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FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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a.s.b.o
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FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Post by a.s.b.o » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:40 pm

Please do not judge my question through the lens 'he thinks that his case is more compelling than ours' as your circumstances may differ significantly from mine. I will be thankful for your comments on the question as is.

Given: an FBR applicant, a 1 y.o child of mine. I an an Irish citizen in a process of surrendering my other citizenship. My other child is an Irish citizen, travelling solely on the Irish passport.

Due to delays with FBR the applicant is solely a non-Irish citizen deriving her non-Irish nationality through her mother. Because of the delays in both the FBR process and the effective ban on issuance of Irish visas still in place (the threshold for gaining of visa is very, very high and is non-transparent), the Irish citizen is unable to travel to Ireland to visit relatives and/or to plan potential relocation. In my initial assessment, that may amount to the breach of Irish citizen's right to travel to Ireland by excluding his/her underage dependents.

Any views on the merit of the claim and potential avenues for action?

littlerr
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Re: FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Post by littlerr » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:04 pm

No hard feelings, but there is no merits to your claim.

FBR is considered an *additional* benefit, offered to certain people due to their ancestry's roots with Ireland. Very few countries in the world allow this, and it is certainly not an automatic right at birth, therefore there is no legal basis on human rights breaches on either domestic laws or international laws. An FBR applicant is not an Irish citizen until they are registered, and the registration can take as long as it needs.

Any automatic rights to citizenship must always take priority over other citizenships from other means:

- Jus sanguinis: If the child has an automatic citizenship from at least one of the two parents, the child will inherit that citizenship;
- Jus soli: If the birth country recognises birthright citizenship, the child is an automatic citizen of that country;
- If neither of the above applies, and the birth country is a signatory of the 1954 UN convention on preventing statelessness, the birth country must recognise the child as a citizen of that country;
- If the birth country is not a signatory of the convention, the child is a stateless person.

In addition, you said you wanted to just 'visit relatives' and/or 'plan potential relocation', that is not something that can be justified when making human rights related claims. A valid claim would require that you apply for a long-stay visa (which your child is eligible for) or you have imperative family reasons (e.g. visiting relatives in serious diseases, which your child is again eligible for).

a.s.b.o
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Posts: 413
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Re: FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Post by a.s.b.o » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:42 pm

Thank you for a comprehensive answer even if I was hoping for a bit more protection for Irish citizens effectively not to be barred from moving to the country of their citizenship through barring of their family members from visiting, to be enshrined in the national/EU legislation.

So, do I understand correctly that the Minister will not err the law if Covid-related measures are used to bar a family member of the Irish nationaL from even applying for a short-term entry visa unless there is a dying family member in Ireland? Also, if read correctly, current measures cannot be used to restrict the non-EU family member of the Irish citizen from making a long-term visa application and to enter Ireland on its foot?

Many thanks

littlerr
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Re: FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Post by littlerr » Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:24 pm

a.s.b.o wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:42 pm
So, do I understand correctly that the Minister will not err the law if Covid-related measures are used to bar a family member of the Irish nationaL from even applying for a short-term entry visa unless there is a dying family member in Ireland? Also, if read correctly, current measures cannot be used to restrict the non-EU family member of the Irish citizen from making a long-term visa application and to enter Ireland on its foot?

Many thanks
Correct and correct.

There is no automatic right to family reunification for Irish citizens. This has always been the case. In order to sponsor a non-EU family member for a visa, the Irish citizen sponsor must satisfy certain financial requirements. Automatic family reunification rights apply to EU nationals (who are not Irish citizens) under EU Treaty Rights only.

On top of this comes the COVID restrictions. The current COVID rules mean short-term visit visas are suspended, unless you are a beneficiary of EU Treaty Rights. Long-term Join Family visas are not affected and you can still apply for such visas as long as you satisfy financial requirements.

a.s.b.o
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Re: FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Post by a.s.b.o » Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:50 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:24 pm
Correct and correct.

There is no automatic right to family reunification for Irish citizens. This has always been the case. In order to sponsor a non-EU family member for a visa, the Irish citizen sponsor must satisfy certain financial requirements. Automatic family reunification rights apply to EU nationals (who are not Irish citizens) under EU Treaty Rights only.

On top of this comes the COVID restrictions. The current COVID rules mean short-term visit visas are suspended, unless you are a beneficiary of EU Treaty Rights. Long-term Join Family visas are not affected and you can still apply for such visas as long as you satisfy financial requirements.
Thank you again. I believe I did query this on the other thread and you confirmed that Irish citizens, who exercised their treaty rights in another EU country, are treated as EU (and not as domestic) citizens upon return to Ireland. This, if understood correctly, would entail applying different (i.e. lower) financial requirements?

littlerr
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Re: FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Post by littlerr » Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:35 pm

Yes. You can exercise your treaty rights at a different EU country (which means you are no longer subject to the 40K euro financial requirement) and apply for a visa for your non-EU dependent in that country under EU Treaty rights. Once that's done, you have the rights to relocate back to Ireland while keeping you and your dependent's EU treaty rights.

These are all hypothetical conditions though. You would have to convince the officer that you were actually exercising your treaty rights in the other EU country and not simply for the purpose of relocation.

a.s.b.o
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Re: FBR delay and Irish citizen's human rights breach

Post by a.s.b.o » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:19 pm

littlerr wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:35 pm
Yes. You can exercise your treaty rights at a different EU country (which means you are no longer subject to the 40K euro financial requirement) and apply for a visa for your non-EU dependent in that country under EU Treaty rights. Once that's done, you have the rights to relocate back to Ireland while keeping you and your dependent's EU treaty rights.

These are all hypothetical conditions though. You would have to convince the officer that you were actually exercising your treaty rights in the other EU country and not simply for the purpose of relocation.
Of course, the 'centre of life' test is a familiar concept and simply relocating to another EU country for 6 months is frequently a non-runner. What is the reference to this arrangement Irish law anyway? it was known as Surinder Singh in UK.

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