Payroll without accountant

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:34 am

Thanks Marcnath.

I have another odd question, with the Pre- ILR application under Tier 1 Entp. do we need to submit an updated set of accounts, reason I ask this is that my annual account were submitted in Nov 2020, and the next lot will be due in Nov 2021, however, my application for ILR will be end April 2021, meaning I'd have to prepare a set of accounts that aren't legally due till Nov 2021, but will have a draft set of accounts, would this be required or can we just use the official ones submitted in Nov 2020?
Have you come across this sort of a situation before?

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:48 pm

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:34 am
Thanks Marcnath.

I have another odd question, with the Pre- ILR application under Tier 1 Entp. do we need to submit an updated set of accounts, reason I ask this is that my annual account were submitted in Nov 2020, and the next lot will be due in Nov 2021, however, my application for ILR will be end April 2021, meaning I'd have to prepare a set of accounts that aren't legally due till Nov 2021, but will have a draft set of accounts, would this be required or can we just use the official ones submitted in Nov 2020?
Have you come across this sort of a situation before?

There is no need to submit accounts for ILR

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:51 pm

Thanks Marcnath.

Right I have another query which is in connection to one I had posted a few months ago when my staff member asked for her holidays. My worry is that she is contracted to 28 hours per week and another staff member makes the shortfall of 7 hours to make one job of 30 hours plus for the visa rules. Now, this 28 hours member of staff has gone on holiday with a combination of paid and unpaid holiday days as she was going home to Argentina so wanted more time off than her accrued holiday allowance. My accountant has said that her "payslip shows her Unpaid Leave, which is deducted from her monthly salary", will this be an issue for the HO for claiming points on the job role?
Panicking now!

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:01 pm

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:51 pm
Thanks Marcnath.

Right I have another query which is in connection to one I had posted a few months ago when my staff member asked for her holidays. My worry is that she is contracted to 28 hours per week and another staff member makes the shortfall of 7 hours to make one job of 30 hours plus for the visa rules. Now, this 28 hours member of staff has gone on holiday with a combination of paid and unpaid holiday days as she was going home to Argentina so wanted more time off than her accrued holiday allowance. My accountant has said that her "payslip shows her Unpaid Leave, which is deducted from her monthly salary", will this be an issue for the HO for claiming points on the job role?
Panicking now!

Unpaid leave falls into a grey area. Strictly reading the rules, you are only required to create a job of 30 hrs which follows the rules of minimum wage, etc. So, when a person is on unpaid leave, the job still remains created.
However, the evidence HO uses is to calculate hours worked by diving pay by hourly rate.
Normally this is not an issue because very few businesses hire exactly the right amount to meet the visa requirements. I had at least another two years worth of job creation over the three year period prior to my extension application.
But you have two options:
1. Safest - just hire additional to cover the unpaid leave
2. Go ahead with what you have, clearly stating in your cover letter that the job still remains created during the time your employee is on unpaid leave. In the job Table, you can even list that period separately with a zero hourly wage rate. Indicates to HO that you know the rules and you are likely to challenge it if you are refused purely because of the unpaid leave.

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:24 pm

Hi Marcnath,

Oh dear ok. The issue is that the payslips were for January ie this month which is when the staff member is on holiday. So in the case of the covering the shortfall of hours in the shop whilst she is away I have been covering her shifts so work hasn't suffered. I didn't think of hiring someone else as she was meant to be back at work next week and with the lockdown etc it seemed futile to do that. However with the constant changes, she is now going to be stuck in Argentina till end of Feb so I now have to get the other staff member on 7 hours per week to switch over to 32 hours ( I do 32 hours per staff to be on the safe side to cover incase some months have a shortfall as I find the HO calculation slightly strange) so for February I know what to do but the issue is for January as explained above, and I can't go back and amend the hours on the payslips as my accountants won't do that. Would HO not be aware in general UK employment law that there is paid holiday allowance and the option for taking extra days if needed be but be unpaid? I'll do the cover letter for sure but just adds another complication. Ahh! Worried now.

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:06 am

I forgot to clarify I am Pre- ILR as opposed to extension, making this whole issue even more stressful, I have to apply in May 2021. With regards to your 2nd option as I can't go back and manipulate the information, I don't understand what you mean by "In the job Table, you can even list that period separately with a zero hourly wage rate".? how would I do this as none of my staff is employed on 0 hours.

Also to clarify that the job is still very much there, it is split in terms of hours between two members of staff, one on 28 hours and the other on 7 hours per week, totalling 35 hours per week (making the one job), with a wage difference of .10p/ per hour between the two workers. So whilst 28 hours per week is away, 7 hours per week has been carrying on with his normal rota, and is holding the fort with me stepping in to provide cover and help when he needs it- as a coffee / retail store due to the lock down it is very quiet so it's manageable. Does that make a bit more sense? Or it's still a grey area and will be penalised in a worst case scenario?

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:46 pm

Hi Marcnath,

I've been thinking about what you wrote, and I am trying to calculate how many hours of work my staff are missing on the unpaid leave option. If the requirements are one job at 30 hours, and it was split in this manner:
Staff A on 28 hours
Staff B on 7 hours
Total hours per week 35.

Staff A is on holiday with some of it unpaid, I attach her payslip to see the calculation, therefore how many hours am I out by to be able to claim for the 30 hours per week?

Just trying to see if one of my extra staff members who is on 0 hours can be used to cover the hours up as she's on a 0 hour contract if that makes sense.

Ps. I don't know how to attach the pdf to show you what I mean about Staff A payslip.

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:20 am

Hello,

So we have to submit a starter checklist for members of staff for the Pre-ILR application?

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:53 am

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:24 pm
Hi Marcnath,

Oh dear ok. The issue is that the payslips were for January ie this month which is when the staff member is on holiday. So in the case of the covering the shortfall of hours in the shop whilst she is away I have been covering her shifts so work hasn't suffered. I didn't think of hiring someone else as she was meant to be back at work next week and with the lockdown etc it seemed futile to do that. However with the constant changes, she is now going to be stuck in Argentina till end of Feb so I now have to get the other staff member on 7 hours per week to switch over to 32 hours ( I do 32 hours per staff to be on the safe side to cover incase some months have a shortfall as I find the HO calculation slightly strange) so for February I know what to do but the issue is for January as explained above, and I can't go back and amend the hours on the payslips as my accountants won't do that. Would HO not be aware in general UK employment law that there is paid holiday allowance and the option for taking extra days if needed be but be unpaid? I'll do the cover letter for sure but just adds another complication. Ahh! Worried now.

I hope you are aware that the employment does not need to be continuous. So, even of January has a shortfall, don't you have another extra month prior to your ILR application becoming due?

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:54 am

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:20 am
Hello,

So we have to submit a starter checklist for members of staff for the Pre-ILR application?

No

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:16 pm

Thanks for your replies Marcnath.
Got it regd started checklist.

For the continuous employment, I had employed stated 20th April 20- so to make it 12 months continuous I can only apply for my visa after 20th April 21 to make sure it's the 12 months, and visa expires 2nd May 2021, so my plan is to get the application in the window of 21st April 21 to 1st May 21 which cover my 12 months. I thought that's what continuous means, unfortunately I didn't hire anytime before Jan-March 20 and only hired in April 20 as the pandemic had kicked off and I just had no idea how to manage and what was going to happen to business and visas etc so held off for weeks until, I had no real choice but to hire the staff. I didn't have employees in 2019 when extension visa was issued as I had changed my business plan from an online to offline store so ended up spending 2019 renovating and creating the shop etc hence the gap.Does this make any sense? Or have I completely misunderstood the guidelines?

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:35 pm

Also I know you said unpaid leave is a grey area in the HO rules but what I am a bit confused about is in any British business ( non Entp 1) if a member of staff goes on leave for an extended period, more than their allowance for that period, no business would pay them and make them take it as unpaid leave, so I haven't done anything wrong in that sense so in a way there isn't a shortfall as she is still my employee just not currently working. Do you see what I mean or will it be simply seen as less hours due to the payslip calculations?
Will the HO only look at the staff who does 7 hours per week = 28 hours a month and so my shortfall will be 92 hours for January? Or are these calculations all wrong?

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:57 am

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:16 pm
Thanks for your replies Marcnath.
Got it regd started checklist.

For the continuous employment, I had employed stated 20th April 20- so to make it 12 months continuous I can only apply for my visa after 20th April 21 to make sure it's the 12 months, and visa expires 2nd May 2021, so my plan is to get the application in the window of 21st April 21 to 1st May 21 which cover my 12 months. I thought that's what continuous means, unfortunately I didn't hire anytime before Jan-March 20 and only hired in April 20 as the pandemic had kicked off and I just had no idea how to manage and what was going to happen to business and visas etc so held off for weeks until, I had no real choice but to hire the staff. I didn't have employees in 2019 when extension visa was issued as I had changed my business plan from an online to offline store so ended up spending 2019 renovating and creating the shop etc hence the gap.Does this make any sense? Or have I completely misunderstood the guidelines?

No, that is fine

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 am

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:35 pm
Also I know you said unpaid leave is a grey area in the HO rules but what I am a bit confused about is in any British business ( non Entp 1) if a member of staff goes on leave for an extended period, more than their allowance for that period, no business would pay them and make them take it as unpaid leave, so I haven't done anything wrong in that sense so in a way there isn't a shortfall as she is still my employee just not currently working. Do you see what I mean or will it be simply seen as less hours due to the payslip calculations?
Will the HO only look at the staff who does 7 hours per week = 28 hours a month and so my shortfall will be 92 hours for January? Or are these calculations all wrong?

As I have said before, it is not clear though my reading of the rules is that employees on no pay leave should still be counted. But I am not the decision maker.

But your logic of comparing it to any other business also makes no sense. There is nothing in those rules that is different from any other business - the business is not required to pay an employee for leave that is taken as unpaid. This route and visa has its own specific rules. The visa requirements are specific to you personally and does not apply to the business.
While I totally understand your case where the employee has taken a few days unpaid, you can imagine what will happen if HO relaxes that as a rule. There will be at least a few people who will hire employees and put them on unpaid leave for months - thereby making the governments objective of job creation irrelevant.

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:22 pm

Hi!

Thanks for you replies. I see what you mean about my logic but I guess at this stage all I can now do is explain in the cover letter what the situation is and hope for the best, given the Covid travel restrictions. Staff were very much employed but could not be paid as they had used up their holiday and I didn't think it was fair to keep paying them just because of the visa rules. Anyway we shall see. I will update the forum in the summer with the outcome, hoping for the best in any case.

Stay well and thanks for your help.

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:54 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:01 pm

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:51 pm
Thanks Marcnath.

Right I have another query which is in connection to one I had posted a few months ago when my staff member asked for her holidays. My worry is that she is contracted to 28 hours per week and another staff member makes the shortfall of 7 hours to make one job of 30 hours plus for the visa rules. Now, this 28 hours member of staff has gone on holiday with a combination of paid and unpaid holiday days as she was going home to Argentina so wanted more time off than her accrued holiday allowance. My accountant has said that her "payslip shows her Unpaid Leave, which is deducted from her monthly salary", will this be an issue for the HO for claiming points on the job role?
Panicking now!
Unpaid leave falls into a grey area. Strictly reading the rules, you are only required to create a job of 30 hrs which follows the rules of minimum wage, etc. So, when a person is on unpaid leave, the job still remains created.
However, the evidence HO uses is to calculate hours worked by diving pay by hourly rate.
Normally this is not an issue because very few businesses hire exactly the right amount to meet the visa requirements. I had at least another two years worth of job creation over the three year period prior to my extension application.
But you have two options:
1. Safest - just hire additional to cover the unpaid leave
2. Go ahead with what you have, clearly stating in your cover letter that the job still remains created during the time your employee is on unpaid leave. In the job Table, you can even list that period separately with a zero hourly wage rate. Indicates to HO that you know the rules and you are likely to challenge it if you are refused purely because of the unpaid leave.

Marcnath, for your point 2 suggestion, how exactly would you advise me to frame this and explain the 0 hourly wage rate?

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:20 pm

Hey all moderators,

Can someone please link me to a post I'd seen a while back about the list of documents submitted for an ILR application on Tier 1. I've tried to find it and I can't seem to see it at all, unless I am looking in the wrong category right now and should be in the ILR forum?

Thanks for your help!

zimba · Post by **zimba** » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:54 pm

indefinite-leave-to-remain/an-example-o ... 80745.html

Your whole post is related to ILR so it is now moved to the ILR subforum

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:53 pm

Hi all,

For the travel history part of the application to show you have not been away for more than 180 days per year, how should I do it? Literally create a table stating showing each country, journey and days away?
Is there a type of format you suggest?
Thank you

zimba · Post by **zimba** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:12 pm

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:53 pm
Hi all,

For the travel history part of the application to show you have not been away for more than 180 days per year, how should I do it? Literally create a table stating showing each country, journey and days away?
Is there a type of format you suggest?
Thank you

That is part of the online form anyway

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:12 pm

Anontier25 wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:53 pm
Hi all,

For the travel history part of the application to show you have not been away for more than 180 days per year, how should I do it? Literally create a table stating showing each country, journey and days away?
Is there a type of format you suggest?
Thank you

I am not familiar with the online form but I expect it is more or less similar to the paper one and will have the columns and rows to be filled it stating destination, departure date and arrival date.

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:57 am

Thanks.

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:37 pm

Has anyone applied for the ILR on tier 1 Entp route £50k in the last month? Interesting to see the timeline and the process for 2021? I only ask as looking through this ILR forum where my post has been moved to, there are very handy tips and guidelines from the moderators, but nothing so far for 2021 applicants.

Many thanks!

Anontier25 · Post by **Anontier25** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:10 am

@cullinan, when you applied for your ILR, did you submit a self assessment tax record? In my case I was on the company payroll as a director but I never had self employed or self assessment, my salary was basic as I was to take dividends, at the extension stage I didn't provide this but just had a panic now and wondering if at ILR stage I also had to be self -employed and do self assessment etc. Panic!

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