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delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:40 pm

By Indian origin, I meant Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi married to Latvian/Lithuanian/Romanian, as these cases have been on news lately. Also, it appears that after brexit people mainly from the Indian subcontinent (who are now British National) are using Ireland as a backdoor by exercising EU treaty rights, bringing their family in and then moving back to UK. If the applicant happens to have name Abdul or Mohammed or wears a scarf then add a few months extra in processing. All of these are my opinions, I don't have facts :lol: But again I want to say if someone is already living in the country and have earned their privilege to citizenship, they deserve to get a decision within a reasonable time. There is no excuse for delaying the application and keeping the applicant in limbo for such a long period.

What about going to the ceremony venue anyways and hold a few placards showing the misery of people who have been not treated fairly by the department? If a petition is needed to be signed at least 70% of the attendees of the ceremony might have suffered from this situation already and will definitely sign that petition. I can already think of a few slogans;

* We are equally law-abiding residents and we deserve to be treated fairly;
* Is stress, anxiety, and depression part of the citizenship test? If not why are you keeping us waiting for years?
* Citizenship application process followed by the Department of Justice & Equality is neither Just nor treats everyone equally.
* My tax returns are processed within 21 days then why citizenship application takes years to get processed.
* Preserve the integrity of the system to grant Citizenship but not at the cost of the integrity of the applicant.

P.S: Perhaps I have too much time in hand nowadays and taking out my stress by writing here ;)

Statusquo73
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Lebanon

Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Statusquo73 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:00 pm

If you prepare a petition I am in.
I was thinking of this idea.. We should act. Or a protest...

kseni
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Posts: 61
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Russia

Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by kseni » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:24 pm

My only reasonable explanation outside of sham marriages theory is that earlier this year my eu4fam has expired and I’ve applied for a new one, which was set to be decided upon next Monday but now is being delayed by two weeks. So maybe they wanted Eu treaty rights dept to provide their decision first and then use it in citizenship application.
Needless to say that applying in jan 2017 and expecting 6 mo processing times I didn’t think t will reach the point I’d be renewing eu4fam at all.
But ye if RU in work permit + marriage to a DE counts as red sparrow for them, I dunno ;))

Cz2015
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Ireland

Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Cz2015 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:07 pm

Hi
All finally after a long wait my wait is finally over I received my letter requesting GNIB 950 and passport photos on Friday dated the 7th November good luck to all be patient there is a light at the end of the very very dark tunnel.

abelekhoh
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Ireland

Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by abelekhoh » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:24 pm

Cz2015 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:07 pm
Hi
All finally after a long wait my wait is finally over I received my letter requesting GNIB 950 and passport photos on Friday dated the 7th November good luck to all be patient there is a light at the end of the very very dark tunnel.
Cz2015 Congratulation Man
it is very good news it means they are keep sending the approvals

Taki
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Ireland

Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Taki » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:35 pm

Zc2015, congratulations to you, when did u applied?

Mal111
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Mal111 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:47 pm

Cz2015 did they gave u 10 days deadline to submit 950 and gnib card?

2pac4ever
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by 2pac4ever » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:33 pm

Paddy_Leprechaun wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:40 pm
By Indian origin, I meant Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi married to Latvian/Lithuanian/Romanian, as these cases have been on news lately. Also, it appears that after brexit people mainly from the Indian subcontinent (who are now British National) are using Ireland as a backdoor by exercising EU treaty rights, bringing their family in and then moving back to UK. If the applicant happens to have name Abdul or Mohammed or wears a scarf then add a few months extra in processing. All of these are my opinions, I don't have facts :lol: But again I want to say if someone is already living in the country and have earned their privilege to citizenship, they deserve to get a decision within a reasonable time. There is no excuse for delaying the application and keeping the applicant in limbo for such a long period.

What about going to the ceremony venue anyways and hold a few placards showing the misery of people who have been not treated fairly by the department? If a petition is needed to be signed at least 70% of the attendees of the ceremony might have suffered from this situation already and will definitely sign that petition. I can already think of a few slogans;

* We are equally law-abiding residents and we deserve to be treated fairly;
* Is stress, anxiety, and depression part of the citizenship test? If not why are you keeping us waiting for years?
* Citizenship application process followed by the Department of Justice & Equality is neither Just nor treats everyone equally.
* My tax returns are processed within 21 days then why citizenship application takes years to get processed.
* Preserve the integrity of the system to grant Citizenship but not at the cost of the integrity of the applicant.

P.S: Perhaps I have too much time in hand nowadays and taking out my stress by writing here ;)
Good point @Paddy_Leprechaun I’d certainly encourage you to file a formal complaint first by sending an email to INIScustomercomplaints@justice.ie then they’ll tell you what’s really happening with your applications and hopefully explain the delays. Sometimes you have to act to get some rewards as sitting down and moaning won’t help speed things up. I think in this case, the fact there is no communication from INIS with regard to the delay is very frustrating.

If you’re not satisfied by their reply then a much better option would be to bring the banners at the next citizenship ceremony. This way, you’ll receive the necessary media attention that your cases deserved and hopefully a potential politician will cease that opportunity to raise awareness about the unfairness of the citizenship process. We all know what Peter Casey did at the last presidential elections to get 20% of votes.

Sometimes, people should be very vocal in order to get some justice. A friend of mine had his re-entry visa delayed by about 2 months for no apparent reason. He then emailed INIS to complain and within 48 hours, his passport was returned to him with the re-entry visa in it.

2pac4ever
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by 2pac4ever » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:35 pm

nad2107 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:55 am
I don't think its just romanian to indian, or other eu to india, pakistani, bangladeshi. I think its all south east asain countries. Me and my husband are both of asian origin and I am a british passport holder. We applied in april 2017 and not hear anything since, just one letter which was sent back with documents last year in June and nothing what so ever since then. He called them last week and was told they are waiting for some external information and I have no idea what this external information they require is. As surely in this day and age people send information alot quicker then nearly 2 years.

So fed up that we are seriously considering giving up and moving elsewhere as this is just ridiculous. He even applied for the 10 year thing and they asked for lots of stuff which we sent, then they asked for another bunch of stuff which was also send and now again they have asked for the same stuff which was sent to them the first time.

Totally incompetent staff its such a fiasco the whole process is a complete shambles.

We have a child, are both from indian sub continent, earning a decent salary, living in same place for 7 years, no criminal offense, never taken social but still no response from them.

I keep thinking about forming a petition to get signatures to get them to form a decision for people who have been pending for over 12 months but someone on this forum suggested would just be wasting my time as nationality is a privilege crap!!

There must be something that we can do. Any ideas any one.
I don't think they're doing some profiling in this process, it would be quite dangerous from INIS as it can backfire spectacularly. When you look at the top 4 nationalities granted Irish citizenship, India and Pakistan is in the top 2 so you can't really say that they're filtering based on the nationality.

rockyguy
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by rockyguy » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:50 pm

Paddy_Leprechaun wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:40 pm
By Indian origin, I meant Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi married to Latvian/Lithuanian/Romanian, as these cases have been on news lately. Also, it appears that after brexit people mainly from the Indian subcontinent (who are now British National) are using Ireland as a backdoor by exercising EU treaty rights, bringing their family in and then moving back to UK. If the applicant happens to have name Abdul or Mohammed or wears a scarf then add a few months extra in processing. All of these are my opinions, I don't have facts :lol: But again I want to say if someone is already living in the country and have earned their privilege to citizenship, they deserve to get a decision within a reasonable time. There is no excuse for delaying the application and keeping the applicant in limbo for such a long period.

What about going to the ceremony venue anyways and hold a few placards showing the misery of people who have been not treated fairly by the department? If a petition is needed to be signed at least 70% of the attendees of the ceremony might have suffered from this situation already and will definitely sign that petition. I can already think of a few slogans;

* We are equally law-abiding residents and we deserve to be treated fairly;
* Is stress, anxiety, and depression part of the citizenship test? If not why are you keeping us waiting for years?
* Citizenship application process followed by the Department of Justice & Equality is neither Just nor treats everyone equally.
* My tax returns are processed within 21 days then why citizenship application takes years to get processed.
* Preserve the integrity of the system to grant Citizenship but not at the cost of the integrity of the applicant.

P.S: Perhaps I have too much time in hand nowadays and taking out my stress by writing here ;)
I am in ..We all should protest against them and sign the petition this will definitely build some pressure on them and i have some local person who has some good relationship with ministers so i am going to meet on monday morning they listen to this kind of problems.

Cz2015
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Posts: 55
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Ireland

Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Cz2015 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:50 am

Taki wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:35 pm
Zc2015, congratulations to you, when did u applied?
I originally applied in September 2015 than two years later there was a mix up in dates and basically had to apply again so applied in May 2017 and approval was dated 7th November 2018

Cz2015
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Ireland

Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Cz2015 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:52 am

Mal111 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:47 pm
Cz2015 did they gave u 10 days deadline to submit 950 and gnib card?
Yes 10 days to submit what is need. sending them all today I’m hopeful that I would be included in this ceremony even though I doubt it very much.

Mal111
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Mal111 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:53 am

on your approval letterdid they gave you 10 days to submit 950 gnib and photos?

Mal111
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Mal111 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:14 am

sorry I see you answer up there

just as I thought they are still sending approvals and people might be invited to this ceremony
in past I didn't see that people were receiving approval in the ceremony month.

Makhtar8155
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Makhtar8155 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:13 pm

Hi guys I think best solution at the moment is to protest in front of ceremony could solve our problem.
What do u think 8)

Mal111
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Mal111 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm

makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!

Hello001
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Hello001 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:19 pm

Mal111 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm
makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!
well said @Mal111 :D
@makhtar, be patient and just pray/hope to get yours soon.

Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:40 pm

Mal111 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm
makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!
Mal111, I beg to differ on some points here. Everyone in Ireland is allowed to do a peaceful assembly and express their opinion. As far I understood (not a legal expert) that as long as you call it a peaceful assembly rather than a protest you are grand and there should not be an issue with police.
Also, I have a different opinion on ruining the day for fellow applicants. In fact, all those fellow applicants must also raise their voice so what suffering they have to face, other should not be facing in future. Here everyone might have a different opinion, but I can promise that whenever I get it, I won't shy away to raise my voice against this awful system. But till the time I get it, I am still a coward ;)

But at the same time, I agree with you that things can go horribly wrong as well. Perhaps, asking some NGO or politicians who are known to raise their voice on public concerns to do a peaceful assembly on your behalf is a good idea.

rockyguy
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by rockyguy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:18 am

Mal111 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm
makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!
I agree with your Makhtar. Protest is a good thing but doing on the ceremony day will be totally counterproductive. I am the one who's waiting here longer than anyone else. Applied since june 2016 and recently got "advanced stage" letter. I contacted some well knows lawyer in Dublin and he advised me to go got judicial review. I know my case is simple and straight so why the hell should i wait for 3 years for just a bloody decision. One of my friend also did the same thing and his citizenship was refused for some reason. he challenged the decision and after 1-2 months he got his approval and going to his ceremony today. Believe me they are not going to approve our files unless we don't take legal action against them which is Judicial Review.

Stress
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Stress » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:44 pm

Rockguy i am with you we can go for judicial review.. i am also waiting for since august 2016

Statusquo73
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Statusquo73 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:23 pm

Hi Guys,

I would suggest that we should contact a journalist. For example, I have noticed that there is a journalist that wrote about Visa appointment system sold to the student. I think it was one month ago. That news created a big awareness between people. Inis had to respond to those allegations and acted fast for resolving the issue.

In my personal opinion Media is the strongest tool/weapon. We should write to a journalist in relation to our issue. Actually, this could be a good topic for them.

What do you think guys? Let's write a powerful statement to a journalist and let them bring this to the Irish public. This is an unlawful situation.
We do not deserve this. They should just give us an answer within 1 year. YES OR NO. That's it.

I happy to collaborate with you if you are into it.

max307
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by max307 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:55 pm

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to add my point of view to the thread.

First of all, I do get your frustrations and understand why some of you are anxious waiting to get approved or not. It's certainly a very stressing process to go through.

The only piece I'm struggling to understand is what are you protesting against? What are the basis of your complaint? I don't want to sound like a broken record but legally speaking no one is profiling or doing anything illegal – naturalisation in Ireland is a privilege and not a right and the Minister is granting citizenship at his/her own discretion, that should be clear for everyone at this point. No peaceful demonstration, protest or media outlet will force the Irish government to expedite any application for naturalisation because naturalisation itself is not a right so no one is violating any of your rights or the rights or those that are still waiting since 2016.

On the government side of the argument they can easily justify delay on applications with the 200 illegal immigrants that have been deported in 2018 as a result of Operation Vantage for suspected marriages of convenience and immigration fraud. Unfortunately if you are from South East Asia expect your application to go through under considerable scrutiny and that's not profiling or illegal, the majority of deported nationals under Operation Vantage are from countries in South East Asia.

Since you are the weakest link on this chain I would suggest to be patient, wait and reply to all their request of extra documentation as soon as possible. If you have a clean record then it's only matter of time before you all are Irish citizens.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:30 pm

max307 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:55 pm
Hey everyone,

I just wanted to add my point of view to the thread.

First of all, I do get your frustrations and understand why some of you are anxious waiting to get approved or not. It's certainly a very stressing process to go through.

The only piece I'm struggling to understand is what are you protesting against? What are the basis of your complaint? I don't want to sound like a broken record but legally speaking no one is profiling or doing anything illegal – naturalisation in Ireland is a privilege and not a right and the Minister is granting citizenship at his/her own discretion, that should be clear for everyone at this point. No peaceful demonstration, protest or media outlet will force the Irish government to expedite any application for naturalisation because naturalisation itself is not a right so no one is violating any of your rights or the rights or those that are still waiting since 2016.

On the government side of the argument they can easily justify delay on applications with the 200 illegal immigrants that have been deported in 2018 as a result of Operation Vantage for suspected marriages of convenience and immigration fraud. Unfortunately if you are from South East Asia expect your application to go through under considerable scrutiny and that's not profiling or illegal, the majority of deported nationals under Operation Vantage are from countries in South East Asia.

Since you are the weakest link on this chain I would suggest to be patient, wait and reply to all their request of extra documentation as soon as possible. If you have a clean record then it's only matter of time before you all are Irish citizens.
Hi Max,
it seems like you really do like to copy/paste this statement about naturalisation being a privilege, not a right ;) Have seen quite many posts by you always quoting this statement.

I guess what you are struggling to understand is the basic difference between the discretion of Minister and selective exercise of that discretion. Minister is right to refuse any application by giving a valid reason and then apply that reason to all applicants in that scenario. But If the department selectively exercises its rights on few and keep others in the limbo then it is a question of being unfairly treated which is a violation of basic rights. All judicial reviews against INIS are based on it. Nobody here is forcing the department to accept or deny an application, the issue is not making a decision within a reasonable time. We have at least a few examples shared here where a judicial review enforce department to make a decision. See this example https://www.irishlegal.com/article/high ... roceedings


She lost the case on recovering the cost of judicial review by managed to get a writ to enforce department taking a decision on the application and finally the department approved it in a haste.


As suggested by most of the people on this forum that the judicial review puts pressure on the department and at the same time department wants the judiciary to take action on difficult decisions so they have covered themselves of any future issue if they make a wrong decision.

The protest seems an easier way to demonstrate frustration before judicial review as the judicial review is costly and there is no guarantee to recover the costs even if you win your case.

max307
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by max307 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:31 pm

True that! :D You will be surprised how easily people forget that very own statement on a daily basis.

I do respect your point but do you or anyone in this forum has actual proof of that "selective exercise of discretion"? Or is it just speculation? I feel like this topic of delay in applications is becoming a conspiracy theory and that's causing even more distress to those patiently waiting.

Please do not take my questions as a personal attack but what "basic rights" are being violated here? The rights of non EU national are not being violated at any stage during the processing of the application; they are able to work, travel, study, get married, their kids are Irish citizens, etc. Is it a "basic right" not to have to wait for an application to be processed?

In a 2011 ruling the High Court determined that even though the Minister has “ABSOLUTE” discretion in respect of applications for naturalisation, that discretion does not extend to making people wait indefinitely, and without explanation, for a decision in their case. The government can get around that very easily, they are providing explanations on your application every time you are inquiring over the phone or e-mail, now if the explanation isn't what you want to hear that's a different topic all together.

I feel like unless INIS is doing something illegal protests, media outlets articles and judicial reviews are only going to cause even more harm because the government will reply with extra scrutiny on a department already short on staff and resources, hence longer turn around times.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:27 pm

Nothing personal, all discussions here are efforts to try to shed more lights on issues face and express personal opinions. In my opinion;

It is already selective exercise of discretion if someone else who applied after me and gets his/her application approved.

As an applicant to a state department (public service funded by taxpayers), I deserve to get my application processed within a reasonable time. Keeping uncertainty over an excessive period of time is a violation of my basic right as a taxpayer. If it was not then there must not be court rulings to force department make a decision. There could be people who are not allowed to work or travel before a decision is made.

I agree with the court ruling, exercise the absolute discretion in making a decision but do make a decision within a reasonable time. There are examples where the court gave a deadline.

If the department is not doing anything illegal then there shouldn't be any court rulings against the department at all, but that is not the reality. There are many rulings against the department asked to make a decision within a timeframe or reversed a decision.

Protests can be counterproductive sometimes but not always, but at least it will bring attention to everybody that there is something need to be corrected. Nowadays there is a big reform agenda within the Ministry of Justice & Equality (splitting them into two, perhaps this will help to improve). A classic example of using protests, naming and shaming to get a decision from the state is the case of xxxxxxx (just google her tweets). She used every possible media to shame the department and her mysterious silence before the September Ceremony shows that she got what she wanted to...

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