifically applies to Tier 1 general only, as you can see by referring to paragraph 245CD(j) in Immigration rules.

go2khurram
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Post by go2khurram » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:16 pm

I am in Tier 1 (General) and I am planning to send my ILR (postal) application on 5th April (under old fee structure). I have only 15, 23 and 14 days of absence in mar 2009, sep 2009 and june 2011 respectively. Do I still need to take letter form my employer if so what should be contents of this letter.

Thanks

CD_April2013ILR
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Post by CD_April2013ILR » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:16 pm

Hope they require only a personal letter stating the absense reason. And it would come into effect only from 06th April, 2013.

Can anyone explan what does the below mean

7.6 The Tier 1 (General) category, for highly skilled workers, is now closed to new applicants but remains open for extension and settlement applications. A small change is being made to this category in response to the introduction of the Government’s new “employee-owner” initiative. The change confirms that if applicants exchange some of their UK employment rights for shares as an employee-owner, the value of those shares will not be included when calculating the points awarded for an applicant’s previous earnings.

Does it mean you can only take salary and no dividends for awarding points to previous earnings???? :( :(

If this is true then it is going to effect lot of people.

uksettlement
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Post by uksettlement » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:34 pm

CD_April2013ILR wrote:
7.6 The Tier 1 (General) category, for highly skilled workers, is now closed to new applicants but remains open for extension and settlement applications. A small change is being made to this category in response to the introduction of the Government’s new “employee-owner” initiative. The change confirms that if applicants exchange some of their UK employment rights for shares as an employee-owner, the value of those shares will not be included when calculating the points awarded for an applicant’s previous earnings.

Does it mean you can only take salary and no dividends for awarding points to previous earnings???? :( :(
No it means that from your gross salary you have to deduct any pay which you are putting towards buying share of the company that you work for. Guys please correct me if you think my understanding isn't correct!
Thanks!

Disclaimer: I am no immigration lawyer nor am I OISC qualified. Suggestions given by me are based on personal experience of dealing with UKBA. Don't treat my advice as a substitute for legal opinion.

CD_April2013ILR
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Post by CD_April2013ILR » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:40 pm

Yes that is for permanent employee in Tier1 General category.

But for self employed people who do contracting through their own limited company. They take Salary + Dividend. Hope it is going to effect them. Till now they take less salary and more dividend....

correct me if I am wrong....

aamir421
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Re: Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Post by aamir421 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:09 pm

I did not get it...I am on tier 1 general visa and eligible to apply for ILR after 28 June 2013...

I have been visiting my country (Pakistan) every year except in 2012. In total i was out of country for 70 days plus i am going to Germany for 3 days tonight for holidays...

How am i effected and what explaination do i have to give... I was going for holidays every year...is there any problem??

please explain in detail

Thanks

ukswus wrote:Today's "minor" immigration change means the following:

If in the past, Tier 1 general holders did not have to justify any of their absences, as long as they were under 180 day limit, now (like tier 2 holders) they would have to prove their every single absence:


The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:
(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.
(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.
(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons – e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.”

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

ukswus
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Re: Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Post by ukswus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:29 pm

aamir421 wrote:I did not get it...I am on tier 1 general visa and eligible to apply for ILR after 28 June 2013...

I have been visiting my country (Pakistan) every year except in 2012. In total i was out of country for 70 days plus i am going to Germany for 3 days tonight for holidays...

How am i effected and what explaination do i have to give... I was going for holidays every year...is there any problem??

please explain in detail

Thanks

ukswus wrote:Today's "minor" immigration change means the following:

If in the past, Tier 1 general holders did not have to justify any of their absences, as long as they were under 180 day limit, now (like tier 2 holders) they would have to prove their every single absence:


The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:
(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.
(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.
(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons – e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.”

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
From now on, you will have to provide letters from your previous employers for every single day you were out of the country (if you were employed at the time). Even if you were away just for 3 days over 5 years.

aamir421
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Re: Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Post by aamir421 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:36 pm

What the hell UKBA is doing..

I went for holidays to see my family. Like any normal person will go.
i went in 2009, 2010 to see my family and 2011 for my wedding.
and my employers gave me paid holidays what will they write other then annual statutory holidays...

it doesnt make anyyy sense..

and i left my previous job in 2009. why do i need to go back and remind my employer that when i was working for him 4 years ago i went to see my family and ask him to write this on a letter.

This is bullshitt
can you please discuss this ukswus
ukswus wrote:
aamir421 wrote:I did not get it...I am on tier 1 general visa and eligible to apply for ILR after 28 June 2013...

I have been visiting my country (Pakistan) every year except in 2012. In total i was out of country for 70 days plus i am going to Germany for 3 days tonight for holidays...

How am i effected and what explaination do i have to give... I was going for holidays every year...is there any problem??

please explain in detail

Thanks

ukswus wrote:Today's "minor" immigration change means the following:

If in the past, Tier 1 general holders did not have to justify any of their absences, as long as they were under 180 day limit, now (like tier 2 holders) they would have to prove their every single absence:


The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:
(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.
(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.
(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons – e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.”

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
From now on, you will have to provide letters from your previous employers for every single day you were out of the country (if you were employed at the time). Even if you were away just for 3 days over 5 years.

ukswus
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Re: Actually, a very bad news for Tier 1 general holders

Post by ukswus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:40 pm

aamir421 wrote:What the hell UKBA is doing..

I went for holidays to see my family. Like any normal person will go.
i went in 2009, 2010 to see my family and 2011 for my wedding.
and my employers gave me paid holidays what will they write other then annual statutory holidays...

it doesnt make anyyy sense..

and i left my previous job in 2009. why do i need to go back and remind my employer that when i was working for him 4 years ago i went to see my family and ask him to write this on a letter.

This is bullshitt
ukswus wrote:
aamir421 wrote:I did not get it...I am on tier 1 general visa and eligible to apply for ILR after 28 June 2013...

I have been visiting my country (Pakistan) every year except in 2012. In total i was out of country for 70 days plus i am going to Germany for 3 days tonight for holidays...

How am i effected and what explaination do i have to give... I was going for holidays every year...is there any problem??

please explain in detail

Thanks

ukswus wrote:Today's "minor" immigration change means the following:

If in the past, Tier 1 general holders did not have to justify any of their absences, as long as they were under 180 day limit, now (like tier 2 holders) they would have to prove their every single absence:


The specified documents referred to in paragraph 245CD(j) are:
(a) For periods where the applicant was in employment in the UK, a letter from the employer detailing the purpose and period of absences in connection with the employment, including periods of annual leave.
(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.
(c) A personal letter from the applicant which includes full details of the reason for the absences and all original supporting documents in relation to those reasons – e.g. medical certificates, birth/death certificates, information about the reasons which led to the absence from the UK.”

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
From now on, you will have to provide letters from your previous employers for every single day you were out of the country (if you were employed at the time). Even if you were away just for 3 days over 5 years.
that's exactly what they want, unfortunately. I have already started to contact my previous employers.

anandh79
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Post by anandh79 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:00 pm

Hi,

This is really shocking news.

1.How are we going to treat on short trips made during bank holidays or extended weekend

2. Many companies pple have taken comp off from their managers, how are they going to check that.

3. Even if the employers are ready to give us letter, should it be dated before one month on the date of application.

4. If the date of departure and arrival is not counted, should we get the letter from employer starting from next day of departure.

I can apply on 4th of April, but my number of absence comes exactly to 179 and am bit scared to do so.

docmac80
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Post by docmac80 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:20 pm

I reckon the reason for this change is to address current Tier 1 General ILR applicants, who were previously on one of the lower categories (eg. tier 2, WP, etc) in the earlier part of their 5 year qualifying period........I dont believe they expect such evidence for applicants whose 5 years qualifying period is under HSMP + Tier 1 General.

When reading the new paragraph 245AAA(c), note that Tier 1 General is in fact a "highly skilled migrant".....so I think the evidence specified in the new paragraph 245CD-SD is only relevant if you were on a WP or lower tier at an earlier point in your 5 year qualifying period (as per the new 245AAA(c).)

ukswus
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Post by ukswus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:20 pm

docmac80 wrote:I reckon the reason for this change is to address current Tier 1 General ILR applicants, who were previously on one of the lower categories (eg. tier 2, WP, etc) in the earlier part of their 5 year qualifying period........I dont believe they expect such evidence for applicants whose 5 years qualifying period is under HSMP + Tier 1 General.

When reading the new paragraph 245AAA(c), note that Tier 1 General is in fact a "highly skilled migrant".....so I think the evidence specified in the new paragraph 245CD-SD is only relevant if you were on a WP or lower tier at an earlier point in your 5 year qualifying period (as per the new 245AAA(c).)
No, in fact, a highly skilled migrant=HSMP. Look at 245AAA(b), where they have both Tier 1 General and highly skilled migrant categories.

cs95tdg
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Post by cs95tdg » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:27 pm

docmac80 wrote:When reading the new paragraph 245AAA(c), note that Tier 1 General is in fact a "highly skilled migrant".....so I think the evidence specified in the new paragraph 245CD-SD is only relevant if you were on a WP or lower tier at an earlier point in your 5 year qualifying period (as per the new 245AAA(c).)
I'd have to disagree with this interpretation.

If you read point b) under 245CD-SD you'll understand why your interpretation cannot be correct. I.e. a Tier 2 or WP Holder, would not have been self-employed as indicated in that point. So the theory that this new change is only mean't for those who have a residence period formed of both Employer Sponsored and Non-Employer Sponsored residence does not hold true.

(b) For periods where the applicant was self-employed or in business in the UK, or looking for work or setting up in business in the UK, a personal letter from the applicant detailing the purpose and period of absences in relation to those activities.

samira_uk
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Post by samira_uk » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:50 pm

These changes are meaningless and I think all of them can be challenged in Court or European courts as they are not fair and none of us were aware of such things when we were absent from UK in the previous years. All of us left the UK on assumption that there will be no need to provide any document and now they need it!!!

In addition, there are many complicated cases. For example, myself in my first year worked in a company on hourly basis and even without contract! It was a cheap job only to do something and earn a little money. After two months, I told them I want to go to my country for some reasons which I dont remember and this absence would be temporary. Actually, I went to my country to evaluate a business opportunity in UK. I came back to UK after two months and continue that hourly rate job and one day I left them permanently due to terrible job condition.

Now, I am unable to get any letter from them as I did not have any contract with them (but HMRC was aware of my job). In addition, I am in which category? I was employed but at the same time looking to set up a business then should I get letter from them (which is impossible and actually I did not have any paid leave as my job was hourly based) or I should write my letter and explain the situation?

Again, there were times that I did not work and I left the UK for holiday and visiting family only. Then, what should I provide? I could not get any letter from any employer and I did not leave the UK for business purposes. I left it for some normal and personal reasons.

There are many other scenarios which make these changes terrible. I guess they will not be enforced strictly as they are aware if they refuse for such junk reason they should deal with high amount of appeals. At the moment, I know many ones who applied for ILR based on Tier 1 G+WP and they did not provide any documentary evidence for their WP period and all of them were accepted.
Last edited by samira_uk on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

docmac80
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Post by docmac80 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:51 pm

So is a Tier 1 General not a highly skilled migrant? According to the below link it is. In which case paragraph 245AAA(c) would be relevant.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... ing/tier1/

shal1981
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Post by shal1981 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:19 pm

Any changes to Tier 2 ICT Category or to settlement rules ?

ukswus
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Post by ukswus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:48 pm

docmac80 wrote:So is a Tier 1 General not a highly skilled migrant? According to the below link it is. In which case paragraph 245AAA(c) would be relevant.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... ing/tier1/
(b) Except for periods when the applicant
had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a
Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Ent
repreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional
Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant,
a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor,
a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer
or artist...

abc111
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Post by abc111 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:56 pm

ukswus wrote:
docmac80 wrote:
(b) Except for periods when the applicant
had leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, a
Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Ent
repreneur) Migrant, a Tier 1 (Exceptional
Talent) Migrant, a highly skilled migrant,
a Businessperson, an Innovator, an Investor,
a self-employed lawyer or a writer, composer
or artist...
So we (Tier 1 G) DON'T need employer letter for absence?! Thanks.

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