Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

aneelrahim wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:30 am

Do anyone know is the court hearing the appeal today or no ?

It is supposed to be at 10:30 AM today but I cant find the information on any website if it is going to go ahead (whether they found 6 additional judges or not) and where to see the result of this appeal..

If someone has this information - could you please share?

Looks to be going ahead... it is on the list here.

It will be heard by Justice Birmingham, Justice Whelan, and Justice McGovern - all are existing Judges of the Court of Appeal.

Thank you! Was trying to look it up!
To think its going to go on in 30min!

markem wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am

Looks to be going ahead... it is on the list here.

It will be heard by Justice Birmingham, Justice Whelan, and Justice McGovern - all are existing Judges of the Court of Appeal.

Thank you so much for sharing this info! Fingers crossed we will get some news today!

markem wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am

Looks to be going ahead... it is on the list here.

It will be heard by Justice Birmingham, Justice Whelan, and Justice McGovern - all are existing Judges of the Court of Appeal.

Thanks Markem. Hopefully we will get some good news today

markem wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am

Looks to be going ahead... it is on the list here.

It will be heard by Justice Birmingham, Justice Whelan, and Justice McGovern - all are existing Judges of the Court of Appeal.

Hi Markam, I just check the page again and at the bottom, it is stated that below.

Friday the 15th October 2021
In Court 2, Court of Appeal Building
At 10.30 o'clock
For hearing
2019 344 Jones -v- Minister for Justice and Equality (1.5h)

aneelrahim wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:27 am

markem wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am

Looks to be going ahead... it is on the list here.

It will be heard by Justice Birmingham, Justice Whelan, and Justice McGovern - all are existing Judges of the Court of Appeal.

Hi Markam, I just check the page again and at the bottom, it is stated that below.

Friday the 15th October 2021
In Court 2, Court of Appeal Building
At 10.30 o'clock
For hearing
2019 344 Jones -v- Minister for Justice and Equality (1.5h)

Weird! I heard on radio nova around 11am , they are proceeding with the case

aneelrahim wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:27 am

Hi Markem, I just check the page again and at the bottom, it is stated that below.

Friday the 15th October 2021
In Court 2, Court of Appeal Building
At 10.30 o'clock
For hearing
2019 344 Jones -v- Minister for Justice and Equality (1.5h)

Who knows what that is - I never looked down the page after I found the first entry. According to Immigrant Council of Ireland they were attending court today.

We're attending the Court of Appeal today & will respond to the ruling. 1000s of people apply for #Citizenship every year & in our globalised society people travel for work & personal reasons. We need a more realistic & fair understanding of this in our immigration system

aneelrahim wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:27 am

markem wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am

Looks to be going ahead... it is on the list here.

It will be heard by Justice Birmingham, Justice Whelan, and Justice McGovern - all are existing Judges of the Court of Appeal.

Hi Markam, I just check the page again and at the bottom, it is stated that below.

Friday the 15th October 2021
In Court 2, Court of Appeal Building
At 10.30 o'clock
For hearing
2019 344 Jones -v- Minister for Justice and Equality (1.5h)

You are posting wrong information. Please, people, try to don't create controversy, this is something serious. They did have the session schedule for today.

Court of Appeal: 8th October 2019 Civil

In Court 2, Court of Appeal Building
The President
Ms Justice Whelan
Mr Justice McGovern
At 10.30 o'clock
For hearing
2019 344 Jones -v- Minister for Justice and Equality (1.5h)


The other dates written there is the schedule for the following years. They have all the calendar there.

robber wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:30 am

aneelrahim wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:27 am

markem wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am

Looks to be going ahead... it is on the list here.

It will be heard by Justice Birmingham, Justice Whelan, and Justice McGovern - all are existing Judges of the Court of Appeal.

Hi Markam, I just check the page again and at the bottom, it is stated that below.

Friday the 15th October 2021
In Court 2, Court of Appeal Building
At 10.30 o'clock
For hearing
2019 344 Jones -v- Minister for Justice and Equality (1.5h)

You are posting wrong information. Please, people, try to don't create controversy, this is something serious. They did have the session schedule for today.

Court of Appeal: 8th October 2019 Civil

In Court 2, Court of Appeal Building
The President
Ms Justice Whelan
Mr Justice McGovern
At 10.30 o'clock
For hearing
2019 344 Jones -v- Minister for Justice and Equality (1.5h)


The other dates written there is the schedule for the following years. They have all the calendar there.

I haven't put the wrong info. Whatever is on the page I just mention it.

They already mentioned in news that if they don't get additional judges it will go to 2021.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.4039312

& while we await the decision lives are in limbo: no decisions are being given & all #CitizenshipCeremonies currently on hold. Would be better for @DeptJusticeIRL to amend legislation as initially indicated & not await court ruling

Court reserved judgement... So no decision for now... that's disappointing!

What does this all mean. That they couldn’t come up with a decision? I don’t understand this


This is so disgusting

Omad24 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:14 pm

What does this all mean. That they couldn’t come up with a decision? I don’t understand this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_decision

Reserved decision is a legal term. After the hearing of a trial or the argument of a motion a judge might not immediately deliver a decision, but instead take time to review evidence and the law and deliver a decision at a later time, usually in a written form.

So what does it really mean?
What about those applicants whos appications are in inis office and already got app number and went to second stage? Will they continue to proceed applicants case , or everything is just stopped?

Details about today hearing in news

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingn ... 55712.html

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No but I would think it will be given within weeks.</p>&mdash; Mary Carolan (@MaryCarolanIT) <a href=" 8, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So no cermoney befor the election if the decision needs weeks then will minister need week to solve this bill and he maybe put bill or not . Who from goverment want to lying to us

Amending law should be taken up rather than waiting for this hearing...doubt it will come up in near future !

Guys,

We are waiting for long and many hoped that we get some news today. This might not happen until 2021. Can we open up another online dispute or any thoughts on how we can go around?

Bealtaine wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:17 am

aneelrahim wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:46 pm

Nice article in news about ceremony

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... -1.4039191

Thank you for that! Stages are clearly defined in that article and I was shocked when I discovered that there are only 61 people in Tipperary going through ALL applications for citizenship! Out of these, 8 man the phone line twice a week... makes all the sense in the world! They defo need to recruit more!

Surely, on average, to make 'some' progress on say half-a-dozen applications a day per person working, so that's 30 per week, given say 20% staff on holiday at any one time (that leaves 49), it wouldn't be unreasonable for 'some' progress to be made on fifteen hundred or so applications per week in total? That's over 6k applications a month.

How many applications are there in the system, 16k according to this article. And that's primarily due to the missing ceremony last week, usually it's 12.5k in the system. So they easily should be able to cycle at least once through all the applications every quarter and have a nice life at the same time.

But what we have seen, from those that received copies of their files under FOI requests, is that files can just sit for a year or more, forgotten about - even in cases where there is no outstanding issue. To me it sounds like there's a disorganised & low productivity culture in the office.

Very low work rates, I also think it's laughable for them to blame Brexit on a so-called backlog.

You could argue figures have risen in UK applications but they are still lower than other nationalities applications.

The system is farcical IMHO.

Sorry in advance if this creates a topic within a topic, but it is still related to the ruling:

There were three arguments presented at today's Court of Appeal hearing. To paraphrase:

1. Jones (appellant): Spent 100 days out of Ireland in the year before he applied, thinks this is reasonable, and that the Minister should apply discretion and give him citizenship.
2. Minister: Has been applying discretion to time out of Ireland (6 weeks or 42 days), wants to continue doing this, and thinks Jones' 100 days is too long.
3. High Court Judge: Doesn't think the law allows the Minister any discretion and that continuous residence means no time out of Ireland at all.

I disagree with Jones. 100 days just seems to long to me. UK, as an example, allows up to 90 days.

I therefore agree with the Minister that 100 days is too long. However, rather than discretion, I'd prefer to see a clear policy or regulation so it's more black and white.

I think the Judge was pedantic and narrow in defining continuous. However, in comparison to other countries' citizenship policies and processes, Ireland is so opaque and vague that it needs an overhaul and for these type of requirements to be written down. It would make it a lot easier for applicants if there were clear definitions of processes and requirements (... and I think it would make it easier for INIS as well). However, I would have preferred this debate didn't happen in the middle of my application!

Thank you for all your updates.
Are we in a complete limbo for an undefinite amount of time or is there a next date for a possible update on the matter? Especially for those ones just waiting for the ceremony.
Thank you.