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After April, 2006 but before Nov, 2006.

Please use this section of the board for queries about Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). However please use the EEA-route section for queries about the EEA-route equivalent of Permanent Residence (PR).


This section is relevant irrespective of whether current status is Tiered or Non-Tiered.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

Son_of_Soil
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Post by Son_of_Soil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:09 am

Hello Fora
Yes i am covered by HSMP JR pre november 2006 application.

fora wrote:Hi,Son_of_Soil.Are u covered by HSMP JR policy?

Son_of_Soil
Member of Standing
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:20 am

Post by Son_of_Soil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:36 am

Can i request all members not to provide wrong info if they are not sure about the answer. HSMP JR policy document states at the end that dependents will follow the status of main application. Now the pronlem is HO dnt understand the meaning of this statement. It was my 6th call to HO (in 4 weeks) yesterday and i spoke to MRs Brown, she told me my wife will have to spend 2 years even if i am covered by JR.According the them it seems l they look at your recent leave (in my case it TIER1, after i exteneded my HSMP under old 65 point rule) and then look at the guidelines, and in guidelines the follow the TIER1 not HSMP.
i went through throu the Set O form and JR policy document with her,and then she went to her Manager to confirm this, she came back with the same answer that she will have to spend 2 years). when i defended that, she told me she has given me the correct info and if i still want to apply ILR for my wife , it will be at my own risk..

So all the managers and staff are not fully aware of the JR and what it covers. After 6 calls to HO, i am still confused.

mk357
Member of Standing
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:54 pm

Post by mk357 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:06 pm

rajesh_kumar01 wrote:
mk357 wrote:
fora wrote:It concerns only those who apply under HSMP JR(no 2 years for cohabition)
Even for HSMP (JR) it is required, please check the Set(O) form which is applicable to HSMP applicants. But my guess would be it would depend on the caseworker that deals with the case.
If you don't know better don't give wrong information. Person comes to forum when (s)he can't get clear view from the forum . If you start citing form here then its waste of space and time.

HSMP JR covered applicant does,'t need to proof 2 years cohabitancy.
Its right that people come here for information and that is why I referred to SET(O) form. I think you also haven't read it. Let me just state what it says in 10A:
"All applicants must provide the relevant documents specified in 10A. You must also provide the relevant documents specified in 10B to 10V for the category in which you are applying.
Please note that in some cases, we may have to ask for other documents in addition to those specified in this form."
And then in the same Section 10A it says:
"If you have a spouse or civil partner listed in section 2 of this application form who is applying at the same time as you, please provide documentary evidence of cohabitation since you were last granted leave (up to a maximum of two years). Evidence provided should cover the whole period and be in the form of official letters or documents, addressed to yourself and your spouse."

Now I leave it to you to interpret may be my language is not good enough.

Son_of_Soil
Member of Standing
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:20 am

Post by Son_of_Soil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:28 pm

Hi Mk357

So according to you even for main applicants under HSMP JR their dependents need to spend 2 years? if yes, then what does the statement given in JR policy documents where it says dependent follows main applicatnt?

Thank
mk357 wrote:
rajesh_kumar01 wrote:
mk357 wrote:
fora wrote:It concerns only those who apply under HSMP JR(no 2 years for cohabition)
Even for HSMP (JR) it is required, please check the Set(O) form which is applicable to HSMP applicants. But my guess would be it would depend on the caseworker that deals with the case.
If you don't know better don't give wrong information. Person comes to forum when (s)he can't get clear view from the forum . If you start citing form here then its waste of space and time.

HSMP JR covered applicant does,'t need to proof 2 years cohabitancy.
Its right that people come here for information and that is why I referred to SET(O) form. I think you also haven't read it. Let me just state what it says in 10A:
"All applicants must provide the relevant documents specified in 10A. You must also provide the relevant documents specified in 10B to 10V for the category in which you are applying.
Please note that in some cases, we may have to ask for other documents in addition to those specified in this form."
And then in the same Section 10A it says:
"If you have a spouse or civil partner listed in section 2 of this application form who is applying at the same time as you, please provide documentary evidence of cohabitation since you were last granted leave (up to a maximum of two years). Evidence provided should cover the whole period and be in the form of official letters or documents, addressed to yourself and your spouse."

Now I leave it to you to interpret may be my language is not good enough.

mk357
Member of Standing
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:54 pm

Post by mk357 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:41 pm

Son_of_Soil wrote:Hi Mk357

So according to you even for main applicants under HSMP JR their dependents need to spend 2 years? if yes, then what does the statement given in JR policy documents where it says dependent follows main applicatnt?

Thank
mk357 wrote:
rajesh_kumar01 wrote:
mk357 wrote:
Even for HSMP (JR) it is required, please check the Set(O) form which is applicable to HSMP applicants. But my guess would be it would depend on the caseworker that deals with the case.
If you don't know better don't give wrong information. Person comes to forum when (s)he can't get clear view from the forum . If you start citing form here then its waste of space and time.

HSMP JR covered applicant does,'t need to proof 2 years cohabitancy.
Its right that people come here for information and that is why I referred to SET(O) form. I think you also haven't read it. Let me just state what it says in 10A:
"All applicants must provide the relevant documents specified in 10A. You must also provide the relevant documents specified in 10B to 10V for the category in which you are applying.
Please note that in some cases, we may have to ask for other documents in addition to those specified in this form."
And then in the same Section 10A it says:
"If you have a spouse or civil partner listed in section 2 of this application form who is applying at the same time as you, please provide documentary evidence of cohabitation since you were last granted leave (up to a maximum of two years). Evidence provided should cover the whole period and be in the form of official letters or documents, addressed to yourself and your spouse."

Now I leave it to you to interpret may be my language is not good enough.
Please don't quote me wrong. Its not according to me but the SET(O) Form which I have reproduced. Dependants also include children and this section does not apply on children but spouse only. Or may be it is in cases where the spouse has not previously been granted a dependant visa. But there is a condition about spouse living together for 2 years on the UK BIA website. I need to find that out. By the way I would also be affected by this as I fall under the HSMP JR.

rajesh_kumar01
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Location: Excel 2003

Post by rajesh_kumar01 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:00 pm

mk357 wrote:
rajesh_kumar01 wrote:
mk357 wrote:
fora wrote:It concerns only those who apply under HSMP JR(no 2 years for cohabition)
Even for HSMP (JR) it is required, please check the Set(O) form which is applicable to HSMP applicants. But my guess would be it would depend on the caseworker that deals with the case.
If you don't know better don't give wrong information. Person comes to forum when (s)he can't get clear view from the forum . If you start citing form here then its waste of space and time.

HSMP JR covered applicant does,'t need to proof 2 years cohabitancy.
Its right that people come here for information and that is why I referred to SET(O) form. I think you also haven't read it. Let me just state what it says in 10A:
"All applicants must provide the relevant documents specified in 10A. You must also provide the relevant documents specified in 10B to 10V for the category in which you are applying.
Please note that in some cases, we may have to ask for other documents in addition to those specified in this form."
And then in the same Section 10A it says:
"If you have a spouse or civil partner listed in section 2 of this application form who is applying at the same time as you, please provide documentary evidence of cohabitation since you were last granted leave (up to a maximum of two years). Evidence provided should cover the whole period and be in the form of official letters or documents, addressed to yourself and your spouse."

Now I leave it to you to interpret may be my language is not good enough.
I told you.. you are seeing what is written on form and in guide but you don't know that law. Go and read full HSMP JR ruling then you will come to know what I am saying.
About the copy and paste you have done here... that the reason for whole problem.. even in UKBA there are guy who do copy and paste from old form to new form. ... If you can get hold of a form prior to 19th May 2011. Check the difference between form we have now and then.
Since then there has been no ruling or any change but you will see many changes in form....
Because there are many incorrect things (or say ambiguous things )..UKBA has corrected few and made it more clear but still some are left.

I con't force any one to apply or don;t apply... I have got ILR in the same category and my spouse who was out of UK for more than 180 days in year before we applied for ILR.

mk357
Member of Standing
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:54 pm

Post by mk357 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:13 pm

I hope that everyone gets ILR like you did including myself and without the cohabitation proof. But as long as it is there on the form, you have either to tick it or leave it blank and if the caseworker asks for it, may be due to his ignorance, then one can refer to the JR Policy. But my point is still valid it would depend on the caseworker or his senior who may or may not be aware or willing to accept ones argument. I agree it could be a mistake but as long as its there, we should have something with us just in case. And I am not saying this to frighten anyone but to make sure that everyone is well prepared. I hope it make sense now.

rajesh_kumar01
Member
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:15 pm
Location: Excel 2003

Post by rajesh_kumar01 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:38 pm

mk357 wrote:I hope that everyone gets ILR like you did including myself and without the cohabitation proof. But as long as it is there on the form, you have either to tick it or leave it blank and if the caseworker asks for it, may be due to his ignorance, then one can refer to the JR Policy. But my point is still valid it would depend on the caseworker or his senior who may or may not be aware or willing to accept ones argument. I agree it could be a mistake but as long as its there, we should have something with us just in case. And I am not saying this to frighten anyone but to make sure that everyone is well prepared. I hope it make sense now.
if you are not sure then take the printout of HSMP JR........

fora
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Post by fora » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:01 pm

The High Court held that 'the terms of the scheme, properly interpreted in context and read with the guidance and the rules, contain a clear representation, made by [the Home Secretary], that once a migrant had embarked on the scheme he would enjoy the benefits of the scheme according to the terms prevailing at the date he joined.' The High Court held that the terms of the original scheme should be honoured and that there was no good reason why those already on the scheme should not enjoy the benefits of it as originally offered to them. The generality of this reasoning seems to be as applicable to the April 2006 changes as to those made in November 2006
Where did you see the condition of 2 years of cohabitation in the old HSMP requirements?
I called HO today, the lady was confused when I explained her the issue and asked me to call tmrw. I will.
Probably that's why is it is specially mentioned in Par27 HSMP policy:"the dependant follows the main applicant without mentioning2 years" and we are fussing about nothing confusing each other and HO staff(whose immigration knowledge leaves a lot to be desired)

mk357
Member of Standing
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:54 pm

Post by mk357 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:00 pm

fora wrote:The High Court held that 'the terms of the scheme, properly interpreted in context and read with the guidance and the rules, contain a clear representation, made by [the Home Secretary], that once a migrant had embarked on the scheme he would enjoy the benefits of the scheme according to the terms prevailing at the date he joined.' The High Court held that the terms of the original scheme should be honoured and that there was no good reason why those already on the scheme should not enjoy the benefits of it as originally offered to them. The generality of this reasoning seems to be as applicable to the April 2006 changes as to those made in November 2006
Where did you see the condition of 2 years of cohabitation in the old HSMP requirements?
I called HO today, the lady was confused when I explained her the issue and asked me to call tmrw. I will.
Probably that's why is it is specially mentioned in Par27 HSMP policy:"the dependant follows the main applicant without mentioning2 years" and we are fussing about nothing confusing each other and HO staff(whose immigration knowledge leaves a lot to be desired)
Section 10A SET(O) Form. I agree with you totally, its just the confusion that has been created by the post April 2011 SE(O) Form and we should be prepared either way.

fora
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Post by fora » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:05 pm

I am gonna attach to this form a short and strong covering letter explaining why I have the right to include my hsbnd. I will take some extracts from High Court's final decision,Paragraph 27 and initial requiremants for HSMP migrants. And then I ask them the same question-"Could you find the requirements of 2 years cohabitation for spouses?
But this is my decision

Son_of_Soil
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Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:20 am

Post by Son_of_Soil » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:27 am

Where can i find copy of the immigration rules which were in place in 2006?

Thanks
fora wrote:I am gonna attach to this form a short and strong covering letter explaining why I have the right to include my hsbnd. I will take some extracts from High Court's final decision,Paragraph 27 and initial requiremants for HSMP migrants. And then I ask them the same question-"Could you find the requirements of 2 years cohabitation for spouses?
But this is my decision

khalidmirza
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Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:10 am

Post by khalidmirza » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:18 am

Son_of_Soil wrote:Where can i find copy of the immigration rules which were in place in 2006?

Thanks
fora wrote:I am gonna attach to this form a short and strong covering letter explaining why I have the right to include my hsbnd. I will take some extracts from High Court's final decision,Paragraph 27 and initial requiremants for HSMP migrants. And then I ask them the same question-"Could you find the requirements of 2 years cohabitation for spouses?
But this is my decision
I am not sure if it is available on net.May be try in a Library. However changes in rules (generally follows the statements of changes) are avaiable on following link
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ofchanges/

fora
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Post by fora » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:20 pm


geriatrix
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Location: does it matter?

Post by geriatrix » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:30 pm

Son_of_Soil wrote:Where can i find copy of the immigration rules which were in place in 2006?
You don't need a copy - the relevant rules still exist 135G and 196D.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

San_798
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:58 pm

Please respond

Post by San_798 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:09 pm

HI,

I am applying foe ILR in two weeks time and I am enclosing follwing documents. I am applying HSMP JR pre nov 2006.

I am enclosing following documents with SET(0) application to verify above.
1) Passport of main applicant()
2) Passport of dependent ()
3) Filled Set(0) Form
4) 1 Year Payslip
5) Five P60, one P45, Letter from HMRC confirming my tax.
6) Employment letter (contract letter of my last two companies including existing comapny)
7) Letter from employer confirming business trip.
8. Original HSMP letter issue on July 2006 and Sep 2008 by UKBA.
9) Bank statement – 1 Year
10) Utility Bill – new address
11) Utility bill of Old address
12) Tenancy Agreement- Existing and Previous one.
13) Marriage certificate (co-habitation proof)
14) Dependent Bank statement (covering 2 year)
15) Dependent Credit card statement ( 2 year)
16) Dependent Credit card statement( 2 year)
17) Dependent Utility Bill
17 HSMP JR pre Nov 2006 Policy documents
19)

My question to all of you is my absence is 190 days and i am really worried about this but most of absence were paid holiday.

Please advise me accordingly

Regards
Sanuels

khalidmirza
Member of Standing
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:10 am

Re: Please respond

Post by khalidmirza » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:08 pm

San_798 wrote:HI,

I am applying foe ILR in two weeks time and I am enclosing follwing documents. I am applying HSMP JR pre nov 2006.

I am enclosing following documents with SET(0) application to verify above.
1) Passport of main applicant()
2) Passport of dependent ()
3) Filled Set(0) Form
4) 1 Year Payslip
5) Five P60, one P45, Letter from HMRC confirming my tax.
6) Employment letter (contract letter of my last two companies including existing comapny)
7) Letter from employer confirming business trip.
8. Original HSMP letter issue on July 2006 and Sep 2008 by UKBA.
9) Bank statement – 1 Year
10) Utility Bill – new address
11) Utility bill of Old address
12) Tenancy Agreement- Existing and Previous one.
13) Marriage certificate (co-habitation proof)
14) Dependent Bank statement (covering 2 year)
15) Dependent Credit card statement ( 2 year)
16) Dependent Credit card statement( 2 year)
17) Dependent Utility Bill
17 HSMP JR pre Nov 2006 Policy documents
19)

My question to all of you is my absence is 190 days and i am really worried about this but most of absence were paid holiday.

Please advise me accordingly

Regards
Sanuels
More documents you submit, more questions will arise. may i suggest following should suffice
1 3 months pay slips (or max 6 months)
2 3 or 6 months bank statement
3 All P 60
4 Employment Letter
5 3 different sources of cohabitation proof like medical card, joint ban statement, driving lic, utility bills etc
6 hsmp letters both
7 concentrate on 190 days issue and get relevant documents

San_798
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:58 pm

Plesae response

Post by San_798 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:14 pm

Hi Khalid,

I am taking you suggestion on borad.
But can you please elaborate your last point about concentrating 190 days absence and get the relevant paper.

I dont have any letter except the payslip for those period.
I was also out of country for almost a month to got married, is this period they allow me on compensate ground.


Please reply me your thought.

Regards
Sanuels.

khalidmirza
Member of Standing
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:10 am

Re: Plesae response

Post by khalidmirza » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:23 am

San_798 wrote:Hi Khalid,

I am taking you suggestion on borad.
But can you please elaborate your last point about concentrating 190 days absence and get the relevant paper.

I dont have any letter except the payslip for those period.
I was also out of country for almost a month to got married, is this period they allow me on compensate ground.


Please reply me your thought.

Regards
Sanuels.
please first double check that you have excluded days of travel and arrival.could there be element of business related absence supported by employer letter. marriage in my opinion is not compassionate grounds. sickness /death/accident/ etc are compassionate grounds. i am not sure paid holidays are considered absence or not as wording in annex b of settlement chapter "apart from" is not clear to me.

San_798
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:58 pm

Please respond

Post by San_798 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:27 am

Hi Khalid,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

Can also please see the below covering letter I wil include , please let me if you want me to add anything else.



To,
The Case Worker,
PEO
Lunar House,
40 Wellesley Road,
Croydon
CR9 2BY

Sub: Applying for ILR under HSMP JR Policy pre Nov 2006

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to confirm to you that, I am here to apply for ILR under HSMP JR Pre Nov 2006 today.
I qualify to apply for ILR on 1 Jul 2011 after completing continuous five year in UK.
I am applying for ILR for me and one dependent (spouse). My spouse has been in UK since April 2007. I am currently in the UK on a Tier 1 which was extended in Sep 2006 from HSMP. I intend to make the UK my main home and am currently employed on a full time basis by XX as XXXX. I have been economically active in last five year.




I am enclosing following documents with SET(0) application to verify above.


Thanks

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