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Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Please use this section of the board for queries about Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). However please use the EEA-route section for queries about the EEA-route equivalent of Permanent Residence (PR).


This section is relevant irrespective of whether current status is Tiered or Non-Tiered.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

ConfusedJack
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Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by ConfusedJack » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:58 pm

Hi All,
It looks like finally I am in correct place to get the info. I am confused that my Sec-3C period counts in 5 years for ILR or not.

Please find below details.

Entered to Tier-1 (E) category - Aug 2012
Extension Application - July 2015
Extension Refused - Sep 2015
Admin Review Refused - Nov 2015
Fresh Application for Extension - Dec 2015
Extension Approved - July 2016 (till July 2018)

I am very confused that that time I spent (8 months) counts towards 5 years required on Tier-1 (E) or not.

Am I eligible to apply in Aug 2017 or should I wait till June/July 2018.

Thanks in Advance,

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annoyedatukba
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by annoyedatukba » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:19 pm

ConfusedJack wrote:Hi All,
It looks like finally I am in correct place to get the info. I am confused that my Sec-3C period counts in 5 years for ILR or not.

Please find below details.

Entered to Tier-1 (E) category - Aug 2012
Extension Application - July 2015
Extension Refused - Sep 2015
Admin Review Refused - Nov 2015
Fresh Application for Extension - Dec 2015
Extension Approved - July 2016 (till July 2018)

I am very confused that that time I spent (8 months) counts towards 5 years required on Tier-1 (E) or not.


Am I eligible to apply in Aug 2017 or should I wait till June/July 2018.

Thanks in Advance,
It is my understanding that time spent on section 3C counts towards the 10 year ILR application.

But you would have to wait till July 2018 to apply for ILR under T1 Entrepreneur Visa. You can apply up to 28 days before your BRP expires.

Mrchaany
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by Mrchaany » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:20 pm

Yes
You can apply for IlR
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ConfusedJack
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by ConfusedJack » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:43 pm

Thanks for your response guys.
@B2B: Hi mate, can you please mention whether Sec-3C period counts in 5 years period and I can apply after Jul/Aug 2017. 10 years long residency route is not going to work in my case. So, I should go through T-1(E) to ILR.
Thanking you

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Zimba
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by Zimba » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:01 pm

Time spent on section 3C counts towards the 5 year settlement :!:
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seasky
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by seasky » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:09 pm

3C is automatic continuation of previous leave. Did u apply AR and 2nd app in time?

ConfusedJack
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by ConfusedJack » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:52 pm

seasky wrote:3C is automatic continuation of previous leave. Did u apply AR and 2nd app in time?
Hi Mate,
Thanks for your response.
Yes, Everything done in-time.

seasky
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by seasky » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:45 pm

you are fine for ILR at 5yrs. don't forget you need 24 month of employment since July 2016 (not since July 2015)

ConfusedJack
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by ConfusedJack » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:16 pm

seasky wrote:you are fine for ILR at 5yrs. don't forget you need 24 month of employment since July 2016 (not since July 2015)
Thanks Seasky,
Really appreciate your help with the info.

ConfusedJack
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by ConfusedJack » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:47 pm

Hi All,
I understand that Sec-3c period counts towards 5 years. I tried to find some official document published by home office stating this, but I could not find anything. If any one can find something regarding this please post the link or related text.
Thanks in Advance

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CR001
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by CR001 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:51 pm

ConfusedJack wrote:Hi All,
I understand that Sec-3c period counts towards 5 years. I tried to find some official document published by home office stating this, but I could not find anything. If any one can find something regarding this please post the link or related text.
Thanks in Advance
Page 19 in link below.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -v15.0.pdf
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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ConfusedJack
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by ConfusedJack » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:45 pm

CR001 wrote:
ConfusedJack wrote:Hi All,
I understand that Sec-3c period counts towards 5 years. I tried to find some official document published by home office stating this, but I could not find anything. If any one can find something regarding this please post the link or related text.
Thanks in Advance
Page 19 in link below.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -v15.0.pdf
Thanks CR001, you are a Star

Abc499
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by Abc499 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:53 pm

ConfusedJack wrote:
Entered to Tier-1 (E) category - Aug 2012
Extension Application - July 2015
Extension Refused - Sep 2015
Admin Review Refused - Nov 2015
Fresh Application for Extension - Dec 2015
Extension Approved - July 2016 (till July 2018)

I am very confused that that time I spent (8 months) counts towards 5 years required on Tier-1 (E) or not.

Am I eligible to apply in Aug 2017 or should I wait till June/July 2018.

Thanks in Advance,
If you covered by sec 3C then fine but it is not clear (as you did not specify the dates) that you are covered by sec 3C. when the Admin review refused you are no more covered by sec 3C (if visa expired earlier). So the important fact is after how many days you have applied for extension again after the admin review refusal. I believe this is the main fact in your case.

vinny
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by vinny » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:28 pm

Was the period between the AR refusal and the fresh application less than 28 days?

As they granted the extension, I would have thought that any overstay was within the limit as required under 245AAA(a)(iv).
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Zimba
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by Zimba » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:02 pm

vinny wrote:Was the period between the AR refusal and the fresh application less than 28 days?
It should have been, otherwise he would have gotten an automatic refusal.

The OP had section 3C from August 2015 to Nov 2015 when the AR was concluded, then he was an overstayer between Nov 2015 to July 2016. Given that the OP applied for a fresh application within 28 days of becoming an overstayer and the fresh application subsequently was approved, that period of overstaying will be disregarded for ILR. As Vinny pointed to the immigration rules paragraph 245AAA(a)(iv) which clearly says:
(iv)the applicant has any previous period of overstaying between periods of leave disregarded where: the further application was made before 24 November 2016 and within 28 days of the expiry of leave; or the further application was made on or after 24 November 2016 and paragraph 39E of these Rules applied.
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ConfusedJack
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by ConfusedJack » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:03 am

vinny wrote:Was the period between the AR refusal and the fresh application less than 28 days?

As they granted the extension, I would have thought that any overstay was within the limit as required under 245AAA(a)(iv).
Hi Vinny,
Fresh application made with in 28 days of AR Refusal.

Thanks

gt23
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by gt23 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:02 pm

Hi

My question is can we still vary application during 2nd application?

If somoeones initial extension gets rejected after going through AR (3c finished) and applies for fresh application within 28 days can they still vary their application for 10 years ILR? Or will they have to wait for the 2nd application result?

Thanks

vinny
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by vinny » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:30 pm

It seems possible to vary an out of time application.
Applications for leave to remain: validation, variation and withdrawal wrote:Example scenario 3

An applicant submits application A out of time. They then submit application B before application A has been decided.

An applicant cannot be granted more that one type of leave at a time. Where 2 applications have been submitted out of time, the second application will be considered as a variation of the first application.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Zimba
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by Zimba » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:01 pm

The fresh application must be made within 14 days of becoming an overstayer based on the current rules, not 28 days.
Even though you can vary the application, it does not mean that you have spent 10 years continuously in the UK. The rules under 245AAA(a)(iv) disregards any previous period of overstaying between periods of leave. The long residence guide uses the term gap to refer to such periods of overstaying, meaning the gap between two period of lawful stay with valid leave.
If you are short of 6 months for your ILR and make an out of time application that takes 6 months, you have been an overstayer for the last 6 months. That is not what I can see the rules allow for 10 year continuous stay in the UK :?
My take is that the second application needs to succeed so that such a gap to be disregarded AND such application cannot be an ILR application itself.
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indiancitizen
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Re: Time spent on Sec-3C counts for ILR?

Post by indiancitizen » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:02 pm

I had met a famous immigration firm today regarding this scenario, about Section 245AAA they are under the opinion that the term "overstay between two valid leave" means the number of days you spent within the "14 days" period where Section 3C applies.

In ConfusedJack's case and my case, there has been a refusal, followed by an admin review and a fresh application .So we were not under section 3C after the second application.

I am still spending all my time and energy to find any rules/paragraphs supporting the claim that the time spend outside section 3C (between a refused application and a successful second application )can be used for ILR.

Can I request all the moderators to help me with this quest ? This will make a huge difference to my family's future if I can somehow prove this period of overstay can be disregarded for ILR

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