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Do you think the decision for EU-1 will be in our favour ?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

What will be the Decision of the Eu-1 case ?

Yes the Decision will be in favour of EU-1
11
48%
No way . You guys will be kicked out. Remember Irish Hospitality has limits :(
6
26%
I have no Idea
6
26%
 
Total votes: 23

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:59 pm

[quote="archigabe"][quote]52. Having concluded at the end of the previous section that there is a certain degree of inconsistency in the case-law regarding the law applicable to third-country-national family members of migrant Community citizens, the preceding observations suggest, in addition, that the outcome of these cases is to a large extent determined by the particular facts of each case. In an area such as immigration where decisions taken by the competent authorities affect the lives of individuals in a most fundamental manner, there is, however, a great need for clarity as to the scope of rights and predictability as to the manner in which the law is applied. In order to create greater transparency and to promote legal certainty, a more systematic and structural approach to the interpretation and application of the relevant Community provisions is required.â€

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:11 pm

this is part of the judgement that one will need to tackle.

Regulatory framework
One of the fundamental tenets of the European Union in general and of the Internal Market in particular is the free movement of persons. This began with the free moment of workers. As a consequence, broadly speaking, citizens of European Union Member States and their families have the same access to the labour market in any other Member State as the citizens of that State. The right to free movement of workers is enshrined in Council Regulation (EEC) No. 1612/68 on the free movement of workers within the Union. Under this regulation, family members of EU citizens enjoy free access to the labour market regardless of their nationality.
The following are regarded as family members having free access to the labour market:
(i) A spouse or registered partner;
(ii) A child under the age of 21;
(iii) A child of the spouse of an EU citizen, where this child is under the age of 21;
(iv) A parent of an EU citizen, where this citizen is under the age of 21;
(v) A dependent relative in an ascending or descending line;
(vi) A dependent relative of the spouse of an EU citizen in an ascending or descending line;
(vii) A person living with an EU citizen in a common household;
(viii) A person who, for health reasons, is unable to look after himself with the personal care of the EU citizen.
Article 1(1) of Regulation (EEC) No. 1612/68 of the Council of 15th October 1968 on Freedom of Movement for Workers within the Community (OJ, English special Edition 1968 (II), p. 475 provides:-
“Any national of a Member State, shall, irrespective of his place of residence, have the right to take up an activity as an employed person and to pursue such activity, within the territory of another Member State in accordance with the provisions laid down by law, regulation or administrative action governing the employment of nationals of that State.â€

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:19 pm

runie80 wrote:Today is the official confirmation of the state of deniel !

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 95610.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0709/housing.html


That futher backs up my previous post with regards to economy !

10,000 jobs feared to be lost this year in construction sector.

P.S i know its not related to EU-1 directly but i just found this info so
posting that any new immigrant may be thinking of buying a house here be careful !

this also affects irish people. it is not a matter dealing with immigration, immigration is not fault for this or has anything to do with this. ireland is focusing more on research and development now due to it no longer been a country attractive enough for factories etc. i dont blame bertie when he said "all the moaners and gloomers about the economy, it dont know why they have not committed suicide"

of course there is going to be a slump in construction. the industry has been on going for over ten years. nothing lasts forever. what is your country doing at the moment? anyway a slump in construction is very muched welcomed as it will bring down the prices of houses and rents.

can you name any other countries how dont have ecomonic problems at the moment?

by the way i couldnt give a toss if you reply.

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:31 pm

runie80 wrote:I knew its easy to wind up the Average Irish

You prove my point !

I am not reading all your pointless replies!

Thanks for wasting time ! :lol:

right lad, your the one who throws up the devil faces when someone tries to be direct and honest with you with regard to how thingss are done in ireland. immigration council didn't tell you about issues that would be argued in the court by the state?

ah come on lad,all you have ever done is say "oh thats crap" "oh wasting time" where have you ever backed yourself up on anything. come to think of it its been a while since you contributed with any valid arguments with case law and the like.

how did you prove any point? winding up? nah man it seemed you were pretty pi*& when i made proposed some questions that were valid, but genuinely not intended to be senstive issues. the average irish person is not keen on windbags who have no substance or who are unable to hold their own court in a discussion. to be fair the others, at least one can argue, discuss and counter argue, you dont seem to want to know.

the average irish? how very racey of you, and i suppose your race is superior? (no race is or should ever be) that thinking i suppose would make many a friend. ever consider that one with that attitude and blind arrogance would easily make some ones blood boil. where you from anyway lad. if you feel like that and have a strong conviction what our economy will go bust becasue you will leave, why stay?

on the other hand, if the courts hold that you cant stay here solely on the basis of marriage to an eu, then why not just keep getting your work permits and clock up the 5 years needed for naturalisation or long/permanent residency?

come on runie discuss the case, and come back with a meaningful answer, i am sure you would hate to be left dumbstruct and speechless by an average irishman.

brownbonno
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Netherlands

Post by brownbonno » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:26 pm

walrusgumble,
Its a great efforts presenting case laws to butress your case.But the cases have to be brought to context.
Firtsly,the legality of the Irish transposition of the Directive 2004/38/EC especially artcle3(2).Which is not in line with the original EU commission text.
Secondly,the denial of the EU1 based on the Article3(2) is clearly a breach of the individual rights which can be brought to national courts for redress.Although,the individuals involved have not got the courage or the ''know how'' to put up the case.Remember,this refusal is an express expel order from the state(here comes your popular Article 8 ECHR)of the non EU citizen.
This is a forum where ordinary terms should be used for a better understanding to the forum members.
Point to note is that the ROI is one of the most beneficial of the European commission development funds.And the booming economy of the last couple of years from the America big corporation took advantages of the available manpower in Ireland.Now that things are taking a different shapes,i am sorry Ireland will be left with the P***** plumbers as the skilled migrants will be moving to next shop.
Finally,the construction of the Directive 2004/38/EC came from the MRAX case.
Knowledge is Power

BigAppleWoodenShoe
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Post by BigAppleWoodenShoe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:32 pm

Walrusgrumble, I don't know where the moderator is, but you seriously have to quit attacking people on this forum. If every post you write is going to end in a derogatory manner, then maybe you should stop posting here. People on this forum have faced a lot of challenges and yes, sometimes we need to vent our frustrations. But we are all here for the same reason at the end of the day. We want to have a home, and some security in our status. If you can't appreciate that, then why visit this site? Are you really that bored that you have nothing better to do than agitate people?
Dutch husband, American wife, applied for a residence card, after 7 months got a Stamp 4 visa for two years. :)

Static
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Post by Static » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:42 am

why argue? it's just silly. we are all in bad enough positions... if you fight, fight for your cause not over silly things.

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:24 am

brownbonno wrote:walrusgumble,
Its a great efforts presenting case laws to butress your case.But the cases have to be brought to context.
Firtsly,the legality of the Irish transposition of the Directive 2004/38/EC especially artcle3(2).Which is not in line with the original EU commission text.
Secondly,the denial of the EU1 based on the Article3(2) is clearly a breach of the individual rights which can be brought to national courts for redress.Although,the individuals involved have not got the courage or the ''know how'' to put up the case.Remember,this refusal is an express expel order from the state(here comes your popular Article 8 ECHR)of the non EU citizen.
This is a forum where ordinary terms should be used for a better understanding to the forum members.
Point to note is that the ROI is one of the most beneficial of the European commission development funds.And the booming economy of the last couple of years from the America big corporation took advantages of the available manpower in Ireland.Now that things are taking a different shapes,i am sorry Ireland will be left with the P***** plumbers as the skilled migrants will be moving to next shop.
Finally,the construction of the Directive 2004/38/EC came from the MRAX case.
i used art 8 as it would be one of the first pieces of legisaltion that would help an applicant like yourself. however, i also note one needs to be aware as it is a qualifiying right. i am sure you have read the entire judgement, and the part where the judge tries to explain why reg 3.2 is ok and explaining in detail the original point of the early regulations that dealt with freedom of movement and the rights of family reunification and what family reunification actually is

. But you are right, in the sense this case should not apply to all. i would strongly recommend people who can afford the price of a consulation (€50-80) to go and seek legal advice from a immigration specialist, because not every law that has come out of brussels has applied to countries such as ireland, uk, and denmark. in some cases opt out clauuses where obtained.

brownbonno, this is a legal argument, and as such case law and legislation is used to convinve courts of issues, you know that.

now as for your economic forcast, right i would be effected, but stop playing the amateur eddie hobbs or david whatshisname. but ireland being left with..... when skilled workers leave? ok, yes we will lose many a good migrant, maybe even irish. But it wont be the end of the world, our country has been in the sh*t before, it will rise up again. no one with any sense knew this boom was going to last forever. for f*ck sake it was in the early 1990's it was the tourism industry, then late 1990-2000's it was the construction industry, something else will come along so long as government policies are right. i doubt you were actually saying something along the lines of "ireland themselves have no skilled workers, they are all a bunch of idiots slckers" but if you were, well check out the amount that are in universities and I.T. colleges all over ireland.

many migrants Orignally (and i stress that point, i am sure many have great careers here) came to fill up the low paying unskilled work eg block layer, shop assistant, waiter etc.

one of the key reasons big american companies came here were
1. The amount of young and highly educated irish people available to work
2. english speaking country
3. share the same judicial system (bar uk, the rest is civil law, which have big implications with areas such as contract law)
4. generous tax incentiatives from the irish government (only way it could be done, how many other countries allow 12% corporation tax, eu want to stop us doing this)

so long as these companies are making profits here, their wont be much to be concerned, albeit keep a watch to ensure no complacency occurs.



everyone right notes irelands benefits from the eu. without it damn all would have happened. but spain had the same chance, what did they do with theirs? poland and eastern europe will be given the same benefits and within ten years they should finally be on its feet. ireland will be used as a precedent. so dont worry most people in ireland knew the big pay deal in europe would come to an end some day, and then we would be expected to join uk and germany etc in paying out. but we joined the eu for the interest of the nation, so understandably we are going to milk it for what its worth. if you think poland wont, that might be very naive.

i greatly acknowledge the work, commitment and skills of the migrant worker, but it was the people of this nation that started the boom. eu nations were entitled to be here anyway. look what i am saying is, ireland has come full circle, the last elections will probably the most important ones to date as we ask ourselves and our government "what now?" getting negative is a sure fine way of pi*(ing the success down the drain.

what is your point in talking about irish benefits in eu, if you mind i ask? what has it got to do with immigration, just sounds like vile jealousy. but why be jealous? many other countries will get their turn

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:33 am

BigAppleWoodenShoe wrote:Walrusgrumble, I don't know where the moderator is, but you seriously have to quit attacking people on this forum. If every post you write is going to end in a derogatory manner, then maybe you should stop posting here. People on this forum have faced a lot of challenges and yes, sometimes we need to vent our frustrations. But we are all here for the same reason at the end of the day. We want to have a home, and some security in our status. If you can't appreciate that, then why visit this site? Are you really that bored that you have nothing better to do than agitate people?
i will stop. but look at the attacks made against me, and the moanings about this country. i know you are understandably angry with things. but when someone comes here to contribute on the ins and outs of what goes on in state departments and irish law, dont shoot the messaginer. remarks like what runie have made to me about me and this country are not going to help him.i dont care who someone is, i believe in an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth. if i am going to get attacked by remarks of "average irish" well i am going give it back harder. but if i am going to get attacked on legal, practical aspects of these cases, well fair enough it can be discussed in a civil way. it cant be one rule for them and one rule for the other.

runie80
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Post by runie80 » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:37 am

Thanks BrownBono , BigAppleWoodenShoe & Static

You reiterated what i already mentioned with different words.

Brownbono I agree with your posts 100% as they are not Biased.

With regards to to fighting , static i think its Walrusgumble who is trying to provoke things and i believe you are right that we should use the energy to get our rights rather than engaging in any pointless verbal clash.

Let time be the judge !
In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

BigAppleWoodenShoe
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Post by BigAppleWoodenShoe » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:54 am

In any discussion-fight, even if you are agitated by a poster, you should know to not take the bait and ignore any attacks made on you as a person. There is no use in answering to a person if he doesn't want to change his mind, you should just let him have his say, and that's that.

In any 'fight' it doesn't matter who started, if you have taken the bait you're just as wrong. That's how things go on any other message board.

This also counts for Walrusgumble, if anyone here mocks Ireland, you don't have to take that bait, and you definitely don't have to use derogatory words to try and get your point across, you can see yourself as a messenger, but you are a very one-sided messenger if you bring your message in such a manner.

A discussion stops being a discussion if the parties stop listening to each other and stop being open to change their point of view.
Dutch husband, American wife, applied for a residence card, after 7 months got a Stamp 4 visa for two years. :)

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