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Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

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johnpromise01
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Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by johnpromise01 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:10 pm

I have applied for Citizenship since February 2020 and my application is already at the second stage. But for the first time I was stopped by the Garda today for driving unaccompanied. The two officer were so kind as they told me they will give me only ticket €85 as warning. But I've been panicking as I fear this will affect my citizenship application. Will I be denied? I am waiting for ticket to I can quickly go and pay. Do I need to inform justice about this or my solicitor as I applied for Citizenship through solicitor? Anyone experience this?

irishman003
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by irishman003 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:17 pm

You need to declare this, this will be kept on record as far as I know.

I don't think this will negatively affect your citizenship as is a minor offense.

Vorona
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by Vorona » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:17 pm

Pay the fine and send a letter to the Citizenship Division, with an explanation and copy of the receipt.
Better if you disclose this yourself, than if this comes up after another garda vetting.

fuzzbizz
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by fuzzbizz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm

Minor offence? Seems like driving without a licence is severe. Regardless, they'll find out anyway, one presumes. Seems better for them to find out from you than from garda.

nojoyfrominis
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by nojoyfrominis » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm

It is not a minor offence. It may impact your application but you still need to inform them and write that you regret your action to show remorse. Hopefully they won’t take it against your good character requirement. Good luck

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by johnpromise01 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:53 pm

nojoyfrominis wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm
It is not a minor offence. It may impact your application but you still need to inform them and write that you regret your action to show remorse. Hopefully they won’t take it against your good character requirement. Good luck

You mean it may impact my application even if I pay the fine ticket and let them know myself? :cry:

Eddie80
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by Eddie80 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:11 pm

johnpromise01 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:53 pm
nojoyfrominis wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm
It is not a minor offence. It may impact your application but you still need to inform them and write that you regret your action to show remorse. Hopefully they won’t take it against your good character requirement. Good luck

You mean it may impact my application even if I pay the fine ticket and let them know myself? :cry:
I don't think so. But pay the fine and forward a copy of the receipt to them with an explanation as well. Lastly, I will advice you to caution yourself henceforth not to commit any further offence be it minor or not, has adviced by the lovely Garda!

ailA2019
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by ailA2019 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:40 pm

Unfortunately even you quickly go and pay, still driving unaccompanied pose a danger to themselves and other road users.

Unlikely even write a regret letter. It is an offence for a learner to drive unless accompanied by a fully licensed driver.

While everyone may have different circumstances.

I know someone who had stopped 4 months after applied but the application was delay 39 months. Also In FOI, found 4 or 5 Garda vetting (once every 10 months).


So, wait for a ticket then inform your solicitor will tell you if affect or no.

littlerr
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by littlerr » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:44 pm

fuzzbizz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm
Minor offence? Seems like driving without a licence is severe. Regardless, they'll find out anyway, one presumes. Seems better for them to find out from you than from garda.
Driving unaccompanied is not the same as driving without a licence. It used to be de-facto ‘ok’ as most people had done that when they were on learner permit many years ago.

Of course, it’s not right. Especially since the tragic accident of Noel Clancy who was killed by an unaccompanied learner, which resulted in the introduction of the Clancy Amendment in 2018, Garda has been taking this more and more seriously.

There is nothing you can do right now. They won’t issue you with an FCPN until a few days or weeks later. Some Gardai may even wait for months before they register the offences on the PULSE system. You can’t pay for your FCPN until it has arrived.

You may send a note to the Citizenship department now but I don’t think that would help you in any way. They will simply hold up your application until you receive and pay for the offence. Better wait till you receive your FCPN, then pay it and inform INIS. Write an apology and hope for the best. Then it’s up to the Minister to determine how serious the offence is.

fuzzbizz
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by fuzzbizz » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:56 am

A lot of people like to hang on to the fiction that "provisional licence" is still a thing (they don't exist anymore) but if you drive alone, with only a learner's permit (a learner's permit is not a licence) that seems equivalent to driving without a licence. It's very, very clearly against the law.

Now, I suppose if you already have a foreign licence that complicates it slightly, though when I got my Irish learner's permit it was very clear that I was now forbidden from driving by myself, even with a valid foreign licence. (Though foreign licences are only observed if your stay is intended to be under a year)


littlerr wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:44 pm
fuzzbizz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm
Minor offence? Seems like driving without a licence is severe. Regardless, they'll find out anyway, one presumes. Seems better for them to find out from you than from garda.
Driving unaccompanied is not the same as driving without a licence. It used to be de-facto ‘ok’ as most people had done that when they were on learner permit many years ago.

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by johnpromise01 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am

ailA2019 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:40 pm
Unfortunately even you quickly go and pay, still driving unaccompanied pose a danger to themselves and other road users.

Unlikely even write a regret letter. It is an offence for a learner to drive unless accompanied by a fully licensed driver.

While everyone may have different circumstances.

I know someone who had stopped 4 months after applied but the application was delay 39 months. Also In FOI, found 4 or 5 Garda vetting (once every 10 months).


So, wait for a ticket then inform your solicitor will tell you if affect or no.
Oh my God. The person had stopped 4 months after applied but the application delayed for 39 months and 4 to 5 Garda vetting once every 10 months? Even after apology and paying the fine ticket? I give up already. I am hopeless now. This is my first time getting stopped and fine. I have prepared apology, only waiting for the ticket so I can pay. I was stupid and I have taken full responsibility. My application is 14 months with Citizenship already. So worst scenario I will get citizenship refusal for driving unaccompanied and fine. :cry:

Vorona
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by Vorona » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:53 am

johnpromise01 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am
Oh my God. The person had stopped 4 months after applied but the application delayed for 39 months and 4 to 5 Garda vetting once every 10 months? Even after apology and paying the fine ticket? I give up already. I am hopeless now. This is my first time getting stopped and fine. I have prepared apology, only waiting for the ticket so I can pay. I was stupid and I have taken full responsibility. My application is 14 months with Citizenship already. So worst scenario I will get citizenship refusal for driving unaccompanied and fine. :cry:
Call your nearest Garda station and explain that your have citizenship application in progress and that you wish to pay the fine. Send a letter to the Citizenship department and explain that the receipt will follow shortly. Your remorse will be taken into consideration. If you keep silent hoping that it will go unnoticed, then you're risking having this incident to be revealed to the Department from another garda report shoud they decide to request it.

Page 8 of the application form provides this:

"The onus is on each applicant to disclose all information and evidence to help demonstrate that he or she satisfies the conditions for a certificate of naturalisation, including being of good character. The Minister is not obliged to give advance notice of adverse information of which the applicant is already aware. Should adverse information come to light in the course of the processing of the application which the applicant could reasonable foresee could be taken into account, the Department will not correspond with the applicant on the matter. However, such information will be taken into consideration in the decision making process."

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by johnpromise01 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am

Vorona wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:53 am
johnpromise01 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am
Oh my God. The person had stopped 4 months after applied but the application delayed for 39 months and 4 to 5 Garda vetting once every 10 months? Even after apology and paying the fine ticket? I give up already. I am hopeless now. This is my first time getting stopped and fine. I have prepared apology, only waiting for the ticket so I can pay. I was stupid and I have taken full responsibility. My application is 14 months with Citizenship already. So worst scenario I will get citizenship refusal for driving unaccompanied and fine. :cry:
Call your nearest Garda station and explain that your have citizenship application in progress and that you wish to pay the fine. Send a letter to the Citizenship department and explain that the receipt will follow shortly. Your remorse will be taken into consideration. If you keep silent hoping that it will go unnoticed, then you're risking having this incident to be revealed to the Department from another garda report shoud they decide to request it.

Page 8 of the application form provides this:

"The onus is on each applicant to disclose all information and evidence to help demonstrate that he or she satisfies the conditions for a certificate of naturalisation, including being of good character. The Minister is not obliged to give advance notice of adverse information of which the applicant is already aware. Should adverse information come to light in the course of the processing of the application which the applicant could reasonable foresee could be taken into account, the Department will not correspond with the applicant on the matter. However, such information will be taken into consideration in the decision making process."

Thanks Vorona, but considering littlerr's point that they won't issue FCPN untill few days or weeks and some Garda may even wait for months before they register the offence on PULSE system, and I can't pay for FCPN until it has arrived.

They won’t issue you with an FCPN until a few days or weeks later. Some Gardai may even wait for months before they register the offences on the PULSE system. You can’t pay for your FCPN until it has arrived. And they will hold up my application until i receive and pay for the offence. Does it still make sense to let them know when I am yet to receive FCPN that will enable me pay? Maybe decision of my application may be around the corner and telling them now when I am still awaiting ticket may likely make them hold the application decision?

Vorona
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by Vorona » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:38 am

johnpromise01 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am
Thanks Vorona, but considering littlerr's point that they won't issue FCPN untill few days or weeks and some Garda may even wait for months before they register the offence on PULSE system, and I can't pay for FCPN until it has arrived.
I have already addressed this in the previous message. You can pay when you get a chance. This is not a main concern. The main concern is to make sure that Citizenship department is informed about the incident by you, not by Gardai report since you don't know if and when another report is requested on you. They will not tell you about it but will take this into account when making a decision.

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by johnpromise01 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:35 am

Still no FCPN arrive :( . Panicking my application :cry:

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by johnpromise01 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:19 pm

Thanks guys. So today I explained to my solicitor about the €80 fine last week. My solicitor said: "No it won't affect your application, Gardai only stopped you for unaccompanied and this is a minor issue and because you never had any issue with Gardai in the past. Your application will not hold on for months because of this, wait for the ticket and pay, then scan me copy of the receipt".

ailA2019
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by ailA2019 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:05 am

johnpromise01 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:19 pm
Thanks guys. So today I explained to my solicitor about the €80 fine last week. My solicitor said: "No it won't affect your application, Gardai only stopped you for unaccompanied and this is a minor issue and because you never had any issue with Gardai in the past. Your application will not hold on for months because of this, wait for the ticket and pay, then scan me copy of the receipt".
Sound good, pay the ticket then sent a copy of the receipt.
for safe, try to pass the driving test if your citizenship application still in progress inform INIS, will be a nice touch from you. Also, it is showing this offence will not happen again.
however, after you get a ticket maybe 3 to 4 months later. you can apply to the Gardaí for personal data then see what they held on the PULSE system. Good luck

johnpromise01
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Re: Citizenship Application Traffic Offence?

Post by johnpromise01 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:03 am

ailA2019 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:05 am
johnpromise01 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:19 pm
Thanks guys. So today I explained to my solicitor about the €80 fine last week. My solicitor said: "No it won't affect your application, Gardai only stopped you for unaccompanied and this is a minor issue and because you never had any issue with Gardai in the past. Your application will not hold on for months because of this, wait for the ticket and pay, then scan me copy of the receipt".
Sound good, pay the ticket then sent a copy of the receipt.
for safe, try to pass the driving test if your citizenship application still in progress inform INIS, will be a nice touch from you. Also, it is showing this offence will not happen again.
however, after you get a ticket maybe 3 to 4 months later. you can apply to the Gardaí for personal data then see what they held on the PULSE system. Good luck
Thanks.. That's why I am still waiting for the ticket to arrive.

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