Tier 1 to ILR

Meesha · Post by **Meesha** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:47 pm

Hi tier11417,
I think she meant what i asked u earlier? Cut off date for salaries etc. As u said its 5th of every month for u so logically payslips should be generated on start of next month for last month's work. Like pay for december 2018 should show payment date to be made by 5th January 2019 and same goes for RTI FPS, If u will generate the last FPS (Dec 2018 in ur case); it will show end date of employees as 5th January 2019 so how could u use it on 31st December 2018 though technically u can if you were paying earlier to that?
However u can generate it in software earlier too like 24th december or any sooner but again it will not match ur cut off date. What day u were paying to ur employees? end of month like 28 or 29 of every month? or start of next month? What time u were paying to HMRC?
I know this as i had trouble with this at my extension time and i had to use software myself and print out dummy FPSs to be used for my extension though it contained real data which my accountant was not able to download.
I think i am close to explain it but Aman can explain better though as she has already got her ILR.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:57 pm

My FPS is generated at month end and the payment to employees is made on the last workinh day of every month. So this month the payment to employees will be made on the 31st Dec for the whole month of Dec.

I still do not get the cut off time though

As I am applying under the exception rule I can claim for 12 months immediately before the ILR date. I qualify exactly on the 31st Dec for my 12 months job creation if I count from 1st Jan 2018 - 31st Dec 2018.

However, my question remains, should i apply on the 31st so it could be counted back till 1st Jan OR apply on 1st Jan 2019 but then it will be counted back to 2nd Jan 2018 (1 day less)?

The guidance says 12 months immediately “before” the ILR date. Confused :/

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:05 pm

My December 2018 salary slips will say
Pay period Dec 2018
Pay date 31st Dec 2018

So basically from Jan - Dec 2018 the “pay date” is always the last working day of the month end and the “pay period” is that particular month.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:43 pm

Semantics..
the rules guidance caseworkers guidance no where states to the 365th day.
like you thought that a PAID for CAR was required whereas it’s advisory not a condition
Now for the serious part..
atleast 12 months immediately before date of application...
if ur applying on the 1st of the month what is the logical and possible info you can give.
A day here or there should not matter in my opinion.
Now if it was someone applying somewhere end of the month, let’s say 20th of January. If I was in that situation I would give 13 months info just to cover both end and beginning.
In case of job creation I’ve seen people get away with things like adding total number of monthly hours and not calculating week wise..
I understand your predicament and there are no absolutes with HO caseworkers.
The above my educated opinion.. if I was in ur place I wouldn’t be worried.
If it does bother you. Do as marcnath advised. Send in FPS and payslips of January later on so the caseworker had no excuse whatsoever.

Meesha · Post by **Meesha** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:46 pm

If i would be you, i would apply on 31st December regarding 12 months immediate note. And i personally believe applying on same day as job creation qualification wont harm the decision in ur favour. U will be safe to apply on 31st as u have fulfilled the criteria even if it was the same day.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:48 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:43 pm
Semantics..
the rules guidance caseworkers guidance no where states to the 365th day.
like you thought that a PAID for CAR was required whereas it’s advisory not a condition
Now for the serious part..
atleast 12 months immediately before date of application...
if ur applying on the 1st of the month what is the logical and possible info you can give.
A day here or there should not matter in my opinion.
Now if it was someone applying somewhere end of the month, let’s say 20th of January. If I was in that situation I would give 13 months info just to cover both end and beginning.
In case of job creation I’ve seen people get away with things like adding total number of monthly hours and not calculating week wise..
I understand your predicament and there are no absolutes with HO caseworkers.
The above my educated opinion.. if I was in ur place I wouldn’t be worried.
If it does bother you. Do as marcnath advised. Send in FPS and payslips of January later on so the caseworker had no excuse whatsoever.

Thank you for your valuable advice.

Marcnath gave his opinion that is better if I apply on the 31st.

What do you think?

Should I apply on 31st or 1st Jan given my situation as stated above?

Many thanks

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:49 pm

Meesha wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:46 pm
If i would be you, i would apply on 31st December regarding 12 months immediate note. And i personally believe applying on same day as job creation qualification wont harm the decision in ur favour. U will be safe to apply on 31st as u have fulfilled the criteria even if it was the same day.

Thank you Meesha for your opinion. Seems like its inclined more towards applying on the 31st as Marcnath said the same.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:50 pm

Tier 11417... applying on the 1st with those docs.. you can’t get more immediate than that!!!

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:55 pm

Anyways you do what your gut feeling tells you! Whether it’s 31st or 1st.. it’ll be ok!

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:57 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:50 pm
Tier 11417... applying on the 1st with those docs.. you can’t get more immediate than that!!!

You are missing the point here. You gave an example above that if someone applies on the 15th Jan.

Lets say if I apply on the 15th Jan 2019 then I can only go back 12 months till the 16th January 2018. (12 months cz I am under the exception new rule) and then I would need the FPS for Jan 2019.

I am sorry for being repetetive/annoying but just trying to be sure of the date as my job creation will be counted 12 months immediately before the date of ILR.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:58 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:55 pm
Anyways you do what your gut feeling tells you! Whether it’s 31st or 1st.. it’ll be ok!

Thank you

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:30 pm

tier11417 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:57 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:50 pm
Tier 11417... applying on the 1st with those docs.. you can’t get more immediate than that!!!
You are missing the point here. You gave an example above that if someone applies on the 15th Jan.

Lets say if I apply on the 15th Jan 2019 then I can only go back 12 months till the 16th January 2018. (12 months cz I am under the exception new rule) and then I would need the FPS for Jan 2019.

I am sorry for being repetetive/annoying but just trying to be sure of the date as my job creation will be counted 12 months immediately before the date of ILR.

Ur on the brink!
This is ur educated opinion! And it is correct! One needs definite parameters which the rules or the guidance don’t define.. we are discussing what the statement infers..
the evidence is the FPS RTI and payslip. When is it generated? We have seen people sending in future FPS n payslips.. when technically the assessment should be till the date of application.. or that is what is inferred.
How did you intellectualise 16 jan to 15 jan? You took the nearest month. But that’s not what is defined.. it’s an educated guess.
I’m balancing my opinion against the generation dates advised by HMRC.
My point is.. when there is nothing definite it’s on ur side..I realise you don’t want to have ur time wasted in explaining urself later..
Again I wouldn’t be worried where you are concerned but at the end of the day I’m not taking responsibility of what you do eventually.
I’m simply discussing if I was in ur position what I would have considered. What the caseworker considers is only upto them..

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 pm

Meesha wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:47 pm
Hi tier11417,
I think she meant what i asked u earlier? Cut off date for salaries etc. As u said its 5th of every month for u so logically payslips should be generated on start of next month for last month's work. Like pay for december 2018 should show payment date to be made by 5th January 2019 and same goes for RTI FPS, If u will generate the last FPS (Dec 2018 in ur case); it will show end date of employees as 5th January 2019 so how could u use it on 31st December 2018 though technically u can if you were paying earlier to that?
However u can generate it in software earlier too like 24th december or any sooner but again it will not match ur cut off date. What day u were paying to ur employees? end of month like 28 or 29 of every month? or start of next month? What time u were paying to HMRC?
I know this as i had trouble with this at my extension time and i had to use software myself and print out dummy FPSs to be used for my extension though it contained real data which my accountant was not able to download.
I think i am close to explain it but Aman can explain better though as she has already got her ILR.

On a lighter note! How did you figure I was a woman. Was it my name that gave it away?

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:38 pm

I was wondering the same

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:40 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:30 pm

tier11417 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:57 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:50 pm
Tier 11417... applying on the 1st with those docs.. you can’t get more immediate than that!!!
You are missing the point here. You gave an example above that if someone applies on the 15th Jan.

Lets say if I apply on the 15th Jan 2019 then I can only go back 12 months till the 16th January 2018. (12 months cz I am under the exception new rule) and then I would need the FPS for Jan 2019.

I am sorry for being repetetive/annoying but just trying to be sure of the date as my job creation will be counted 12 months immediately before the date of ILR.
Ur on the brink!
This is ur educated opinion! And it is correct! One needs definite parameters which the rules or the guidance don’t define.. we are discussing what the statement infers..
the evidence is the FPS RTI and payslip. When is it generated? We have seen people sending in future FPS n payslips.. when technically the assessment should be till the date of application.. or that is what is inferred.
How did you intellectualise 16 jan to 15 jan? You took the nearest month. But that’s not what is defined.. it’s an educated guess.
I’m balancing my opinion against the generation dates advised by HMRC.
My point is.. when there is nothing definite it’s on ur side..I realise you don’t want to have ur time wasted in explaining urself later..
Again I wouldn’t be worried where you are concerned but at the end of the day I’m not taking responsibility of what you do eventually.
I’m simply discussing if I was in ur position what I would have considered. What the caseworker considers is only upto them..

Thanks for your detailed reply. I know no one can take responsibility for anyone.

But I think as long as I am sending 12 months FPS Jan - Dec 2018 and if I apply on the 31st Dec the immediate 12 months will go back till 1st Jan.

Also the rules say that the job existed at least for 12 months so if there is no leave date on the FPS for Dec then its obvious the job/employee continued on/after 31st.

Thats my educated guess.

Meesha · Post by **Meesha** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:46 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 pm

Meesha wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:47 pm
Hi tier11417,
I think she meant what i asked u earlier? Cut off date for salaries etc. As u said its 5th of every month for u so logically payslips should be generated on start of next month for last month's work. Like pay for december 2018 should show payment date to be made by 5th January 2019 and same goes for RTI FPS, If u will generate the last FPS (Dec 2018 in ur case); it will show end date of employees as 5th January 2019 so how could u use it on 31st December 2018 though technically u can if you were paying earlier to that?
However u can generate it in software earlier too like 24th december or any sooner but again it will not match ur cut off date. What day u were paying to ur employees? end of month like 28 or 29 of every month? or start of next month? What time u were paying to HMRC?
I know this as i had trouble with this at my extension time and i had to use software myself and print out dummy FPSs to be used for my extension though it contained real data which my accountant was not able to download.
I think i am close to explain it but Aman can explain better though as she has already got her ILR.
On a lighter note! How did you figure I was a woman. Was it my name that gave it away?

Sorry for my wrong guess. One of my colleague is called Aman and she is a woman.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:51 pm

Interestingly the leave date is on the FPS.. or atleast my FPS did show it. But it doesn’t matter.. the employee can be on the payroll without leaving or being paid..
Is ur 12 month employee gonna be continuing into January?
Does the online form require an end date for an employee that is continuing?

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:57 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:51 pm
Interestingly the leave date is on the FPS.. or atleast my FPS did show it. But it doesn’t matter.. the employee can be on the payroll without leaving or being paid..
Is ur 12 month employee gonna be continuing into January?
Does the online form require an end date for an employee that is continuing?

Yes the employee will be continuing.

No the online form online asks for the start date. And then says is the employee still working in the job. Yes or No?

If you say yes then thats it.

If you say No(meaning if someone already left in previous months), it asks what is the employee end date. But it says this is (optional to fill)

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:00 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:51 pm
Interestingly the leave date is on the FPS.. or atleast my FPS did show it. But it doesn’t matter.. the employee can be on the payroll without leaving or being paid..
Is ur 12 month employee gonna be continuing into January?
Does the online form require an end date for an employee that is continuing?

My FPS also shows leave dates

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:05 pm

Cool.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:11 pm

I would still request Zimba if he can be kind enough to give his piece of opinion on the above matter please

QSDanik · Post by **QSDanik** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:48 pm

Hello Seniors
I am applying for ILR in Oct 2019 5 year Route.
I want to make sure that I can use 2 part time eployee to make one full time employee?
for 2 Part time emplyees should it be for full one year without gap ?

2nd Job my full time emplyee have left job so I am looking for another one for further 9 months. I think gap between this job is accpeted ?
your guidance will be higly appriciated.
Thank you
Regards
QSDanik

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:52 pm

QSDanik wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:48 pm
Hello Seniors
I am applying for ILR in Oct 2019 5 year Route.
I want to make sure that I can use 2 part time eployee to make one full time employee?
for 2 Part time emplyees should it be for full one year without gap ?

2nd Job my full time emplyee have left job so I am looking for another one for further 9 months. I think gap between this job is accpeted ?
your guidance will be higly appriciated.
Thank you
Regards
QSDanik

Please stick to your own thread and don't post your question in other people's posts

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:54 am

Dear Aman, Meesha, Marcnath,

Dont want to be annoying but

After some brainstorming:

Lets say I apply on 1st Jan 2019

The guidance says:
The jobs must have existed for at least 12 months during your most recent grant of leave or, where that leave was granted less than 12 months ago, for at least the 12 months immediately before the date of your current application.

It says immediately “before” 1st Jan 2019. I think in this case the end day will be considered 31st Dec 2018 and I will have full 12 months “before” this date 1st Dec 2018 - 31st Dec 2018.

Had the statement be:
12 months immediately “from” the date of your current application.

If I apply on 1st Jan 2019 then it will go back to 2nd Jan 2018 incase it said “from”

I think I am safer applying on 1st Jan 2019 and immediately “before” that will be 1st Jan - 31st Dec 2018.

Thanks

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:08 am

Type error: 1st Jan 2018 - 31st Dec 2018**

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