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Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

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Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by Obie » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:59 pm

In the last few weeks i have noticed that most Irish lawyers have not grappled with the changes that has occurred in Ireland following the case of Lahyani.

The earlier case of Shyllon, had established that a person cannot benefit from a retained right of Residence if their sponsor is not in the state at the time of divorce, or a separated couple cannot benefit from a retained right of residence on the basis of separation.

Clearly Shyllon was very restrictive, and Lahyani was a lot more favourable. It was a well reasoned case and one that made enormous sense giving the position in Ireland in regards to divorce.

The case of Retention came back to the court in the case of Singh, where a reference was made to the European Court of Justice.

The CJEU gave their answers in the Summer of 2015.

It follows from the case of Singh, that a person in Ireland can no longer retained a right of residence, unless the EEA citizens was residing in Ireland at the time of the divorce. If the EEA Citizens went to their home country to file a divorce with a view never to return to Ireland, then rights cannot be retained, even if the marriage had lasted for a period of 3 years before the EEA citizen left the state.

It is hoped that this post will clarify the current position of the law and the changes that has occurred in Ireland.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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broli
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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by broli » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:21 pm

Thanks Obie :idea: retention is now nearly impossible if i am not wrong

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by jul1 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:05 pm

broli wrote:Thanks Obie :idea: retention is now nearly impossible if i am not wrong

it's possible, living here for 3 consecutive years on eu4fam card than initiate divorce (likely in another country ) than apply for retention,

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by broli » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:59 am

jul1 wrote:
broli wrote:Thanks Obie :idea: retention is now nearly impossible if i am not wrong

it's possible, living here for 3 consecutive years on eu4fam card than initiate divorce (likely in another country ) than apply for retention,
In Order to intiate the divorce the EU citizen has to stay in that country for a certain period usually 6 months to 1 year and will have to get an address and so on.

When she does that Non EU citizen loses his right by the time divorce starts. Isn't it?

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by Obie » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:37 am

This topic and areas of law raises many issue of general importance, which may need to be addressed by the courts at some point in the future.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by jul1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:38 am

Obie wrote:This topic and areas of law raises many issue of general importance, which may need to be addressed by the courts at some point in the future.

its definitely possible in a case where the eu citizen doesnt leave Ireland but after 3 years of living together they divorce but the eu citizen remains and works in the country.

Maybe the hardest part is to divorce in Ireland, its crazy that u have to prove that u were separated for 4 years out of 5 right before the divorce proceeding, but i guess people are still lucky since 1995 at least it is possible to get divorce at all....craziness...the only 2 country in the world where divorce is not possible is the Vatican and the Philippines, Ireland is just a step better....

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by usmanch313 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:34 pm

HI Every one
i have similar issue ,my wife is Latvian Citizen living and working in Ireland
since she arrived in state ,we have almost Four years together
well after some issues on going between me and her
we both Decided to go for Divorce in Latvia throughout Notary Public we submitted all papers from Ireland and Day of appointment my wife will fly in Latvia and signed the papers Front Notary ,and she will back on next Flight to Ireland and we will get Divorce by post in Ireland .
is that safe to do ?did i can apply after Retention ?
kindly Reply me im Really Thanks full to every one :)

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by Obie » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 pm

I believe I have explained in clear terms the position in Ireland. You can read from my above post.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce

Post by jul1 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:37 pm

usmanch313 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:34 pm
HI Every one
i have similar issue ,my wife is Latvian Citizen living and working in Ireland
since she arrived in state ,we have almost Four years together
well after some issues on going between me and her
we both Decided to go for Divorce in Latvia throughout Notary Public we submitted all papers from Ireland and Day of appointment my wife will fly in Latvia and signed the papers Front Notary ,and she will back on next Flight to Ireland and we will get Divorce by post in Ireland .
is that safe to do ?did i can apply after Retention ?
kindly Reply me im Really Thanks full to every one :)

this exactly the situation i described above, live in Ireland for 3 years, get divorced in another country, than come back here, at the time of divorce you will be habitually resident in Ireland , you just take few days off to sort the paperworks, - and no, you dont have to live 6-12 months in that country to divorce, especially cause we are talking about eu treaty rights retention, so there is 1 eu citizen involved, they can always go back to their home eu country to get divorce, where u have address and registration anyway, that is your home country, where you are a citizen of.

Actually it is hard to imagine any other scenarios, cause here you have to prove that you are living separately for the last 4 years, if you are on stamp 4eufam, and you prove that 4 years, it means you were not entitled to have 4eufam in the last 4 years, cause your rights are derived from the eu citizien, but a broken relationship would not qualify for 4eufam, so you were here illegally.
Maybe if you are on permanent resident card, living here for the last 10 years, than you can say that you separated 4 years ago, you will be safe, cause you were 6 years here in a legit relationship (by that time u legally became permanent resident), though it is very unlikely that someone did not apply for the irish citizenship after that many years.

Though i heard some people from Asia would loose their citizenship in their home country, and only a citizen can own property in that country, and in case they want to return later in their own house they must not loose their citizenship by getting naturalised here.

But, for like 99% of the cases you have to get a divorce in another eu country to be eligible for EUTR retention, at least until the divorce law will not become on pair with a civilized modern country.

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by Grace620 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:20 am

Hi Guys,

Update I have got approval letter basis on Eu spouse divorced on retention, it's took six months to finialsed .

Regards Grace

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by Mrnew » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:55 pm

Congratulations grace 620
This is a very good news was it enitial application or review for retention?
Actually Iam waiting for my retention review application from almost 7 months now
Hope will get a good news soon
Thanks

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by Grace620 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:29 am

Mrnew wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:55 pm
Congratulations grace 620
This is a very good news was it enitial application or review for retention?
Actually Iam waiting for my retention review application from almost 7 months now
Hope will get a good news soon
Thanks
Hi Mrnew,

Thank you- it was initial application finalised with in 6 months.

Regards Grace

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by Mrnew » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:40 pm

That's great man you are lucky enough ,
Could you explain your case a bit ?
It might help me understanding what have I done wrong as my case was refused now the review application is in process from pass 7 months still no decision
Thanks

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by Grace620 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:34 pm

Mrnew wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:40 pm
That's great man you are lucky enough ,
Could you explain your case a bit ?
It might help me understanding what have I done wrong as my case was refused now the review application is in process from pass 7 months still no decision
Thanks
Thank you Mrnew,

We married 2012 lived together up to April 2017.
Divorced decree released in June 2017.
Apply in Aug got Tem R 6 months, until 03/18.
Divorce accepted with extension 9 months up to 12/18 .
Documents submitted to Inis 5 years PRTB, Gas , elect, bills bank statements, lease , 5 years P60s, P21s , payslips, during divorce until decree , employment contract, up to Divoced finalised.

Hope above make sense. Best wishes man stay calm , belive or not I did not contact Inis to make decisions on my EU5, EU3, citizen. Lets give them little time over the period .

Regards Grace

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by Mrnew » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:09 pm

Thanks man for detail answer
Hope will get my decision soon
Thanks
Regards

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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by finalversion_2k » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:04 pm

Grace620 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:34 pm
Mrnew wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:40 pm
That's great man you are lucky enough ,
Could you explain your case a bit ?
It might help me understanding what have I done wrong as my case was refused now the review application is in process from pass 7 months still no decision
Thanks
Thank you Mrnew,

We married 2012 lived together up to April 2017.
Divorced decree released in June 2017.
Apply in Aug got Tem R 6 months, until 03/18.
Divorce accepted with extension 9 months up to 12/18 .
Documents submitted to Inis 5 years PRTB, Gas , elect, bills bank statements, lease , 5 years P60s, P21s , payslips, during divorce until decree , employment contract, up to Divoced finalised.

Hope above make sense. Best wishes man stay calm , belive or not I did not contact Inis to make decisions on my EU5, EU3, citizen. Lets give them little time over the period .

Regards Grace

@Grace620: when you say divorce accepted with extension what that mean?? do they send letter that divorce accepted OR not?? I applied EU5 in Sep and then there was back & through communication and requesting decree which we sent them then requested documents which we also sent them etc.. and in Nov they came back with Enclosure have been added to your clients file. A decision will issue on your clients application in due course whats your observation on it.

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Change of status

Post by charli111 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:00 am

Hi
I need advise about my case . I was married in 2013 with the Latvian citizen and she cannot stay in ireland for long time but always in and out . And now September 2018 she go and decide not to back . We apply divorce it will finalise in april 2019 and we didnot inform the department yet. I meet the solicitor's and no one guide me properly. They just want case . My citizenship time period is complete as well but they want change my stamp 4eufam to stamp 4 . My few friends got temporary visa's for 4 months to six months and renew until the case will finalise but no body get any permanent decision on that case's. How many percent chance i can change my status application approve. Plz guide me thanks very much

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Re: Change of status

Post by Finepaddy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 pm

charli111 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:00 am
Hi
I need advise about my case . I was married in 2013 with the Latvian citizen and she cannot stay in ireland for long time but always in and out . And now September 2018 she go and decide not to back . We apply divorce it will finalise in april 2019 and we didnot inform the department yet. I meet the solicitor's and no one guide me properly. They just want case . My citizenship time period is complete as well but they want change my stamp 4eufam to stamp 4 . My few friends got temporary visa's for 4 months to six months and renew until the case will finalise but no body get any permanent decision on that case's. How many percent chance i can change my status application approve. Plz guide me thanks very much
Hi,
To ur case its 50/50 chance but in end it will depend how hard you fight back.
First thing they ask why u didn't apply independent stamp in 2018?
Second why u didn't inform them about ur divorce.
Rest case will continue, yes it's a tricky case so if u r thinking going to solicitor then be ready to spend good money and there is good chance mean while they take decision on ur case u might become illegal without Visa.

charli111
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Re: Changes in relation to Retained Right following Divorce.

Post by charli111 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:38 pm

Hi
So what i need to do and which application i made to make me safely.

Finepaddy
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Re: Change of status

Post by Finepaddy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:40 pm

Finepaddy wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 pm
charli111 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:00 am
Hi
I need advise about my case . I was married in 2013 with the Latvian citizen and she cannot stay in ireland for long time but always in and out . And now September 2018 she go and decide not to back . We apply divorce it will finalise in april 2019 and we didnot inform the department yet. I meet the solicitor's and no one guide me properly. They just want case . My citizenship time period is complete as well but they want change my stamp 4eufam to stamp 4 . My few friends got temporary visa's for 4 months to six months and renew until the case will finalise but no body get any permanent decision on that case's. How many percent chance i can change my status application approve. Plz guide me thanks very much
Hi,
To ur case its 50/50 chance but in end it will depend how hard you fight back.
First thing they ask why u didn't apply independent stamp in 2018?
Second why u didn't inform them about ur divorce.
Rest case will continue, yes it's a tricky case so if u r thinking going to solicitor then be ready to spend good money and there is good chance mean while they take decision on ur case u might become illegal without Visa.
They can see the date on ur divorce certificate but that's not the main concern, GNIB want to know when ur divorce proceedings initiated. Like what date did u apply to court first time.
Ur wife ins and outs may become problem if she left any foot print back in her country.

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