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Foreign Birth Registration?

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Michael123
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Michael123 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:25 pm

About webchat..

1. Started webchat from idiot-phone.. 28 in line
2. Got down to being 4th in line
3. idiot-phone screen timer went to black screen
4. Looked again, now 26th in line!!!!
5. Waited again keeping screen alive
6. Got to number 1
7. Connected to agent (name)...
8. Server disconnected, restarted “try again”
9. Back to 26th in line
10. After connecting to agent, “No, this is only for passport applications, you have to call FBR at (phone number)

There isnt any winning!!

I did call and I got the response that I posted in my last post (12-13 months)



* when I typed this post, I typed idiot-phone, but it keeps changing it to Idiot phone...

EYE-PHONE not idiot phone

Laurie9434
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Laurie9434 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:33 pm

What’s the email address to inquire about the status of my application? Is there webchat for FBR?

my timeline:

Aug 13, 2018: sent application (through an agency that helps you with the process)

Aug 15, 2018: received email stating application had been received in Dublin

Feb 25, 2019 I was updated by the agency I used. They have been in contact with the FBR office and said everything we’ve already seen on this forum. And that they have dispatched additional manpower to get their hands around the backlog. They are hearing 7 months. But, that was just a guess.

I’m at 6.5 months right now. This isn’t much help, I know! Sorry! :cry:

PasadenaTom
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by PasadenaTom » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:57 pm

Laurie9434 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:33 pm
What’s the email address to inquire about the status of my application? Is there webchat for FBR?
They stopped taking email a few weeks ago. Webchat was discussed in the last few posts above. But short answer is, they did have it for a couple of weeks, and now it is phone calls only.

Since it apparently takes a long time to get through by phone, DFA staff must be constantly tied up answering questions. I just wonder how many more applications they could have processed if they had fewer status update requests.

Sulla
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Sulla » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:12 am

As Tom indicated there is now a page which indicates that webchat is defunct for FBR inquiries.

Please note that queries relating to Foreign Birth Registration can only be handled via phone, Monday - Friday 9am - 5pm

Phone: +353 1 671 1633

https://www.dfa.ie/about-us/contact-us/ ... tizenship/

However, in typical DFA style, giving people information without also misguiding them with other information currently posted on the website wouldn't seem sporting. Providing clear information obviously just sucks the fun out of everything.

Exhibit A

Our Embassy in London and Consulate General in Edinburgh no longer process Foreign Birth Registration, as these have been centralised to the Foreign Birth Registration team in Dublin. Queries regarding applications for Foreign Birth Registration should be directed to our Customer Service Hub, where they will be handled by telephone or LiveChat.

7 February 2019


https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenship/citizenship/

Exhibit B

How to get in touch with the Passport Service should you have a comment or query relating to Passport applications or Foreign Birth Registration applications:

WebChat
Available from 09:00 - 16:00 Monday to Friday (excluding Bank Holidays)

https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenship/contact-us/

This organisation is really something. It's hard to believe that they represent Ireland to the world. Their service is as confused as it is inefficient. It's akin to the standards you might expect when interacting with a municipal administration in China or Thailand.

Court2
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Court2 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:23 am

I agree with the comments above, and am almost at the point of an earlier poster of just asking for my money back and originals sent back.

My certificates cost over £200 to obtain and to think they are now in the possession and custody of such an incompetent organisation is becoming increasingly alarming.

I reiterate my earlier post, for the price we are all paying (including for even obtaining certificates!) plus the nature of the documents being sent, expensive, original and highly personal certificates, it is mind boggling that the DFA leave us all in such limbo. Unfortunately it seems like they’ve got our money and they’ll now take as long as they like! Not what I agreed to, when I joined the ‘queue’ everything stated 6 months. Anything happening subsequent should not delay applications ahead of any delaying events. Madness.

Sulla
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Sulla » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:35 am

This page may be used for submitting a complaint about the conduct of the FBR department.

https://www.dfa.ie/about-us/our-commitments/

Click on the "contact our customer service unit" link on the left.

Please note there is an initial 250 character (including spaces) limit.

Make it clear that you want to complain about the FBR dept and your complaint does not relate to appealing a decision.

I did this and I received a reply within hours. I was asked to give a full version of the complaint via return email.

I have to do this in order to show that I have a record of me taking reasonable steps to resolve the situation. This is a necessary precursor to escalation to the ombudsman or litigation. As I indicated previously, there is precisely no prospect of me meekly accepting this level of inefficiency and delay. The DFA have brought considerable inconvenience to me and to so many others, in large part due to the fact that they failed to follow their own procedures. The people responsible should be held to account.

I encourage anyone else with a grievance to use this avenue to air it with the customer service team. The more people that do, the greater the pressure will be and the more chance of improvement.

nick1066
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by nick1066 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:57 am

With regards to passport applications, the other indicator that something has happened (in addition to the estimated date tracker) is the taking of the payment via a credit or debit card. Mine was debited a couple of weeks after they received the application.

I assume that as it was the first box of the form, they took a look at that, processed payment and put the papers back in the envelope. However, if anyone has any other thoughts or timeline details??

Court2
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Court2 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:23 pm

Sulla wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:35 am
This page may be used for submitting a complaint about the conduct of the FBR department.

https://www.dfa.ie/about-us/our-commitments/

Click on the "contact our customer service unit" link on the left.

Please note there is an initial 250 character (including spaces) limit.

Make it clear that you want to complain about the FBR dept and your complaint does not relate to appealing a decision.

I did this and I received a reply within hours. I was asked to give a full version of the complaint via return email.

I have to do this in order to show that I have a record of me taking reasonable steps to resolve the situation. This is a necessary precursor to escalation to the ombudsman or litigation. As I indicated previously, there is precisely no prospect of me meekly accepting this level of inefficiency and delay. The DFA have brought considerable inconvenience to me and to so many others, in large part due to the fact that they failed to follow their own procedures. The people responsible should be held to account.

I encourage anyone else with a grievance to use this avenue to air it with the customer service team. The more people that do, the greater the pressure will be and the more chance of improvement.
Thank you for this.

Just submitted my complaint.

It is simply not good enough for any body (public or private) to take money for a service and then not provide it within the intended/publicised timeframe and expect their customers to find out the latest on their own initiative. Regretful that it got to this point but the DFA does not seem bothered by our dissatisfaction, price paid nor the nature of these applications of sending off original documents for an incredibly protracted amount of time, which bring them substantial income (£300 FBR vs £80 passport).

Michael123
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Michael123 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:07 am

6 months and 16 days.

Sulla
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Sulla » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:56 am

I expect to receive the FBR certificate next week. That will bring this process to a conclusion at around the 7 month stage. That is by my measurement from the date of application until now.

I also anticipate that the DFA will come back to me on my complaint in the coming week. I predict that they will attempt to claim that the application timeline runs not from when I submitted my application to the embassy, but when it was received in Dublin or even when they opened it or began processing. Furthermore, I assume that they will claim that my process ended on or before January 10th 2019, when I was added to the register and that time taken for physical printing /receipt of the FBR certificate is not part of the process timescale.

Naturally, I do not regard either of those exculpatory assertions as vaguely tenable. However, I believe that is the route they will take. Instead of attempting to tackle issues arising form the manner in which the department deals with incomplete applications and knock on delays, they are likely to claim that as irrelevant, as my application was fully processed well within the estimated time-frame. Therefore, regardless of their internal conduct, I suffered no damage.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Michael123
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Michael123 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:11 am

Your first assuming that they will even reply.

What was the date of your application again?

I can recall Laurie on 8/13
Myself and my cousin on 8/21
Liam 8/22

Any others?

PasadenaTom
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by PasadenaTom » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:43 am

Sulla wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:56 am
I also anticipate that the DFA will come back to me on my complaint in the coming week. I predict that they will attempt to claim that the application timeline runs not from when I submitted my application to the embassy, but when it was received in Dublin or even when they opened it or began processing. ...

Naturally, I do not regard either of those exculpatory assertions as vaguely tenable. However, I believe that is the route they will take. Instead of attempting to tackle issues arising form the manner in which the department deals with incomplete applications and knock on delays, they are likely to claim that as irrelevant, as my application was fully processed well within the estimated time-frame. Therefore, regardless of their internal conduct, I suffered no damage.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I predict you will get nowhere. What standing do you have for litigation? You are not a citizen. So you cannot claim you were denied a service reserved for citizens (like a passport). You submitted an application. That is not the same as signing a service contract. You were given an estimated time for processing a citizenship application. It was not a service guarantee. Nowhere in the application form that I signed is there any such a promise. I expect your application contained no such language.

What is the damage you suffered? Waiting? You cannot argue that you were deprived of anything because you had no reason to assume that your application would be approved. If you made plans expecting to have our citizenship or passport by a certain date, that was your mistake, because you should have planned for the possibility that your application would be rejected or that it might be delayed, pending further documentation requests or other delays.

I am sure there are a number of barristers who would be happy to take your case, because regardless of its merits, they will get paid. But I think you should take some time to acquaint yourself with contract law before you invest in such an endeavor.

I do understand the frustration of everyone who is waiting, and has been waiting longer than expected. But it is not just about you. The Irish government has been forced to deal with issues thrust on them by their neighbor to the east. FBR application volumes are a relatively miniscule part of what they must address. The volume of additional passport applications they must process (which is a service for CURRENT citizens) is much greater than the FBR applications they have. In addition, they have to deal with border, tariff and other issues that might arise from the UK crashing out of Brexit. It is not "business as usual" in Ireland. Again, I am very sorry for those of you who were affected. But give DFA some slack.

FBR is not a major source of revenue, as some seem to think. So I have no doubt that if they need extra people to handle passport services to current citizens, FBR is going to take a lower priority. If I were someone born in Ireland and trying to renew a passport, I'd be pretty annoyed that I had to wait a long time, because DFA didn't want to offend FBR applicants.

I wonder why you want to be a citizen of a country whose goverment and civil servants you appear to hold in disdain?

Sulla
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Sulla » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:18 am

Michael

I submitted my application in person to the embassy one week before yours. I already received a response from the customer service people. I do not have any reason to suspect that they will not respond in full to the complaint.

Tom

Actually, I am a citizen of Ireland and have been since I was added to the FBR in early January. I just lack the (as yet undelivered) physical FBR certificate, which would enable enjoyment of certain civil rights, including the right to apply for a passport, but not limited to that. Restriction of the ability to exercise rights does constitute damage.

I am sure there is no difference between the application forms that we signed. There is no service guarantee as regards timescales. That is not the basis of claim.

Please try to understand that when we submit our applications we and the DFA are governed by the rules set out within the form and supporting guidance notes. In this instance, the form clearly states that incomplete or incorrect applications will be returned. We also know from statements current on the DFA website that incomplete applications take longer than complete ones and 50% of applications are incomplete. Clearly if these incomplete applications were being returned directly then this would not be the case. If those applications had been taken out of the system quickly, then the complete applications would have moved forward considerably more swiftly. I claim on the basis that the delay I have suffered and consequent loss is a product of a breach of procedure.

I perceive this as more of a tort than a contractual issue. I will wait and see what the DFA response is before determining next steps. Escalation to the Ombudsman is free. Litigation is not something that I shy away from either though.

I have never indicated that FBR was a money-spinner for the Irish government. I assume that comment was directed elsewhere. However, neither I do not buy into the blame Brexit and cut the DFA some slack school of thought. I respect the fact that you do, but I do not. In June, it will be 3 years since the Brexit vote. The uptick in applications started even before the referendum. The DFA should have been better prepared. Maybe not in 2016, but certainly by 2018. Instead, we see a situation akin to the manager of a florist that failed to plan for the valentines day rush - for 3 years running. If you were the owner, would you excuse such conduct?

As for the disdain remark, I don't think I ever articulated that. I am exasperated at the inefficiency and conflicting information provided by one section of one government department. That does not equate to disdain for a nation, the government as a whole or the entire civil service. Even if a person did feel such blanket derision, in my view, it should be no barrier to being a citizen. One does not have to love Donald Trump, the IRS or respect ICE in order to remain or become an American citizen. Not yet, anyway.

StephenF
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by StephenF » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:53 am

Michael123 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:07 am
6 months and 16 days.
I would say hold on with the FBR application and don't give up. The feeling you get when it comes through and you have the certificate in your hand is worth the wait. I Know I have been lucky getting mine through in the 6 months. But your day will come ! :D

TOMUS71
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by TOMUS71 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:21 am

Hi guys, I applied for FBR in December 2017. My application was very straight forward so it took exactly 6 months plus a further 4 weeks for the certificate to be printed and posted, so 7 months in total. Communicating with them then was just as frustrating then as it is now, I have recently applied for my 3 kids in January this year and fully expect it to take up to 12 months particularly with the current situation and probably more delays after Brexit. It is frustrating but I think it's a case of sitting and waiting because no amount of phone calls or emails are going to make things happen any quicker. In my opinion, I think if you are on this forum then you are already an Irish citizen at heart. Your official documents will arrive at some point so just be patient a little longer and try to occupy your mind with something else. Hopefully you'll all be raising a glass to Irish Citizenship soon.

Court2
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Court2 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:29 pm

PasadenaTom wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:43 am
Sulla wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:56 am
I also anticipate that the DFA will come back to me on my complaint in the coming week. I predict that they will attempt to claim that the application timeline runs not from when I submitted my application to the embassy, but when it was received in Dublin or even when they opened it or began processing. ...

Naturally, I do not regard either of those exculpatory assertions as vaguely tenable. However, I believe that is the route they will take. Instead of attempting to tackle issues arising form the manner in which the department deals with incomplete applications and knock on delays, they are likely to claim that as irrelevant, as my application was fully processed well within the estimated time-frame. Therefore, regardless of their internal conduct, I suffered no damage.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I predict you will get nowhere. What standing do you have for litigation? You are not a citizen. So you cannot claim you were denied a service reserved for citizens (like a passport). You submitted an application. That is not the same as signing a service contract. You were given an estimated time for processing a citizenship application. It was not a service guarantee. Nowhere in the application form that I signed is there any such a promise. I expect your application contained no such language.

What is the damage you suffered? Waiting? You cannot argue that you were deprived of anything because you had no reason to assume that your application would be approved. If you made plans expecting to have our citizenship or passport by a certain date, that was your mistake, because you should have planned for the possibility that your application would be rejected or that it might be delayed, pending further documentation requests or other delays.

I am sure there are a number of barristers who would be happy to take your case, because regardless of its merits, they will get paid. But I think you should take some time to acquaint yourself with contract law before you invest in such an endeavor.

I do understand the frustration of everyone who is waiting, and has been waiting longer than expected. But it is not just about you. The Irish government has been forced to deal with issues thrust on them by their neighbor to the east. FBR application volumes are a relatively miniscule part of what they must address. The volume of additional passport applications they must process (which is a service for CURRENT citizens) is much greater than the FBR applications they have. In addition, they have to deal with border, tariff and other issues that might arise from the UK crashing out of Brexit. It is not "business as usual" in Ireland. Again, I am very sorry for those of you who were affected. But give DFA some slack.

FBR is not a major source of revenue, as some seem to think. So I have no doubt that if they need extra people to handle passport services to current citizens, FBR is going to take a lower priority. If I were someone born in Ireland and trying to renew a passport, I'd be pretty annoyed that I had to wait a long time, because DFA didn't want to offend FBR applicants.

I wonder why you want to be a citizen of a country whose goverment and civil servants you appear to hold in disdain?
To address the points in bold above:

- We have every reason to believe our applications will be approved if they were complete to the guidelines stipulated. I personally submitted absolutely everything possible, including photos so I fully expect to be approved. I'm sure you yourself fully expected to be approved or strongly hoped/anticipated to be when you applied with a full set of documents?

- If the delays were actually due to further requests then that would be far more easy to understand than sitting in silence, no progress updates and any pro-active communication from applicants results in vague and unhelpful answers from the FBR team who then also have the audacity to pump out conflicting messages of how to even contact them on their website and other areas. The website still says WebChat is an option!

- Anyone who thinks the UK would 'crash' out is deluded. The term 'crashing' is highly emotive, unhelpful and scaremongering. Call me cynical but I would not be surprised if the DFA are deliberately slowing the FBR process as a political point to deter British applicants, either way, the DFA achieves something as they can slow down their work whilst still receiving payment and making a political point at the same time.

- FBR is at a significant cost to applicants, for UK applicants currently priced at £278, with the cost of sending the documents securely around £7 and then subsequent passport application £80 plus postage (maybe in a few years time given the current vague delays). There may well be other countries with higher charges, however for this process, the cost is a further frustrating and angering aspect of this whole process as so far, for nearly £300 we cannot even get what we applied for in the timescale originally stated and cannot even get an accurate response of where our papers even are. Most likely lying in a box in a dusty room in Dublin or wherever the office now is... :roll: :shock:

theonlyh
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by theonlyh » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:19 pm

Hi,

Does anyone know how the FBR certificates and original documents are returned to people living in the UK?

I have missed a parcel from Royal Mail today and wondering if it could be them!

spiderplants
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by spiderplants » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:27 pm

theonlyh wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:19 pm
Hi,

Does anyone know how the FBR certificates and original documents are returned to people living in the UK?

I have missed a parcel from Royal Mail today and wondering if it could be them!
Aargh, we're going to have to wait until Monday now to find out. Out of curiosity, when did you apply?

danmur
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by danmur » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:58 pm

zippy12 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:31 pm
Hi danmur,

Unfortunately, I can't give you better news....
I submitted my passport application on 21st January, at Glasgow PO. It appeared February, and the progress bar is now sitting at about 80%.

I was told by the PO Clerk in Glasgow when I submitted my application that they were now going to Cork and that they were taking about 3 weeks (even first-time applications like mine - I checked!).

The DFA website states that the turnaround time for first-time applications from Great Britain is a minimum of 48 working days, which for me would be around the 3rd of April. However, the website also states that applications sent by Great Britain Passport Express, which mine was, should take about 13 working days. Which one is correct? - it's difficult to tell....

Fingers crossed that it might actually be somewhere in between.....

Let me know how it goes with your application?

I hope you have better luck!
Regards, zippy12
danmur wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:36 pm
Hello Zippy12,

Sorry been away on holiday first time checking this in a few weeks.

Sent my passport application away on Saturday 9th February and it’s giving me an ETA issue date the second week in March.
Have you had any luck receiving yours yet?
[/quote]

Hello zippy,

Checked today and it said printing and my issue date is this Monday 11th March! I’m not too sure how much longer this process should take - did you have any luck?

Michael123
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Re: Foreign Birth Registration?

Post by Michael123 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:02 pm

Sulla:

What date did your application reach Dublin?

Thanks.

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