Foreign Birth Registration

Valiant24 · Post by **Valiant24** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:16 pm

I wanted to add my experience of FBR in case it helps others, and also to ask a question.

I applied for FBR in August 2018. My maternal grandmother was born in Co. Carlow, so I assumed it would be quite straightforward.

Having heard nothing I called for a progress update in Oct 2019. After several calls I was told that my application was out of the ordinary, as I was adopted in the UK, and the specialist who dealt with such cases was unusually busy.

Eventually in Dec 2019 I was told that my FBR application had been rejected, because adopted children do not have the same rights as natural-born children in this respect. I had not anticipated this having assumed - wrongly it seems - that adopted children would have the same rights as natural children as is the case under UK law.

However, I was told that I could apply for a passport anyway, because my mother was an Irish citizen (because she was born naturally to an Irish-born mother) at the time of my adoption in the UK, even though my mother had spent her entire life living in the UK and had never herself obtained an Irish passport, and had a UK one.

My question is: does the fact that I can apply for an Irish passport in these circumstances confer rights to me as an adoptee that a natural-born child would not have had? I did try to ask the FBR official who dealt with my case but she was quite harried, and did not I think fully grasp exactly the question I was asking.

(I should also say that there's an element of chicken-counting going on on my part, as I haven't actually received the Irish passport yet!)

Con_Phillips · Post by **Con_Phillips** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:54 pm

My application was delivered yesterday (21/01) and I received an email the same day from the department to say that they had received it. I placed my application number on the front of the parcel that I had sent, as per the instructions.

I was pleasantly surprised that they had acknowledged receipt of my application so soon, after reading some of the other people’s experiences within this thread.

It took a total of 6 working days to arrive with Royal Mail International Tracked & Signed which was longer than I anticipated. Apparently it took customs two days to process my parcel. It must be busy in Dublin!

tom_bcfc · Post by **tom_bcfc** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:56 am

Just been on the phone to the Dublin office. Certificates are taking 5 weeks to be printed at the moment due to a backlog. Advised to call back in a few weeks for tracking

AndyK · Post by **AndyK** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:40 pm

I sent out my application end of July and following my tracking it was received on August 1st 2019 at the embassy in Madrid. Its been 5 months and 22 days since then and I never got a confirmation that they received it. I emailed them a week ago asking about the situation and they replied saying my application is in "queue for processing". Does that mean its in the allocated 6-9 month time frame or has it not even reached that stage yet. Anyone had a similar experience?

lainyb · Post by **lainyb** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:21 pm

Valiant24 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:16 pm
I wanted to add my experience of FBR in case it helps others, and also to ask a question.

I applied for FBR in August 2018. My maternal grandmother was born in Co. Carlow, so I assumed it would be quite straightforward.

Having heard nothing I called for a progress update in Oct 2019. After several calls I was told that my application was out of the ordinary, as I was adopted in the UK, and the specialist who dealt with such cases was unusually busy.

Eventually in Dec 2019 I was told that my FBR application had been rejected, because adopted children do not have the same rights as natural-born children in this respect. I had not anticipated this having assumed - wrongly it seems - that adopted children would have the same rights as natural children as is the case under UK law.

However, I was told that I could apply for a passport anyway, because my mother was an Irish citizen (because she was born naturally to an Irish-born mother) at the time of my adoption in the UK, even though my mother had spent her entire life living in the UK and had never herself obtained an Irish passport, and had a UK one.

My question is: does the fact that I can apply for an Irish passport in these circumstances confer rights to me as an adoptee that a natural-born child would not have had? I did try to ask the FBR official who dealt with my case but she was quite harried, and did not I think fully grasp exactly the question I was asking.

(I should also say that there's an element of chicken-counting going on on my part, as I haven't actually received the Irish passport yet!)

Hi Valiant24, that would seem strange although that's amazing if this is the case for you. My Nan & granddad were both born in Ireland but had my father in the UK and he never obtained his Irish passport although he was a citizen. The website says that I must apply through the FBR process to get my citizenship.

Mariecws · Post by **Mariecws** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:19 pm

AndyK wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:40 pm
I sent out my application end of July and following my tracking it was received on August 1st 2019 at the embassy in Madrid. Its been 5 months and 22 days since then and I never got a confirmation that they received it. I emailed them a week ago asking about the situation and they replied saying my application is in "queue for processing". Does that mean its in the allocated 6-9 month time frame or has it not even reached that stage yet. Anyone had a similar experience?

Yes it’s in the timeframe but it’s not a fixed 6-9 months. I’m at 10 months and counting

Valiant24 · Post by **Valiant24** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:31 pm

Hi lainyb

It does seem that way. From the Citizens' Information website:

In your case: "If you were born outside of Ireland and your parent (who was also born outside of Ireland) was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are entitled to become an Irish citizen.... To claim Irish citizenship, you must have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register".

In my case: "Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, if a child who is not an Irish citizen is adopted by an Irish citizen or a couple where either spouse is an Irish citizen, then the adopted child shall be an Irish citizen".

I further infer that any children you have who are born before you do FBR will not be able to become Irish citizens, whereas mine will be able to apply via FBR. I'm not a lawyer though so might have that wrong!

regards
V

lainyb · Post by **lainyb** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:50 am

Valiant24 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:31 pm
Hi lainyb

It does seem that way. From the Citizens' Information website:

In your case: "If you were born outside of Ireland and your parent (who was also born outside of Ireland) was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are entitled to become an Irish citizen.... To claim Irish citizenship, you must have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register".

In my case: "Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, if a child who is not an Irish citizen is adopted by an Irish citizen or a couple where either spouse is an Irish citizen, then the adopted child shall be an Irish citizen".

I further infer that any children you have who are born before you do FBR will not be able to become Irish citizens, whereas mine will be able to apply via FBR. I'm not a lawyer though so might have that wrong!

regards
V

Hi V, yes thats great! such a shame you had to wait so long for them to tell you that

least you're eligible to apply for your passport now, cant wait to get mine in (fingers crossed not too much longer)

Valiant24 · Post by **Valiant24** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:18 am

Yes, frustrating to wait to long, but had I researched it more and not just assumed that the position for adoptees would be identical to that for other children then I might have asked the right questions in advance and saved myself the time.

PasadenaTom · Post by **PasadenaTom** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:33 am

Valiant24 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:31 pm

In my case: "Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, if a child who is not an Irish citizen is adopted by an Irish citizen or a couple where either spouse is an Irish citizen, then the adopted child shall be an Irish citizen".

Further down on that web page it says:

"If an Irish citizen who is living abroad adopts child abroad, they should apply for the adoption to be entered in the Register of Intercountry Adoptions".

Seems like you have another step to complete other than FBR.

Valiant24 · Post by **Valiant24** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:47 pm

@ PassdenaTom

Further down on that web page it says:
"If an Irish citizen who is living abroad adopts child abroad, they should apply for the adoption to be entered in the Register of Intercountry Adoptions".
Seems like you have another step to complete other than FBR.

As per earlier in the thread, I did apply for FBR believing this to be the case, but my FBR was rejected (after a 1y 4m wait!) because as an adoptee I did not qualify for FBR in the same way that a natural-born child would have done.

I now understand that the text you've quoted applies only to adoptions after 1991. I was adopted before then.

In any case, I did have now received my passport, without the need for FBR, by submitting proof of my adoptive Irish-born grandmother's birth; proof of my UK-born adoptive mother's birth to her; and my adoption order.

Had I realised that adoptees have different rights to natural-born children I would have saved myself a year and a half. But, All's Well that Ends Well!

jjustyy · Post by **jjustyy** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:29 pm

@Valiant24 - so now I'm really confused as I appear to be in the same position as you. My Nan was born in Ireland and my adoptive father was born in the UK (he has an Irish passport now).

I registered my adoption in the Register for Intercountry Adoptions (RICA) last year and have now applied for FBR in the way you did Valiant24 just this month. Are you saying this FBR step is not required for me (my adoption was however after 1991)?

cdcd2cs2ds · Post by **cdcd2cs2ds** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:11 pm

Had the appointment with my witness today.
The instructions for what the witness has to actually write aren't particularly clear online or on the application form, but here's what I had them do:

- Wrote 'I certify this is a true copy of the original document' and signed, dated and stamped mine and my father's passport photocopies.
- Wrote 'I certify this is a true likeness of (name)' and signed, dated and stamped my passport photos.
(Although the stamp they put on the back of the passport photos has smudged due to the ink not setting on the photo paper, so I might have to print another set and get my witness to do them again.)

Does that all sound right? Will it matter if there's a different date on the new photos compared to the application form?

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:51 am

cdcd2cs2ds wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:11 pm
Had the appointment with my witness today.
The instructions for what the witness has to actually write aren't particularly clear online or on the application form, but here's what I had them do:

- Wrote 'I certify this is a true copy of the original document' and signed, dated and stamped mine and my father's passport photocopies.
- Wrote 'I certify this is a true likeness of (name)' and signed, dated and stamped my passport photos.
(Although the stamp they put on the back of the passport photos has smudged due to the ink not setting on the photo paper, so I might have to print another set and get my witness to do them again.)

Does that all sound right? Will it matter if there's a different date on the new photos compared to the application form?

Yes it all sounds fine. As for the smudging, it depends how bad it is. If it's smudged but you can still make out the underlying stamp then it will be fine. If it is just an inky blur, it might not be. In the past, both smudged and partial (when the stamp is too large for the photo) stamps have been accepted.

cdcd2cs2ds · Post by **cdcd2cs2ds** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:49 am

Sulla wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:51 am

cdcd2cs2ds wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:11 pm
Had the appointment with my witness today.
The instructions for what the witness has to actually write aren't particularly clear online or on the application form, but here's what I had them do:

- Wrote 'I certify this is a true copy of the original document' and signed, dated and stamped mine and my father's passport photocopies.
- Wrote 'I certify this is a true likeness of (name)' and signed, dated and stamped my passport photos.
(Although the stamp they put on the back of the passport photos has smudged due to the ink not setting on the photo paper, so I might have to print another set and get my witness to do them again.)

Does that all sound right? Will it matter if there's a different date on the new photos compared to the application form?
Yes it all sounds fine. As for the smudging, it depends how bad it is. If it's smudged but you can still make out the underlying stamp then it will be fine. If it is just an inky blur, it might not be. In the past, both smudged and partial (when the stamp is too large for the photo) stamps have been accepted.

Great, I suppose I can risk it with the smudge then, as it's still identifiable. At least it is something easy to fix in future if they do request new ones.

tom_bcfc · Post by **tom_bcfc** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:14 pm

My application was approved on 31st December. Was told via email 3 weeks for printing then a week for delivery to UK.

Now been 4 weeks so called up for tracking, told it will come in up to 6 weeks now as there is a huge backlog in printing. 6 weeks will make it 12 months on the dot since I applied back in March. I guess the backlog isnt getting any quicker guys!

Michael123 · Post by **Michael123** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:27 pm

Just checking and it seems things have got much worse since I received my FBR/Passport.

IrishNJUSAMan · Post by **IrishNJUSAMan** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:49 pm

It was 8 months ago today that my on line application and all required documents (and an entire copy of all docs) were confirmed as being received in Ireland for processing.
Quick question We were always told that my grandfather who was born in Omagh County Tyrone and whom I am requesting citizenship through was born on feb 5 1886 and I entered that birthdate on the application. The birth certificate which I requested and was mailed to me here in the USA indicates a handwritten entry in a birth log/ birth certificate of May 1 1886.
Does anyone know if this will be a major issue? I would think they would just use the information on the birth certificate.
Any feedback you have is greatly appreciated.

cdcd2cs2ds · Post by **cdcd2cs2ds** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:50 pm

Well, my application process just gets more and more painstaking.

The Registrar that produced the death certificate for my grandfather's recent death has made a typo in his first name that no one picked up on at the time of entry. The first name has an extra letter, despite them spelling his name correctly elsewhere on the document.
Is this likely to affect my application? I just can't believe they've made this mistake quite honestly.
It's still recognizably the same name but it's not how it's shown on any other document.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:18 am

cdcd2cs2ds wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:50 pm
Well, my application process just gets more and more painstaking.

The Registrar that produced the death certificate for my grandfather's recent death has made a typo in his first name that no one picked up on at the time of entry. The first name has an extra letter, despite them spelling his name correctly elsewhere on the document.
Is this likely to affect my application? I just can't believe they've made this mistake quite honestly.
It's still recognizably the same name but it's not how it's shown on any other document.

Not likely to be a problem at all. Enclose a letter explaining the situation with your application. If all the other instances of the name that appear have the correct spelling, it is unlikely to pose an issue.

Different spellings of names and different or missing middle names are relatively common when it comes to FBR.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:38 am

IrishNJUSAMan wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:49 pm
It was 8 months ago today that my on line application and all required documents (and an entire copy of all docs) were confirmed as being received in Ireland for processing.
Quick question We were always told that my grandfather who was born in Omagh County Tyrone and whom I am requesting citizenship through was born on feb 5 1886 and I entered that birthdate on the application. The birth certificate which I requested and was mailed to me here in the USA indicates a handwritten entry in a birth log/ birth certificate of May 1 1886.
Does anyone know if this will be a major issue? I would think they would just use the information on the birth certificate.
Any feedback you have is greatly appreciated.

To be honest, I think this will depend on whether the date from the handwritten entry is just an outlier or whether there is a lot of confusion over the birth date. If you have a sheaf of other documents such as marriage certificates and death certificates showing consistent information (parent's names etc) which all contain the birth date you indicated, then I would not worry. This situation has come up before without issue for FBR inclusion. This is the main reason that the FBR section ask for such an extensive set of documents.

Even if it is queried, it would only serve to delay FBR. You can get records like this amended by the GRO or relevant records office if you can show sufficient evidence that there has been an error. I did this with some of the records I provided to deal with surname spelling variations and middle name issues. I was not asked to do this by the FBR section, I just did it anyway. I doubt this will be necessary in your case.

jjustyy · Post by **jjustyy** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:19 pm

Valiant24 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:16 pm
I wanted to add my experience of FBR in case it helps others, and also to ask a question.

I applied for FBR in August 2018. My maternal grandmother was born in Co. Carlow, so I assumed it would be quite straightforward.

Having heard nothing I called for a progress update in Oct 2019. After several calls I was told that my application was out of the ordinary, as I was adopted in the UK, and the specialist who dealt with such cases was unusually busy.

Eventually in Dec 2019 I was told that my FBR application had been rejected, because adopted children do not have the same rights as natural-born children in this respect. I had not anticipated this having assumed - wrongly it seems - that adopted children would have the same rights as natural children as is the case under UK law.

However, I was told that I could apply for a passport anyway, because my mother was an Irish citizen (because she was born naturally to an Irish-born mother) at the time of my adoption in the UK, even though my mother had spent her entire life living in the UK and had never herself obtained an Irish passport, and had a UK one.

My question is: does the fact that I can apply for an Irish passport in these circumstances confer rights to me as an adoptee that a natural-born child would not have had? I did try to ask the FBR official who dealt with my case but she was quite harried, and did not I think fully grasp exactly the question I was asking.

(I should also say that there's an element of chicken-counting going on on my part, as I haven't actually received the Irish passport yet!)

@Valiant24 - I've spoken with the FBR team and passport team. I was told that this situation only applies if your mother was born in Ireland - is this the case? Otherwise they said I had to wait for an FBR decision as this is the correct route for adopted children if the parent was not born in Ireland.

cdcd2cs2ds · Post by **cdcd2cs2ds** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:42 pm

Well I finally sent my documents today, January 29th.
Thanks to those who answered my questions, it was very useful being able to get information from others who have done the same process. I'm certain I have done everything that is within my power to do, time to relax about it for 9-12 months.

Good luck to everyone else!

Valiant24 · Post by **Valiant24** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:22 pm

jjustyy wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:19 pm

Valiant24 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:16 pm
I wanted to add my experience of FBR in case it helps others, and also to ask a question.

I applied for FBR in August 2018. My maternal grandmother was born in Co. Carlow, so I assumed it would be quite straightforward.

Having heard nothing I called for a progress update in Oct 2019. After several calls I was told that my application was out of the ordinary, as I was adopted in the UK, and the specialist who dealt with such cases was unusually busy.

Eventually in Dec 2019 I was told that my FBR application had been rejected, because adopted children do not have the same rights as natural-born children in this respect. I had not anticipated this having assumed - wrongly it seems - that adopted children would have the same rights as natural children as is the case under UK law.

However, I was told that I could apply for a passport anyway, because my mother was an Irish citizen (because she was born naturally to an Irish-born mother) at the time of my adoption in the UK, even though my mother had spent her entire life living in the UK and had never herself obtained an Irish passport, and had a UK one.

My question is: does the fact that I can apply for an Irish passport in these circumstances confer rights to me as an adoptee that a natural-born child would not have had? I did try to ask the FBR official who dealt with my case but she was quite harried, and did not I think fully grasp exactly the question I was asking.

(I should also say that there's an element of chicken-counting going on on my part, as I haven't actually received the Irish passport yet!)
@Valiant24 - I've spoken with the FBR team and passport team. I was told that this situation only applies if your mother was born in Ireland - is this the case? Otherwise they said I had to wait for an FBR decision as this is the correct route for adopted children if the parent was not born in Ireland.

Hello jjustyy

Apologies for replying earlier, as I was trying to make sure my reply was definitive.

My adoptive mother was born in the UK. My FBR application was denied, but I was told I could apply directly for a passport, which was indeed granted.

What I believe the position to be, from piecing together what I have read and what I have been told, is as follows:

A child adopted overseas by an Irish citizen who was an Irish citizen at the time of the adoption before 1991 can apply directly for an Irish passport (as in my case).

A child adopted overseas by an Irish citizen who was an Irish citizen at the time of the adoption after 1991 can become an Irish citizen, but the adoption has to be registered with the RICA, and the birth via FBR, first

I'm definitely in the first category, and I believe you're in the second.

You shouldn't rely on this, as it's inference and deduction on my part. If I get it confirmed I will post again.

regards
V

fvigaud · Post by **fvigaud** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:59 pm

Michael123 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:27 pm
Just checking and it seems things have got much worse since I received my FBR/Passport.

I hit the 9-month mark a couple of days ago. Am patiently waiting and hoping next month. From Sulla's list, I believe there are still two March 2019 applicants that haven't yet reported being contacted - Kernzy & Chrisinpm. It seems that things might have sped up for a hot second, and are slowing down again?
- F

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