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chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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dubnew
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by dubnew » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:33 am

euspouse07 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:23 am
Mark_ir wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:32 am
arz1986 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:46 am
One of my friend case is in court, he get the letter for out of court settlement offer and 7000 euro cost refund by INIS. INis state he have to withdraw the case from the court, then resubmit updated documents and then reconsider his case and give decision in 16 weeks.
i think within 6 months all thing will be sorted.
Do you have any idea about your friend case?
What was the basis of his case?
What type of updated document they are asking now for considering his case by INIS?
This is a great thread.
I am asking you question on behalf of my friend.
My understanding is that as of now, there are two types of cases.
One, where INIS has established/alleged that marriage was sham and conducted for the sake of immigration gains.
Second, where the union was genuine but the relationship fell apart and none eu partner couldn't fulfil the needed requirements to retain his/her rights to remain in the state.
My friend has submitted the application under section 3 mentioning lots of grounds.
I wonder, in the light of new judgment , fresh appeal needed to be submitted to EU TREARY RIGHTS SECTION .
THANKS
Hi,

In any circumstance they must consider both applications under article 30 and 31 of directive 2004/38.

Article 35

Abuse of rights

Member States may adopt the necessary measures to refuse, terminate or withdraw any right conferred by this Directive in the case of abuse of rights or fraud, such as marriages of convenience. Any such measure shall be proportionate and subject to the procedural safeguards provided for in Articles 30 and 31.

azee81
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by azee81 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:20 pm

my solicitor told me that you can only submmit section 3 application once you receive intention to deport letter they give you give you three options from which you have to choose humanitarian leave to remain.

second thing is that how they going to mkae decision that it was marriage of convenience or fraud marriage there must be some kind of criteria.

finalversion_2k
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by finalversion_2k » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:09 pm

I have applied retention of rights in 2018 Sep.. not sure decision of my case is delay because of that case OR for any other reasons.. should I expect letter from department that my case fell under chenchooliah case OR not..

azee81
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by azee81 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:23 pm

if your eufam4 permission was not revoked. then i dont think your case fall in to that category there might be some other reason you should ask eu treaty right bout the update

finalversion_2k
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by finalversion_2k » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:04 pm

Thanks @azee81 : my eufam4 wasn't revoked.. do we have any clear lines or details from department. that which application fell in that category??

azee81
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by azee81 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:56 pm

nobody is giving clear lines even solicitors not clear about that what inis going to do with these cases all they say is just wait and see.

my case is different my permission was revoked so i have no choice but to wait but your case is different you push them to come up with decision on your application.

arz1986
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by arz1986 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:29 am

how to push, i write a letter, two weeks ago, no acknowledge letter by INIS this time.

azee81
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by azee81 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:50 pm

only those can push them whos permissions were not revoked by e.mailing eu treaty rights section they always reply with in 2 or 3 days.

arz1986
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by arz1986 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:24 pm

griffith wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:46 am
Retention cases are delayed because of the chencholiah judgement.
The immigration is sending out letters and this is what the letter says.


""" The position in your clients immigration case is that his case is impacted by the ruling of the European court of justice in the chencholiah case. Your clients case is one of many such cases so impacted. At the moment the immigration service delivery function of the department of justice and equality is working to develop the new processes necessitated by the ECJ ruling. As soon as those processes have been finalised we will be in contact with the various persons whose cases are impacted by the chencholiah ruling """""
I get the same wording letter today.

finalversion_2k
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by finalversion_2k » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:59 pm

arz1986 wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:24 pm
griffith wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:46 am
Retention cases are delayed because of the chencholiah judgement.
The immigration is sending out letters and this is what the letter says.


""" The position in your clients immigration case is that his case is impacted by the ruling of the European court of justice in the chencholiah case. Your clients case is one of many such cases so impacted. At the moment the immigration service delivery function of the department of justice and equality is working to develop the new processes necessitated by the ECJ ruling. As soon as those processes have been finalised we will be in contact with the various persons whose cases are impacted by the chencholiah ruling """""
I get the same wording letter today.

Wondering Retention applicant are also getting same letter? OR Just revoked applicant..

If I'm not wrong @griffith apply for retention and his visa wasn't revoked..

Obie
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by Obie » Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:42 pm

The minister is also writing to those with retention application, who he is minded to refuse, not all retention cases. Only those that do not meet the requirements of the regulations, because for example the EU citizen had left the state before a divorce commenced.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

finalversion_2k
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by finalversion_2k » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:07 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:42 pm
The minister is also writing to those with retention application, who he is minded to refuse, not all retention cases. Only those that do not meet the requirements of the regulations, because for example the EU citizen had left the state before a divorce commenced.
Thanks @Obie for clarification. I have applied for retention of rights on Sep 2018 and still waiting. my stamp4EUFAM was expire in Oct-2019 and they send me temp Stamp till 2-Feb-2020 .. wondering should I ask them for clarification?? OR should I ask them for another temp stamp OR for decision??

will really appreciate your advice on this. Thanks

azee81
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by azee81 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:57 pm

if we go through the actual case its about the departure of the eu citizen from the state and left his non eu spouse with no rights in the state .

if the minister makes refusal on the basis that eu citizen departs from the state without divorce then whats the point of considering that judgement at the first place they already revoked permissions on that grounds.

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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by Obie » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:21 pm

Well there are 2 things and they are not mutually exclusive.

1. A person could get refusal on the basis they do not qualify for retained right of residence. This has nothing to do with Chenchooliah nor are they mutually exclusive.

2. Chenchooliah does not confer residence right. It simply provides that the minister's practise of deporting people without right under the regulations with an entry ban, is wrong. That the future possibility of the EU citizen to come back with family to Ireland, should be protected.

The court made clear that contrary to the family members of EU citizen, these people can be removed from the state for reasons other than public policy, but they cannot be deported with an Entry ban.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

azee81
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by azee81 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:48 pm

whats the difference between deportation and removal

Obie
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by Obie » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:52 pm

When deported you are barred from entering the state again, unless the minister removes the order. With removal, there is no bar, and you can apply to enter at anytime.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

arz1986
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by arz1986 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:27 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:21 pm
Well there are 2 things and they are not mutually exclusive.

1. A person could get refusal on the basis they do not qualify for retained right of residence. This has nothing to do with Chenchooliah nor are they mutually exclusive.

2. Chenchooliah does not confer residence right. It simply provides that the minister's practise of deporting people without right under the regulations with an entry ban, is wrong. That the future possibility of the EU citizen to come back with family to Ireland, should be protected.

The court made clear that contrary to the family members of EU citizen, these people can be removed from the state for reasons other than public policy, but they cannot be deported with an Entry ban.
@obie, any advice on my case, why they put us in chenchooliah case. I receive letter from INIS about removal order is not issue and INIS will be in contact with us for longer term status in state. I receive it sep-18. now they r putting us in chenchooliah to issue removal order now. is, chenchooliah case is fruitful to us, or deportation order is on his way.

arz1986
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by arz1986 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:35 pm

I am planning to see it till the end, I might go to court against removal order. Do, INIS announce the new scheme based on this cheenoliah judgement, we have to reapply and then they analysis the application again and come up with the decision. or why they are delaying us, send the decision and move on. Why, they are wasting the time.

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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by griffith » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:27 am

Just to let everyone know that retention applicants who are not impacted by the chenchoolia judgement are getting temporary Visa's for 9 months and when that Visa expires the immigration is giving another temporary 9 months permission to reside until a final decision has been taken.

Their excuse of taking so long for a final decision is this:

""" your clients case is in the queue to be processed. The length of time it takes to process your clients application may vary depending on a number of factors Including the volume of applications on hand. It is in your clients interest to ensure that their application is complete as a negative decision may be made where the immigration officer does not have access to the documents and details which your client wishes to be considered. This office will be in contact with your client in due course.""""""""

This reply is for those whose Visa's were never revoked and immigration was pushed in a way that they were contacted by a solicitor for an update on their clients file.

Hope the above information helps.
Stay strong & never Give up!

azee81
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by azee81 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:52 am

a friend of mine recently apply for retention and he only got 3 months temporary permission and they didnt mention that your case fall under chencooliah judgement.

how somebody would know that their case fall under the judgement or not if the department dont mention it.

arz1986
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by arz1986 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:00 pm

I think inis may issue removal order, to all chenchooliah case. But I am not sure till now. They already write to us, removal order is not issue against us.
One thing is sure, if u r getting three month permission, they will decide most of the case in 3 to 4 months and clear the backlog of files.

finalversion_2k
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by finalversion_2k » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:34 am

@griffith : I applied retention application 2018 sep and still waiting for decision. As my stamp4 was going to expired in 2019Oct so they send 4 months temporary stamp.. visa never revoke or anything, I believe it was pretty straight forward case.

I believe temporary 9month stamp is not for everyone.

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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by Unknown person » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:58 pm

Hello friends i married in 2014 and got my temporary stamp in the same month after 5 months I got permanent stamp for 5 years and that was expired in August 2019 in between that time my spouse just stayed few month and she went back her home country and didnt come back i initated divorce in 2018 and its still in process. I went to one of lawyer and they asked me for a couple of documents I gave them and I was waiting for 3-months and no reply and I keep contacting with them but didn't get any acknowledgement letter from department and they keep asking me I will get within few weeks but I didn't then I went to another lawyer and they ask me same documents and its already passed 6 weeks and lawyer said they applied for section 3 because i cant apply for retention but even no acknowledgement letter does anyone know how long does it take acknowledgement letter .i didnt get any correspondence from department,,,am i fall under chenchooliah judgement,,,,? Does anyone recommend me reliable lawyer or any kind of help which will lead me toward green signal,,,,,tnx

arz1986
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by arz1986 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:53 pm

i sent the letter through solicitor, donot get any acknowledgement letter till now request for temporary stamp. then I write email to INIS department, then they reply by sent the letter to me on home address.
i think, inis is not sending the acknowledgement letter nowaday.

arz1986
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Re: chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

Post by arz1986 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:56 pm

My case is in chenchooliah judgement i donot get any stamp, but if your case outside the chenchooliah judgement u can get stamp. I think. which is good sign.

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