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Dept/Justice EU1 Problems? Guide to dealing with them.

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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zen63
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Dept/Justice EU1 Problems? Guide to dealing with them.

Post by zen63 » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:10 am

This guide is a work in progress based on my experiences with the Department Of Justice in Ireland. It may not be fully correct, but I will update it as often as possible when I get newer information.

This guide specifically applies to EU-1 applications for non-EU spouses of EU citizens. It may be applicable to other cases also.
1. To exercise your treaty rights in Ireland you must submit an EU1 form as per European Directive 2004/38/EC. The Department of Justice MUST give you a decision WITHIN 6 months. If they do not see resolutions below.

2. The Department of Justice WILL return your passport and documents to you. Ask via a registered letter, if you do not receive a response within two weeks - see resolutions below.

3. The Department of Justice is required by European Directive 2004/38/EC to grant any non EU spouse of an EU Citizen a 5 YEAR residence card and passport stamp. The Irish law is currently at odds with this, so they seem to give one year stamps. If you get anything other than a five year stamp see resolutions below.
RESOLUTIONS
1. Make sure that all letters sent to the Dept/Justice are registered, dated, and copied - you will need this proof at later stages.

2. Verify your individual legal rights with the EU Citizens SignPost service at http://europa.eu.int/citizensrights/sig ... dex_en.htm. This is a FREE legal advice centre for EU citizens, they will confirm that the Dept/Justice is acting incorrectly.

3. Complete a SOLVIT complaint and attach the information provided by the SignPost service. SOLVIT is designed to deal with complaints regarding EU legislation not being correctly followed/implemented. There is a specific Irish department and they are well aware of the problems. http://europa.eu.int/solvit/. These people are quick and good to deal with.

4. Send a REGISTERED complaint to Kevin O'Sullivan, Immigration Policy Division, Irish Naturalization Immigration Service, Department of Justice Equality & Law Reform, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2. He is the head civil servant in this division. Ask NICELY that they grant your correct rights as specified by EU SignPost and EU Directive 2004/38/EC and that they do so in an EXPIDITED MANNER. Copy this letter to SOLVIT.

(I am at this stage currently after a further two weeks I will take the next steps)

5. Send an official complaint to the Irish Ombudsman including all documentation which has been sent and received to far. Copy this letter to Kevin O'Sullivan again. http://ombudsman.gov.ie/en/

6. Two weeks later send an official complaint to the European Commission including the dates of all complaints so far and any responses which you may receive. http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/compl ... dex_en.htm. Copy this again to Kevin O'Sullivan.
--------

There are further measures including the European Ombudsman, Petitioning the European Parliament, and for Ireland - the Freedom of Information (to determine how a decision was reached) may have some interesting effects. I will look into these a little later.

Please see the following link for other resolutions:
http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/your_legal_ ... dex_en.htm

Please help me with updates - and post your own experiences.

zen63
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Post by zen63 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:30 pm

SOLVIT have asked for copies of our passports and marriage certificate so that they can move the case forward with the Dept/Justice.

Fingers crossed we may get some progress on this in the new year!

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Re: Dept/Justice EU1 Problems? Guide to dealing with them.

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:09 am

I like this post. It is very clear and I think the methodology applies to a lot more than EU1.
zen63 wrote:
The Irish law is currently at odds with this, so they seem to give one year stamps. If you get anything other than a five year stamp see resolutions below.
Irish law seems to say that the Residence card should be issued for 5 years. Is there other Irish law that applies also?
S.I. No. 226 of 2006
European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006
(this implements Directive/2004/38/EC in Ireland)

Validity of residence card
8. (1) Subject to Regulation 20, the period of validity of a residence card shall be equivalent to the envisaged period of residence in the State of the Union citizen of whom the recipient of the card is a family member, or not less than 5 years from the date of issue of the card, whichever is the lesser period.

zen63
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Post by zen63 » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:47 pm

Sorry for the lack of updates on this - I was finally away on Honeymoon with my wife :d

I have got a response from the Dept/Justice which confirms that the Irish interpretation of the law is incorrect(ish) - I am just home, so I will post the full text and my next steps later on Monday - sleep is needed first :D

zen63
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Post by zen63 » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:02 pm

I have now received a letter from the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (Dept/Justice).

The letter is from Kevin O'Sullivan - The Principal Officer in charge of Immigration Policy.

It took a little over a month to receive this letter - the text follows:
The position is as you state in your correspondence, i.e. that Ireland does not interpret the Directive as granting EU Treaty Rights to persons who have not previously been lawfully resident in another Member State.

The circumstances of your wife’s case are however being examined, and we will be in touch with you when a further determination has been made.
I have referred this matter back to SOLVIT for advice as I wish to pursue the matter further. This is essentially a written and signed document confirming that Ireland does not grant EU1 rights in the first instance for the spouses of EU citizens resident in the state.

I will update the thread further when the (prompt) SOLVIT get back to me :D

zen63
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Post by zen63 » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:11 pm

Irish law seems to say that the Residence card should be issued for 5 years. Is there other Irish law that applies also?

The Dept/Jus use Regulations 3(2) of European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 to remove their EU obligations in the case of all but those legally resident elsewhere in the EU already.

I am hoping that SOLVIT will further clarify this matter.

zen63
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Post by zen63 » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:46 pm

SOLVIT are further reviewing the case and following the Dept/J letter will seek further clarification.

I'm still in a wait and see position :(

Will update when I have more more news.

brownbonno
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Post by brownbonno » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:20 pm

Its quite sad to note that decision/notifications are delayed or stopped because there is a a court action.This court action is not an injunction,therefore there is no corrolation between the two events in the face of the law.
The problem with the Irish government is the interpretation of the EU Directives.It is a basic understanding,if a spouse(non EU) of an an EU citizen land in the state with D visa.That should allow the non EU to work pending the processing of the EU1 application which is a mere confirmation of exercising the Treaty rights.It is unlawful to keep the non EU out of the job market when the rights inherited from the EU citizen is all retrospectively approved when the D visa is issued.
With due respect to the authority,more education/training is required.This was supposed to be done before transposing the Directives to Irish nation law.

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Post by joesoap101 » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:39 pm

They are fully aware of the rules. It has more to do with them being selective in how they apply them. This is a very old problem in Irish government institutions. They will fight to the bitter end to prevent people from acquiring additional rights.

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Post by dnt » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:27 pm

zen63 Did you and your wife live together in another EU country before coming to Ireland?

zen63
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Post by zen63 » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:34 pm

Hi DNT,

Thats the core of the problem - she lived in Russia before we got married and only travelled to Ireland after our marriage.

The Irish interpretation of the law does not consider this situation to be worthy of a 5 year card as specified by the EU directive.

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Post by Ben » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:55 pm

zen63, any update on this?

astartes
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Post by astartes » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:18 pm

zen63 wrote:I have referred this matter back to SOLVIT for advice as I wish to pursue the matter further. This is essentially a written and signed document confirming that Ireland does not grant EU1 rights in the first instance for the spouses of EU citizens resident in the state.

I will update the thread further when the (prompt) SOLVIT get back to me :D
I would encourage everyone to report their horror experiences to SOLVIT. Ireland is in blatant violation of EU directives on this and other matters.

It is time for this country to stop playing games with the EU.

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Post by astartes » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:22 pm

brownbonno wrote:Its quite sad to note that decision/notifications are delayed or stopped because there is a a court action.This court action is not an injunction,therefore there is no corrolation between the two events in the face of the law.
The irish government is using every trick in the book to stall, delay and frustrate their legal obligation to implement EU directives.

Meanwhile they keep milking the EU for "development funds" which Ireland (one of the richest countries in the EU) doesn't need anymore.

This attitude is quite well-known in EU circles. People need to stop making excuses for this behavior, and pursue their EU citizen rights though all EU channels available. It is time that the Irish government be held accountable for its incessant violations of EU law.

It is also high time that the EU take a stronger stance against these shenanigans. Europe isn't stupid.

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Post by astartes » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:26 pm

joesoap101 wrote:They are fully aware of the rules. It has more to do with them being selective in how they apply them. This is a very old problem in Irish government institutions. They will fight to the bitter end to prevent people from acquiring additional rights.
Precisely. Irish institutions are corrupt to the core and they take the EU for imbeciles (Ireland is one of the most corrupt countries in the EU by almost any measures).
dnt wrote:Did you and your wife live together in another EU country before coming to Ireland?
This absurd requirement is in direct violation of EU directives. It was introduced simply in order to stall and harass.

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