4EUFam and EU wide travel - the complete guide

Ca.Funke.....I will check out the embassies for you??

What exactly would you like me to look for and post for you??? If the embassies are implementing the Directive?

Let me know!

The following is from the French Embassy Website....looks like they are not implementing Visa-free travel for family member.....you just don't have to pay???


If you are married to an EU citizen or one or both of your parents are EU citizens, the visa is free of charge ONLY if you travel together or join to France the EU member family. Otherwise you have to pay for the visa. Please provide the Embassy with your marriage - or birth certificate and your spouse’s passport or your parent(s)passport(s) as proof.

Hi ciaramc,

you have a PM in your inbox...

...our result are now posted here...

The list with embassies' websites was moved just behind all the answers from the embassies.

This should make things easier.

That's here.

here's the spanish one:
http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Embajadas/Du ... ngHSW.aspx

ashimashi wrote:here's the spanish one:
http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Embajadas/Du ... ngHSW.aspx

That's good news from the From the Spanish Embassy...

http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Embajadas/Du ... ublin.aspx

According to Directive 2004 / 38 EC possesion of a valid EU Fam residence card shall EXEMPT family members of EU citizens from the visa requirements, providing they accompany or join them. In any circumstances, EU citizens family members’ applications will be processed with due priority.

This email was sent to all EU-embassies in Dublin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian
Date: Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 3:59 PM
Subject: Visa necessary? No! - Petition to parliament
To: All EU-embassies in Dublin
CC: All people who replied, Norway, Iceland and Switzerland

Dear Madam or Sir,

recently your country's embassy in Dublin (Ireland) was asked weather my wife would need a visa to visit your country.

The same question was sent to all EU-embassies in Dublin in order to see what the replies would be. All answers I received are listed here:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=30020

This reveals that even within Schengen-countries the answer to the same question is not always the same:

My wife is Lebanese, I am German, my wife is in possession of an Irish-issued "4EUFam"-card and we want to travel together.

The mentioned 4EUFam-card is the Irish version of a 'Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen'.

In this setup, the applicable law is Directive 2004/38/EC (available >>here<<). Article 5 in conjunction with Article 10 stipulate, that family-members of EU-citizens can travel together throughout all of the European Union without any additional visa.

Article 5
Right of entry
1. (...)
2. ... For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.

Article 10
Issue of residence cards
1. The right of residence of family members of a Union
citizen who are not nationals of a Member State shall be
evidenced by the issuing of a document called 'Residence card
of a family member of a Union citizen' (...)

The European Commission describes the consequences of the law >>here<<:


The answer to my original question ("does my wife need a visa when traveling together with me") is thus "no - she does not need a visa".

I explicitly apologise for "testing" this, my sole aim is to be able to travel throughout the European Union with my wife, as this is our right per the Directive. I wish to raise awareness for this niche-situation, as due to a lack of general knowledge of this regulation it is not easy to travel according to this rule.

I acknowledge that the situation the legislator created for embassies is complicated, however I feel it is very important to be aware of the details.

In the same regard I sent a petition to the European Parliament (can be seen >>here<<), suggesting that the "Residence Cards for Family Members" should have a uniform look and some other features, that would eliminate the problems that became very obvious through the very diverse replies.

To make this complete I need to make specific mention of some countries

• May I direct your special attention to the very good answers of Slovenia and Denmark. They answer correctly that a visa is NOT needed, while also fully describing the mess we are in. Unfortunately only the Danish version is available as an email, as the Slovenian embassy called me and gave very useful information over the phone.
• I never sent the original question to Austria, Belgium, Cyprus and Malta as they confirmed that this is correct in earlier contacts I had with those embassies. Thus this email is informational for them.
• As Iceland and Norway are inside Schengen they are indirectly involved, so I asked them too in order to get a complete picture. As they are outside the EU I guess 2004/38/EC does not automatically apply - therefore this is purely an informational email for them as well.
• As Switzerland's webpages describe the situation for Switzerland and Liechtenstein without any ambiguity, I never asked them in the first place. In the light of their accession to the Schengen-community in the near future, I include them as recipients in this email too.

I am hoping to achieve the following:

• To initiate some fruitful discussion between the involved embassies and ministries.
• To receive acknowledgment from all remaining embassies that the above is indeed correct.
• That all EU-embassies in Dublin include information about this specific situation on their respective websites.
• You may want to inform your respective embassies in London, Sofia, Bukarest and Nicosia of this, as this situation applies in those counties as well.

Thank you very much for your attention,
regards from Dublin,

Christian

chaps, hats off to you all

It's quite worrying that many of the embassy sites *are such a nightmare!* to look at.

I would suggest it might not be a smart move to get them looking around on here though! Let's face it, most embassys need no excuse to undertake general bumbrainery. Best bet is to make it into a pdf, i'm happy to host it somewhere for you guys; if that's going to be a problem, please PM me.

PPie

P.S. Is this thread sticky yet?

porkpie wrote:I would suggest it might not be a smart move to get them looking around on here though!

Anyone think so, especially the moderators?

Personally, I'd be quite happy to lead them here. After all my (real) name is attached to all of this with the embassies.

No Name wrote:The reason I posted my message was that ca.funke wrote:

The Icelandic answer is, in my opinion, the most impressive one overall, as it correctly describes the situation inside the EU, as well as how this affects Iceland.

However the answer ca.funke got from the Icelandic embassy was incorrect and therefore not impressive:

Explicitly acknowledging that I originally wrote the above, I now deleted this passage from the email I will send to all embassies.

Like I said before my capacities are stretched right now, so I won't get into additional details around complicated EU/EEA relations.

If anyone wants to follow up on this in greater detail, that'd of course be great.

As for myself, I just re-wrote everything around this so it's rather vague.

This is done in an effort not to loose the main point out of sight: I would like to achieve that the Irish 4EUFam-card is easily accepted as a Visa-equivalent, so I (and everyone else in the same situation) can finally move around the EU without too much hassle.

the above email (scroll back 4 posts) has now been sent.

I did NOT include the MFA's into the list of recipients, as it's so hard to find all their email-addresses, with many countries only allowing to contact their MFA's via a webform.

Let's see what the feedback is...

I'd much welcome links to the embassies' websites, where the >>ones given now<< are not exact (please PM me, I'll give credit)

Just to do everything possible to convince the last remaining countries who still do not know about the law, I lodged the following complaint with the commission today:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian
Date: Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Subject: Complaint against various countries in connection with 2004/38/EC
To: EU Plaintes < sg-plaintes@ec.europa.eu >
Cc: embassies of countries as mentioned below


Dear Madam or Sir,

I hereby lodge a complaint against the following countries:[list][*]the Czech Republic
[*]Estonia
[*]France
[*]Greece
[*]Hungary
[*]Italy
[*]Lithuania
[*]Portugal
[*]Slovakia
[*]the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland[/list]

Grounds for the complaint:

I am German, my wife is Lebanese, we live in Ireland and we are in possession of a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" (in Ireland called "4EUFam").

As per Directive 2004/38/EC, Articles 5 and 10, we have the right to travel throughout all of the European Union without additional visas for my Lebanese wife. This right is additionally confirmed on >>your very own website<<.

(http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html)
[quote]YOU MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN ENTRY VISA
(...)
Possession of the valid residence card, referred to in the relevant fact sheet, issued by any Member State, exempts you from the visa obligation not only in the Member State which issued the residence card, but in all Member States.

The above mentioned countries deny us this right, urging us to apply for visas before traveling.

Please see emails exchanged and websites reviewed with/of the above embassies on >>this<< website.
(http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=30020)


Thanks for taking immediate action, as we are deprived of one of our most fundamental rights, the freedom of movement.

Regards from Dublin, Christian(...)[/size][/quote]

Finally, at last, the first real success: (hope it's not the last)

• Estonia confirmed today that this is correct
• Info changed on first page of this thread
• Thanks a lot to the authorities of Estonia, and sorry for being such a pain about this

The list of "problematic" countries in connection with 4EUFam gets smaller...

Hi all,

the >>petition<< is now registered with the European Parliament. (See >>this<< thread)

If you would like to support it, please send a postcard or a letter.

• Include a short sentence of why you support it.
• Include your full name and address
• The Petition# is 1279-08.
• The recipient is:
  • Secretariat of the Committee on Petitions
    European Parliament
    rue Wirtz
    1047 Brussels
    Belgium

Please post your support in here as well

Thanks

Received a positive >>reply by Latvia<< today. (Integrated in the flow on page 1)

I find it interesting to see the mix of countries who do not reply and/or ignore the law...

...well - just felt like highlighting this update.

Well Funke and some some others in the room, I can see you guys are fighting for this 4EUFAM from Ireland.

Someone mentioned Romania and Bulgaria, well here its more like heaven cus you can even travel without the spouse to Romania or Bulgaria just with your FAMILY MEMBER CARD and sure Passport and maybe the marriage certificate but u can travel alone without any problem.

We all know UK and IRELAND are the problem and I dont blame any country for not accepting there family member card bcus they are not also accepting others...which is true and we all know it.

I wrote to some couple of EU countries and this was there response.

1) Dear Mr Charles, Thank you for your e-mail. Sorry, for hopefully not late answer. Yes, you do not need a visa to travel to Schengen-countries up to 90 days, if you have EU CITIZENS FAMILY MEMBER RESIDENCE CARD(So if you are married with an Eu-citizen).
Best regards,
Heli Huhtamaki-SaarelaEmbassy of Finland in Bucharest.


2) Dear Mr. Charles Mudy,
please note, that as a family member of a Romanian citizen you are
allowed to travel without visa directly to Germany by plane, only
together with your wife. You must be owner of a valid passport and the
new identity card for family members. We also recommend you to have the
certificate of marriage with you.
If on your way to Germany, respectively return to Romania you transit
Hungaria and Austria by car,bus or train, you must inform yourself at
the embassy of each country you intend to pass over.

Regarding visa information please find enclosed our leaflet.
In order to be filled in, you are kindly asked to download from
www.bucuresti.diplo.de
(http://www.bucuresti.diplo.de/Vertretun ... i2008.html)
the English version of the visa application files as well as the
declaration mentioned below, including the overleaf of it.
Kind Regards
Visa Section
Deutsche Botschaft Bukarest

So its clear EU to EU dont have probems ...the main problem comes btw EU and UK + IRELAND. If the both dont allow visa free then why should the other allow visa-free for them.

Ca.Funke I have wrote a latter to the EU concerning your pettition that it shouldnt be just accept and it will be unlawfull and might bring up problems when the IRELAND and UK FAMILY MEMBER CARD are visa-free and the rest of the EU will need visa to there own territory..
THAT IS NONSENSE AND IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

The best thing is for them to step them and correct there mistakes instead of feeling superior..if not then there card cant be considered....first they make the card a stamp on passport and ireland with a different name...
The rest of the EU countries have the same card name and same look.
why is this 2 countries being a problem?

Hi Charles4u,

thanks for your support.

We are in the lucky position that we will move to Switzerland soon. For all I care Ireland and the UK can drop out of the EU now

I will save my excursions on how much the governments of IRL&the UK have made me love them...

...all the best to Romania, rgds, Christian

Well good for you and it will be better trying somewhere much better with a good paying salary but UK seems to be the best to me.

Funke my wife is working there and I wanna try re-applying once more to see if they will give me the EEA thing to go to UK to work cus the salary is very low here in Romania. But if am not given I and my wife plan to go somewhere else to settle and start a new job but we are not sure of any EU or SCHENGEN good salary paying like the UK.

Kindly advice me on any other country apart from UK on the salary rate and which one will be the best of choice.

If it's not ignorant immigration officers, it seems airline check-in staff have yet to catch up

Ca.Funke really want to thank you for your GREAT job!!!!!!!!!!!
Also everyone that participate on this useful post

Received letter from DOJ today to get the EUfam 4 we were entitled to thought we've got a stamp4 since 2005
1year granted first up to 2006 then a 5years GNIB stamp4 still dont understand why we didnt get the EUfam back in august 2006

Anyway tomorow we'll go to burgh quay and have it It took me a visit to GNIB office and a few fone calls to DOJ followed by a letter from our sollicitor to have it changed (about 2weeks which is fair enough).

We did all this to have a chance to travel to EU without a visa but it seems to be quite difficult y:

If you dont mind I would like to suggest we keep each others informed about our experience in borders and how we handled it. Maybe in another post

ca.funke wrote:Spain - no answer so far

Through posts of ashimashi and archigabe this seems to be OK as follows:

archigabe wrote:That's good news from the From the Spanish Embassy...

http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Embajadas/Du ... ublin.aspx

According to Directive 2004 / 38 EC possesion of a valid EU Fam residence card shall EXEMPT family members of EU citizens from the visa requirements, providing they accompany or join them. In any circumstances, EU citizens family members’ applications will be processed with due priority.

Followed the link but only find this info:

Family members of eu citizens
Visa appointment.

EU citizens family members’ applications will be processed with due priority. Providing they accompany or join them, they will only have to provide the Embassy with:

Residence card
Certificate of marriage
Spouse passport
Proof they are travelling together or joining the Eu spouse

About EU fam the only time it is mentionned is about visa handling fee as follows:

Visa Handling Fee
€ 60 Euros
For Albanian, Bosnian, Macedonian, Moldovan, Montenegran, Russian, Serbian and Ukranian nationals, the fee is € 35
Visa handling is FREE of charge for:
Children under 6 years of age
Students (primary school, secondary school, college, post-graduate) and teachers traveling with them when in in an educational trip or training.
If you are married to an EU citizen or one or both of your parents are EU citizens but you are not in possesion of a valid EU Fam residence card the visa is FREE OF CHARGE PROVIDING YOU ACCOMPANY OR JOIN THE EU CITIZEN. Otherwise you have to pay for the visa. Please provide the Embassy with your marriage or birth certificate and your spouse´s passport or your parent(s) passport(s) as proof.
The visa handling fee is due upon application it is not refundable and is only payable by postal order, cheque or cash

what does this mean? think they might have changed their position about EUfam?

Please anyone can help on this? Have anyone tried to travel to Spain on EUfam?

Thanks

We just got back from a trip to Frankfurt,Germany.Had no problems entering or leaving with Stamp4 EU fam card.

archigabe wrote:We just got back from a trip to Frankfurt,Germany.Had no problems entering or leaving with Stamp4 EU fam card.

The Germans, the Dutch and some East European countries are just about the few literate and law abiding EEA countries, the rest including the UK, France and Spain are just a bunch of idiots. They sign upto directives, then decide not to implement it or they try banana republic tactics to deprive people of their legal rights.

trinity wrote:...Followed the link but only find this info...

Eerrgghh - when I posted what I posted I copied and pasted from their website...


Some (mad?) person in the Spanish embassy must have changed the information given since I conducted my survey.

Given the amount of coutries it's obvious that some of them yould change their websites at some stage. This, however, is the first time I witness information going from correct to incorrect.

Given the attitude of the Spanish embassy (no replies to email, rude on the phone) I won't get involved with them... Good luck in case someone wants to try to handle this...