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ILR and court convictions urgent help!!!

Please use this section of the board for queries about Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). However please use the EEA-route section for queries about the EEA-route equivalent of Permanent Residence (PR).


This section is relevant irrespective of whether current status is Tiered or Non-Tiered.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

yanik85
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ILR and court convictions urgent help!!!

Post by yanik85 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:03 pm

Dear members,
Thank you for taking time to read through my post and for sharing similar experiences and advising me on what to do since i feel like im already going through depression.

My Case
I have applied for Set(m) on the 19/06/13 through post and didnt received an akno letter
Money taken from my account on the 24/06/13 and surprisingly i received my biometrics letter on the 2/07/13 dated 28/06/13 biometrics not yet taken.
Background
I am married to a british citizen and i was given 2years BRP in 2011 and my brp expired yoday so i sent my application for ILR
My problem is the following... in december 2012 i went to court for a drink driving case where i pleaded not guilty reason being that i was fleing an attack from a group of individuals after a night out and although police witnessed this on Cctv they stoped me 600 meters from the incident and were quick to breathelized me and ship me to the police station without giving me the chance to explain anything.
In court the judges found that there were actually evidence of serious attacks and that i was not intending to drink drive but was fleeing from serious harm.
But he also considered that i had other options like shout for help etc so they said they will not ban me but gave me a fine 150 and 10points to "teach me a lesson" they never asked for my driving license and i went home and im paying the fine normally.
and surprisingly dvla is reporting my license to be clean
When i filed my ILR form i ticked the box NO to the question do you have any criminal conviction because at the time i didnt genuinely understand that a fine from court would be classified as such and naively i didnt do proper checks in regards to my application for settlement.
The fact that they sent me my biometrics letter so quickly triggered a deep paranoia in me. so after further researchs i found out that i can be done for deception and that my fine is a mandatory refusal
Guys i dont sleep no more and i have lost appetite and dont know what to do :-(
I have called a few lawyers and got conflicting responses. some are saying i should write a letter to the home office to inform them ASAP before i take my biometrics since they will check my finger prints against police records..... others are saying to wait and see until they make a decision since i can make matters worse by sending a letter. and said if refusal i should just appeal so i should keep quiet wait and see ......and some are saying that they have already found a grounf for refusal thats why i got my biometrics letter so quick and they just want to get my biometrics so they can send me a refusal letter....

Please tell me what is what? also they all are keen to charge me a fee to represent me and money is not easy for me after spending so much just to apply.

Please can anyone advise me on what to do? if i send a letter explaining the circumstances of my offence and apoligize for not mentioning it would that make a difference? is it possible for the case worker to grant me ILR on discretionary basis?

please HELP!! If anyone has been in similiar situation please can you share your experience?

you might be saving a genuine applicant life please do not hesitate to respond would be very much appreciated...
Sorry for the long post and God bless you all....

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Amber
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Post by Amber » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:13 pm

The issue is how the immigration rules are interpreted. The rules state that a non-custodial sentence shall be a general grounds for refusal for 24 months. However, it is unclear whether the non-custodial sentence needs to be recorded on your criminal record and indeed, what amounts to a criminal record. I have requested clarification but I am still awaiting a response for the criminality team.

If it is the case that the non-custodial conviction need not have to be recorded on any particular record, namely, the PNC then any non-custodial sentence would be a general grounds for refusal for a 24 month period. If it is not the case, then if the non-custodial sentence is not recorded on the PNC it will not be a general grounds for refusal.

However, in your case you have not only not declared the conviction but you have arguably tried to deceive the UKBA which is actually more significant. Failing to declare a material fact (intending to deceive) can result in a citizenship ban (10 years), revocation of your ILR or even criminal prosecution.

What you should have done is got legal advice and either declared and applied on set(m) or simply extended flr(m) until the 24 months period had lapsed.

Indeed, you should write to the UKBA and declare the conviction and/or seriously consider varying your set(m) to flr(m).
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Graceofgod
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Re: ILR and court convictions urgent help!!!

Post by Graceofgod » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:21 pm

yanik85 wrote:Dear members,
Thank you for taking time to read through my post and for sharing similar experiences and advising me on what to do since i feel like im already going through depression.

My Case
I have applied for Set(m) on the 19/06/13 through post and didnt received an akno letter
Money taken from my account on the 24/06/13 and surprisingly i received my biometrics letter on the 2/07/13 dated 28/06/13 biometrics not yet taken.
Background
I am married to a british citizen and i was given 2years BRP in 2011 and my brp expired yoday so i sent my application for ILR
My problem is the following... in december 2012 i went to court for a drink driving case where i pleaded not guilty reason being that i was fleing an attack from a group of individuals after a night out and although police witnessed this on Cctv they stoped me 600 meters from the incident and were quick to breathelized me and ship me to the police station without giving me the chance to explain anything.
In court the judges found that there were actually evidence of serious attacks and that i was not intending to drink drive but was fleeing from serious harm.
But he also considered that i had other options like shout for help etc so they said they will not ban me but gave me a fine 150 and 10points to "teach me a lesson" they never asked for my driving license and i went home and im paying the fine normally.
and surprisingly dvla is reporting my license to be clean
When i filed my ILR form i ticked the box NO to the question do you have any criminal conviction because at the time i didnt genuinely understand that a fine from court would be classified as such and naively i didnt do proper checks in regards to my application for settlement.
The fact that they sent me my biometrics letter so quickly triggered a deep paranoia in me. so after further researchs i found out that i can be done for deception and that my fine is a mandatory refusal
Guys i dont sleep no more and i have lost appetite and dont know what to do :-(
I have called a few lawyers and got conflicting responses. some are saying i should write a letter to the home office to inform them ASAP before i take my biometrics since they will check my finger prints against police records..... others are saying to wait and see until they make a decision since i can make matters worse by sending a letter. and said if refusal i should just appeal so i should keep quiet wait and see ......and some are saying that they have already found a grounf for refusal thats why i got my biometrics letter so quick and they just want to get my biometrics so they can send me a refusal letter....

Please tell me what is what? also they all are keen to charge me a fee to represent me and money is not easy for me after spending so much just to apply.

Please can anyone advise me on what to do? if i send a letter explaining the circumstances of my offence and apoligize for not mentioning it would that make a difference? is it possible for the case worker to grant me ILR on discretionary basis?

please HELP!! If anyone has been in similiar situation please can you share your experience?

you might be saving a genuine applicant life please do not hesitate to respond would be very much appreciated...
Sorry for the long post and God bless you all....
Hi,
Your application will not be looked at until the bio-metrics are completed. In my opinion it is better to draft a covering letter explaining your lack of understanding with regards to the court fine and send that along with the change of circumstances form.
By doing that you will not be penalised for deception.
Homeoffice would find out everything through their checks whether you disclose in your application or not, divulging the information is not a good option.
Information or Advice provided by me is general in nature and based on my own limited expertise hence shouldn't be used as a substitute for professional advice where necessary.

yanik85
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:16 pm

Post by yanik85 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:33 pm

Thank you for the quick responses and really much appreciated.
To Amber.
Although it might come accross as trying to deceive my conviction i can assure you that it was pure ignorance of what is what and i am planning to send a letter to the the UKBA on monday specia delivery so they can add this information to my applicafion.
The Setm form also provides that you can inform the UKBA of any information that can be used for your application so i am hoping and praying that it is not too late and that they will see that i am trying to come clean and declare evrything i know.
But thank you so much for your advise it means the world to me and my family right now.

yanik85
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Post by yanik85 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:36 pm

where can i get the change of circumstances form? thanks.

Graceofgod
Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:42 pm

hi

Post by Graceofgod » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:41 pm

yanik85 wrote:where can i get the change of circumstances form? thanks.
I think this will serve the purpose.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... stanc2.pdf
Information or Advice provided by me is general in nature and based on my own limited expertise hence shouldn't be used as a substitute for professional advice where necessary.

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Amber
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Post by Amber » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:45 pm

I did not implying that you were trying to deceive but that is what the UKBA would likely think. In criminal law..... ignorance is no defence, though, it may be in civil.
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yanik85
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:16 pm

Post by yanik85 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:52 pm

thank you for the link. Just so that i dont get confused again is tier1 visa same as spouse visa? because the form says it should be used for tier1 visa and my visa is spouse? thank you for your support.

yanik85
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Post by yanik85 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:55 pm

ok Amber this is a very important clarification and i will send the cover letter ASAP and hopefully they will attach it to my application. Thank you so much.

yanik85
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Post by yanik85 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:59 pm

Could anybody else supply any sort of guidance regarding my post? has anyone been granted ILR with a conviction unspent i would imagine... what is most likely to be the outcome of my case? and if refused leave could i still apply for FLR? finaly if further leave is granted how long should i wait before i can apply for ILR? Thanks all for your contribution....

JohnM
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:42 pm

Post by JohnM » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:14 am

A lot of people got ILRs with fines for driving offences.

Sushdmehta who works on this forum for much longer than Amber, clearly says that it depends on criminal record:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=120784

I don't think you have criminal record. Not only tell them you have this incident but also explain it in short, like here. So they would see that it was not something serious. Don't worry too much. Just focus and everything should be fine. You have not done biometrics yet, so they should receive your update in time. Send it by recorded delivery. I would hire solicitor if I were you, just for additional help. It's not free but sometimes it is better to pay.
Disclaimer: I am not immigration solicitor. Don't treat my advice as a substitute for legal opinion.

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Amber
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Post by Amber » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:15 am

I am awaiting confirmation! It doesn't matter how long someone has been a member here, what matters is the interpretation that is being used. From experiences posted on here, it appears there is no consensus as to how they are proceeding, with non-custodial convictions.
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JohnM
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Post by JohnM » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:21 am

I understood everything. In case you don't realise it, I don't need your confirmation because I already have it here:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=120784

It was even made a sticky on the forum, so people would not worry too much.
Disclaimer: I am not immigration solicitor. Don't treat my advice as a substitute for legal opinion.

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Amber
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Post by Amber » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:24 am

JohnM wrote:I understood everything. In case you don't realise it, I don't need your confirmation because I already have it here:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=120784

It was even made a sticky on the forum, so people would not worry too much.
Unfortunately that is not confirmation, just the interpretation by one member of this forum.
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Click here to send me a PM regarding an offensive post. Do NOT PM me for immigration advice.

yanik85
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Post by yanik85 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:31 pm

your updates are very much appreciated and i am planning to send a letter by tomorrow latest. and then do my biometrics. i feel a bit better now i have not had much to eat since tuesday and this is affecting my wife too who is just pregnant.
just in case they reject my application what would be my options since my stay has expired yesterday would i be deported? thanks for your continuous support it makes a big difference

yanik85
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Post by yanik85 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:36 pm

and just to clarify that my court fine was not a FPN but i was fined after a long 3hours hearing with witnesses and stuffs so i would imagine this is different than a FPN issued by court well i dont know just asking. can anyone comment on that? the law can sometimes be so complicated for us commoners and we often get into unfair trouble by now understanding it. thanks guys....

yanik85
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Post by yanik85 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:26 am

Hello Dear Member,

I hired a lawyer yesterday and he will write a representation to the home office attach it along with my covering letter.
I have applied for my PNC record last Saturday just to see what appears on there and the lawyer said we should wait till the results come if it's clean I shouldn't worry too much. So for now I will not do my biometrics since I have till the 19th to submit them so I am hoping my PNC record comes before.....

If I don't have the report by next wed I will send the representation to UKBA and do my biometrics on the Friday so they should receive my bio and the letter the same day.
Please see my previous questions...could anyone share some light in regards to all this?
Thank you for your help....

greenvilla
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Post by greenvilla » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Can you plz tell us further what happened after?
Coz lot of people are in similar situation so you could help them by letting them know of ur outcome?
Thnxx

yanik85
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Post by yanik85 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:33 pm

Hey... I havent heard anything from them yet it's been over 5months now they only sent the biometrics letter and a letter to my lawyer in october to say they are still considering my application :-(
It has been an horrible wait for me and my wife who is 5months pregnant and she is as stressed as me and believe me or not we don't know if we are going or coming...
I called them twice and the reply was that i have to wait....
So I am just waiting and praying.....

fbutt50
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Post by fbutt50 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:59 am

hi

Thanks for reply and giving update as i am going to be in the similar sort of situation in future coz of this disgusting fine matter so plz help me with giving me your updates so it could help me to resolve my issue as well.

my problem: fine not disclosed (due to lack of understanding of question) in the previous visa extensions.

ILR due in next year what to do about the disclosure of fine?

plz help and suggest honest advise!

Thnx

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