Foreign Birth Registration

seemcd · Post by **seemcd** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:15 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:06 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:42 am
My mother was born in Scotland in 1913.She was adopted in Scotland in 1913 by Irish born parents(born 1880s). Prior to 1930 in Scotland adoption was informal -there are NO records.
I have birth marriage and death certificates for her adoptive parents and birth parents + My mother's birth certificate with her birth parents named and surname + Her wedding and my birth certificates with her adoptive surname and parents names + Her death certificate with her birth parents and surname listed. I also have a 1921 census record showing her a part of her adoptive family.
My question is how is adoptive status identified in these circumstance with no formal adoption record. It is of interest to me since under the 1956 citizenship act children adopted by Irish families in any country automatically are deemed Irish citizens
I'm not sure what your intent is here. The adoption occured 40 years before the 1956 act. My grandfather was born in the same decade......

I am hoping to find someone who has been able to get approval for an early 20th century undocumented adoption. If it is possible then my mother could be deemed Irish and my kids can apply to the fbr.

corky100 · Post by **corky100** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:38 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:42 am

I am hoping to find someone who has been able to get approval for an early 20th century undocumented adoption. If it is possible then my mother could be deemed Irish and my kids can apply to the fbr.

I'm afraid it appears you may be entiled to FBR, but this must be done before the next generation is born for them to qualify.

Even if the adoption was fully documented etc, your mother was not born on the Island of Ireland.

It's the same in British Nationality law - You can be a "British Citizen otherwise than by descent" (can pass on automatically) or a "British Citizen by descent" (cannot pass on automatically).

MikeyMike · Post by **MikeyMike** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:46 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:15 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:06 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:42 am
My mother was born in Scotland in 1913.She was adopted in Scotland in 1913 by Irish born parents(born 1880s). Prior to 1930 in Scotland adoption was informal -there are NO records.
I have birth marriage and death certificates for her adoptive parents and birth parents + My mother's birth certificate with her birth parents named and surname + Her wedding and my birth certificates with her adoptive surname and parents names + Her death certificate with her birth parents and surname listed. I also have a 1921 census record showing her a part of her adoptive family.
My question is how is adoptive status identified in these circumstance with no formal adoption record. It is of interest to me since under the 1956 citizenship act children adopted by Irish families in any country automatically are deemed Irish citizens
I'm not sure what your intent is here. The adoption occured 40 years before the 1956 act. My grandfather was born in the same decade......
I am hoping to find someone who has been able to get approval for an early 20th century undocumented adoption. If it is possible then my mother could be deemed Irish and my kids can apply to the fbr.

If your mother was born in Scotland and her adoptive parents were Irish-born then that would make her Irish and she could pass that inheritance on to you (since you would then have Irish born grandparents) but it could not be passed on to her grandchildren (your children) unless you were on the foreign births register at the time of their birth. If you are already on the register then presumably you have established lineage back to those Irish-born adopters. Apologies if I'm missing something, here.

corky100 · Post by **corky100** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:55 pm

MikeyMike wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:46 pm

If your mother was born in Scotland and her adoptive parents were Irish-born then that would make her Irish and she could pass that inheritance on to you (since you would then have Irish born grandparents) but it could not be passed on to her grandchildren (your children) unless you were on the foreign births register at the time of their birth. If you are already on the register then presumably you have established lineage back to those Irish-born adopters. Apologies if I'm missing something, here.

You're right but there is more nuance to it than that, but it doesn't matter in this case. People "born to Irish families abroad" and "adopted by Irish families abroad" are both automatically Irish citizens. It affects citizenship for them and their children, but no further down than that.

corky100 · Post by **corky100** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:07 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:55 pm

MikeyMike wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:46 pm

If your mother was born in Scotland and her adoptive parents were Irish-born then that would make her Irish and she could pass that inheritance on to you (since you would then have Irish born grandparents) but it could not be passed on to her grandchildren (your children) unless you were on the foreign births register at the time of their birth. If you are already on the register then presumably you have established lineage back to those Irish-born adopters. Apologies if I'm missing something, here.
You're right but there is more nuance to it than that, but it doesn't matter in this case. People "born to Irish families abroad" and "adopted by Irish families abroad" are both automatically Irish citizens. It affects citizenship for them and their children, but no further down than that.

EDIT:- I mean it does not allow the child to automatically pass on.

seemcd · Post by **seemcd** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:55 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:07 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:55 pm

MikeyMike wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:46 pm

If your mother was born in Scotland and her adoptive parents were Irish-born then that would make her Irish and she could pass that inheritance on to you (since you would then have Irish born grandparents) but it could not be passed on to her grandchildren (your children) unless you were on the foreign births register at the time of their birth. If you are already on the register then presumably you have established lineage back to those Irish-born adopters. Apologies if I'm missing something, here.
You're right but there is more nuance to it than that, but it doesn't matter in this case. People "born to Irish families abroad" and "adopted by Irish families abroad" are both automatically Irish citizens. It affects citizenship for them and their children, but no further down than that.

EDIT:- I mean it does not allow the child to automatically pass on.

Thanks for these replies. I have read elsewhere that under the 1956 citizenship act children born abroad to irish parents have to register their birth in Ireland to be Irish BUT children adopted abroad by Irish citizens are automatically Irish. Its wierd but that seems to be the way it operates.

seemcd · Post by **seemcd** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:58 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:55 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:07 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:55 pm

MikeyMike wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:46 pm

If your mother was born in Scotland and her adoptive parents were Irish-born then that would make her Irish and she could pass that inheritance on to you (since you would then have Irish born grandparents) but it could not be passed on to her grandchildren (your children) unless you were on the foreign births register at the time of their birth. If you are already on the register then presumably you have established lineage back to those Irish-born adopters. Apologies if I'm missing something, here.
You're right but there is more nuance to it than that, but it doesn't matter in this case. People "born to Irish families abroad" and "adopted by Irish families abroad" are both automatically Irish citizens. It affects citizenship for them and their children, but no further down than that.

EDIT:- I mean it does not allow the child to automatically pass on.

Thanks for these replies. I have read elsewhere that under the 1956 citizenship act children born abroad to irish parents have to register their birth in Ireland to be Irish BUT children adopted abroad by Irish citizens are automatically Irish. Its wierd but that seems to be the way it operates.

Weblink removed by moderator. Posting of solicitor we links is not permitted on the forum

corky100 · Post by **corky100** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:02 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:55 pm
Thanks for these replies. I have read elsewhere that under the 1956 citizenship act children born abroad to irish parents have to register their birth in Ireland to be Irish BUT children adopted abroad by Irish citizens are automatically Irish. Its wierd but that seems to be the way it operates.

Almost right

But there's no point delving further as it doesn't help your kids

seemcd · Post by **seemcd** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:03 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:02 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:55 pm
Thanks for these replies. I have read elsewhere that under the 1956 citizenship act children born abroad to irish parents have to register their birth in Ireland to be Irish BUT children adopted abroad by Irish citizens are automatically Irish. Its wierd but that seems to be the way it operates.
Almost right But there's no point delving further as it doesn't help your kids

Have you seen the link i posted thanks

corky100 · Post by **corky100** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:18 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:03 pm
Have you seen the link i posted thanks

OK, I'm sorry, but I need to stop this going round in circles. I know this is not what you want to hear. I am an apotee, in exactly the same boat as the gentleman mentioned in the article. I hold an Irish passport as an s.11 INCA 1956, as amended, citizen. Who read that article back in 2021. I know my stuff on this one.

If YOU were adopted, it might be different.

But no, it was *******your mother that was adopted*******. You were born to your mother, so normal rules apply to you and your children. That being you were born to an Irish citizen (NOT BORN ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND), so FBR rules apply normally.

mmc1664 · Post by **mmc1664** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:15 pm

Been following this forum for a long time.

My time has finally come. The wait is over ! Timeline below for information.

06/02/2021 Application submitted/paid

09/03/2022 Docs received

30/01/2023 Address Confirmation

29/03/2023 Congratulations/Certificate Printed & Posted

Absolutely delighted. Good luck to all those still waiting, your time will come

seemcd · Post by **seemcd** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:23 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:18 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:03 pm
Have you seen the link i posted thanks
OK, I'm sorry, but I need to stop this going round in circles. I know this is not what you want to hear. I am an apotee, in exactly the same boat as the gentleman mentioned in the article. I hold an Irish passport as an s.11 INCA 1956, as amended, citizen. Who read that article back in 2021. I know my stuff on this one.

If YOU were adopted, it might be different.

But no, it was *******your mother that was adopted*******. You were born to your mother, so normal rules apply to you and your children. That being you were born to an Irish citizen (NOT BORN ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND), so FBR rules apply normally.

Thanks for your help on this. Its good find someone who has had dealings with this stuff.
Let me run through my thinking on this slightly nuanced adoption thing. Due to my mothers adoption and the 1956 rules she is considered as being actually(virtually) born in Ireland to Irish parents. She is Irish and this predates my birth and that of my kids. This makes her the Irish born grandparent of my children and who should be able to apply for FBR.

meself2 · Post by **meself2** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:30 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:23 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:18 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:03 pm
Have you seen the link i posted thanks
OK, I'm sorry, but I need to stop this going round in circles. I know this is not what you want to hear. I am an apotee, in exactly the same boat as the gentleman mentioned in the article. I hold an Irish passport as an s.11 INCA 1956, as amended, citizen. Who read that article back in 2021. I know my stuff on this one.

If YOU were adopted, it might be different.

But no, it was *******your mother that was adopted*******. You were born to your mother, so normal rules apply to you and your children. That being you were born to an Irish citizen (NOT BORN ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND), so FBR rules apply normally.
Thanks for your help on this. Its good find someone who has had dealings with this stuff.
Let me run through my thinking on this slightly nuanced adoption thing. Due to my mothers adoption and the 1956 rules she is considered as being actually(virtually) born in Ireland to Irish parents. She is Irish and this predates my birth and that of my kids. This makes her the Irish born grandparent of my children and who should be able to apply for FBR.

But why would she be (virtually) born in Ireland?
Yes, she could be an Irish citizen due to adoption, but I'm not following how her adoption changed her place of birth.

seemcd · Post by **seemcd** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:38 pm

meself2 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:30 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:23 pm

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:18 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:03 pm
Have you seen the link i posted thanks
OK, I'm sorry, but I need to stop this going round in circles. I know this is not what you want to hear. I am an apotee, in exactly the same boat as the gentleman mentioned in the article. I hold an Irish passport as an s.11 INCA 1956, as amended, citizen. Who read that article back in 2021. I know my stuff on this one.

If YOU were adopted, it might be different.

But no, it was *******your mother that was adopted*******. You were born to your mother, so normal rules apply to you and your children. That being you were born to an Irish citizen (NOT BORN ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND), so FBR rules apply normally.
Thanks for your help on this. Its good find someone who has had dealings with this stuff.
Let me run through my thinking on this slightly nuanced adoption thing. Due to my mothers adoption and the 1956 rules she is considered as being actually(virtually) born in Ireland to Irish parents. She is Irish and this predates my birth and that of my kids. This makes her the Irish born grandparent of my children and who should be able to apply for FBR.
But why would she be (virtually) born in Ireland?
Yes, she could be an Irish citizen due to adoption, but I'm not following how her adoption changed her place of birth.

That is the way I understand the 1956 act. I ve seen stuff that implies that adoption provides benefits that make their status different to just born abroad. I am trying to establish this before I go for the almost impossible task of getting her 1913 adoption formalised!

meself2 · Post by **meself2** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:48 pm

I might be wrong (so I'll let people who've gone through it to correct me if necessary), but you mentioned her benefit already - she's Irish straight away, without a need to go onto FBR. So to continue the citizenship for your kids, you would have to be on FBR before kids' birth. That's why folks on the forum mention it's not worth the hassle, I'm afraid.

seemcd · Post by **seemcd** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:52 pm

meself2 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:48 pm
I might be wrong (so I'll let people who've gone through it to correct me if necessary), but you mentioned her benefit already - she's Irish straight away, without a need to go onto FBR. So to continue the citizenship for your kids, you would have to be on FBR before kids' birth. That's why folks on the forum mention it's not worth the hassle, I'm afraid.

Hi
Only folks born in Ireland to Irish parent(s) are irish unless the birth is registered in ireland I think.

corky100 · Post by **corky100** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:06 pm

seemcd wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:23 pm

Thanks for your help on this. Its good find someone who has had dealings with this stuff.
Let me run through my thinking on this slightly nuanced adoption thing. Due to my mothers adoption and the 1956 rules she is considered as being actually(virtually) born in Ireland to Irish parents. She is Irish and this predates my birth and that of my kids. This makes her the Irish born grandparent of my children and who should be able to apply for FBR.

I don't want to turn this into an Adoption thread, but the conclusion you have come to is totally and utterly wrong. You're mother is not treated as "born in Ireland", s.11 INCA *does not do this*

Where I think you're going wrong is that you think "Irish Citizen" means "Irish Citizen". It doesn't.......

Here's the amended Act, for example:-

https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/19 ... ed/en/html

Section 6 "Irish Citizens", who are born on the island of Ireland, have a superpower, that no other type of Irish citizen *can give* - in that their children are automatically Irish citizens (whether they like it or not).

Children of Section 6 citizens are Section 7 "Irish Citizens". They cannot pass on automatically, their children can apply to become Section 27 citizens through FBR.

If you are adopted by, any type of Irish Citizen, you become a S.11 INCA Citizen automatically, it means you are treated like a Section 7 citizen. But that does not make you a Section 6 citizen. Your children apply via Section 27 FBR, like everybody else.

ChelseaB2818 · Post by **ChelseaB2818** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:33 am

HI Everyone, Entirely new here!

I tried to get an answer from the FBR office but they referred me to their webpage which is what I had the question about!
My grandfather was an Irish citizen born and raised, however my mother was born in the UK. So while she is entitled to Irish citizenship she does not currently hold it, and probably will never either.
I am looking to obtain my FBR so I can apply for an Irish Passport.
Does anyone know can I apply without her information as I am currently not in contact with her, and for various reasons would prefer to remain that way.

I have lived in Ireland for 19 years now, I am currently married to an Irish Citizen and my children are also Irish Citizens. I originate from the UK, my father is British.

I have my grandfathers Birth and Death Certificates, all of my relevant documents just not my mothers.

Any help or advice is appreciated!

Mr_Knight · Post by **Mr_Knight** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:51 am

ChelseaB2818 wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:33 am
HI Everyone, Entirely new here!

I tried to get an answer from the FBR office but they referred me to their webpage which is what I had the question about!
My grandfather was an Irish citizen born and raised, however my mother was born in the UK. So while she is entitled to Irish citizenship she does not currently hold it, and probably will never either.
I am looking to obtain my FBR so I can apply for an Irish Passport.
Does anyone know can I apply without her information as I am currently not in contact with her, and for various reasons would prefer to remain that way.

I have lived in Ireland for 19 years now, I am currently married to an Irish Citizen and my children are also Irish Citizens. I originate from the UK, my father is British.

I have my grandfathers Birth and Death Certificates, all of my relevant documents just not my mothers.

Any help or advice is appreciated!

As long as you can provide all other required documents an affidavit stating you are estranged from your parent can be used in place of their state ID. (You will still need a copy of her birth certificate)

MikeyMike · Post by **MikeyMike** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:17 am

ChelseaB2818 wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:33 am
HI Everyone, Entirely new here!

I tried to get an answer from the FBR office but they referred me to their webpage which is what I had the question about!
My grandfather was an Irish citizen born and raised, however my mother was born in the UK. So while she is entitled to Irish citizenship she does not currently hold it, and probably will never either.
I am looking to obtain my FBR so I can apply for an Irish Passport.
Does anyone know can I apply without her information as I am currently not in contact with her, and for various reasons would prefer to remain that way.

I have lived in Ireland for 19 years now, I am currently married to an Irish Citizen and my children are also Irish Citizens. I originate from the UK, my father is British.

I have my grandfathers Birth and Death Certificates, all of my relevant documents just not my mothers.

Any help or advice is appreciated!

You can still apply for FBR without a copy of your mother's ID by including an explanatory cover letter. The authorities will then ask you to supply a supporting affidavit. Her birth and marriage certificates can be ordered online if you know the relevant dates, places etc.

Somethng else to consider-from what your wrote, you probably have multiple paths to citizenship through naturalisation. It might also be cheaper and quicker than FBR.

One final point-your mother is an Irish citizen through birth unless she actively renounced it. An Irish passport acts as proof of citizenship but you don't need one to be Irish.

Rxp2023 · Post by **Rxp2023** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:23 pm

Just an update on my timeline. I received my FBR certificate today so the wait is over, on to passport application. I would like to say good luck to everybody, especially those who are experiencing hold ups for various reasons, and thanks to everyone offering helpful advice and insight. I do believe in the majority of 'normal' cases, wait times have significantly reduced, mine has taken 10 months from docs received to cert received and I've noticed a few others with similar time scales.

I highly recommend REMOVED for anyone experiencing difficulty with research, documentation gathering, eligibility criteria or application assistance. I used them as my grandfather's birth was never registered with the civil authorities (all of his brothers and sisters were so it was doubly frustrating), they helped with all of the necessary research to apply for a late registration certificate, applied on my behalf and assisted with my FBR application to ensure everything was in order first time around. Pretty decent prices too and they were definitely a huge help for me.

Anyway, my timeline is as follows:

-Began amassing documents in January 2021
-No result returned when ordering grandfather's birth cert march 2021 (hit an impasse due to not being able to find any supporting baptismal certificate. (grandfather has been dead for a good few years and grandmother has dementia so unable to ask her important questions).
-Due to covid restrictions and hearing that they were not processing claims so decided to put it on ice/gave up hope.
-Found grandad's baptismal birth certificate feb 2022
-Contacted REMOVED feb 2022, started the ball tolling to use his baptismal certificate to create a civil birth certificate (there were some snags in this process as his parents never had their deaths formally registered).
-Birth registered in april 2022, birth certificate received may 2022
-Online FBR application - 12/05/22
-Docs received email - 02/06/22
-Address check email - 01/03/23
-Confirmation of FBR acceptance email - 02/03/23
-Congratulations/cert printed and posted email -23/03/23
-Certificate received - 30/03/23

Maybe a little TMI but if there's anything that somebody can glean from this, that's the idea. Good luck all!

Coachman · Post by **Coachman** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:29 pm

Just to give everyone some encouragement. I copied this from the Oireachtas regarding a status of FBR posted March 29 and the reply from the Foreign Minister:

During 2022, my Department implemented a number of measures to address the volume of FBR applications on hand, with a view to significantly reducing the processing time for these applications. These measures, which include increased staffing directed towards the processing of FBR applications, have been successful in reducing the waiting time for applicants. FBR applications are now being processed within the normal turnaround times of between 6 and 9 months from receipt of supporting documents, down from over 2 years in September 2022.

rover76 · Post by **rover76** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:43 pm

rover76 wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:33 pm

kathleen9936 wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:15 pm
I keep reading about how applications received weeks/months after mine are much further along in the process than me, and it’s quite discouraging! So I’m posting my dates here in case there are others out there who feel a little overlooked:

Application submitted - 20/ Feb/2022
Documents received email - 21/Mar/2022
Confirmation of address email: ?
Congrats email: ?
Certificate received: ?
Thank you for posting this! I've excitedly watched the timeframes on the board shrink, only to see them pass me up. Interestingly enough, we have the same received day:

Application submitted - Dec/06/2021
Documents sent - Mar/01/2022 (delay gathering docs)
Documents received email - Mar/21/2022
Confirmation of address email: ?
Congrats email: ?
Certificate received: ?

Good news for my fellow applicants waiting over a year. I received my address confirmation today. Hopefully the longer wait means a quick congrats turnaround.

Application submitted - Dec/06/2021
Documents sent - Mar/01/2022 (delay gathering docs)
Documents received email - Mar/21/2022
Confirmation of address email: Mar/31/2022
Congrats email: ?
Certificate received: ?

GoingBackBackToEire · Post by **GoingBackBackToEire** » Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:17 am

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:06 pm

I don't want to turn this into an Adoption thread, but the conclusion you have come to is totally and utterly wrong. You're mother is not treated as "born in Ireland", s.11 INCA *does not do this*

Where I think you're going wrong is that you think "Irish Citizen" means "Irish Citizen". It doesn't.......

Here's the amended Act, for example:-

https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/19 ... ed/en/html

Section 6 "Irish Citizens", who are born on the island of Ireland, have a superpower, that no other type of Irish citizen *can give* - in that their children are automatically Irish citizens (whether they like it or not).

Children of Section 6 citizens are Section 7 "Irish Citizens". They cannot pass on automatically, their children can apply to become Section 27 citizens through FBR.

If you are adopted by, any type of Irish Citizen, you become a S.11 INCA Citizen automatically, it means you are treated like a Section 7 citizen. But that does not make you a Section 6 citizen. Your children apply via Section 27 FBR, like everybody else.

Maybe you can help me understand how this applies to my sister, Corky.

My grandfather was born in Ireland.
My mother was born in the US.
I became an Irish citizen via the FBR. (Yay!)

My sister was born in a third country and adopted by my parents in 1980.
Does my (adopted) sister have any claim on Irish citizenship? If so, what does she need to do to get a passport?

If I understand what you wrote, my mother and sister are both section 7 citizens? So my sister can apply for an Irish passport today?

I tried deciphering the law link you posted, but it's beyond my comprehension.

MikeyMike · Post by **MikeyMike** » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:47 am

GoingBackBackToEire wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:17 am

corky100 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:06 pm

I don't want to turn this into an Adoption thread, but the conclusion you have come to is totally and utterly wrong. You're mother is not treated as "born in Ireland", s.11 INCA *does not do this*

Where I think you're going wrong is that you think "Irish Citizen" means "Irish Citizen". It doesn't.......

Here's the amended Act, for example:-

https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/19 ... ed/en/html

Section 6 "Irish Citizens", who are born on the island of Ireland, have a superpower, that no other type of Irish citizen *can give* - in that their children are automatically Irish citizens (whether they like it or not).

Children of Section 6 citizens are Section 7 "Irish Citizens". They cannot pass on automatically, their children can apply to become Section 27 citizens through FBR.

If you are adopted by, any type of Irish Citizen, you become a S.11 INCA Citizen automatically, it means you are treated like a Section 7 citizen. But that does not make you a Section 6 citizen. Your children apply via Section 27 FBR, like everybody else.
Maybe you can help me understand how this applies to my sister, Corky.

My grandfather was born in Ireland.
My mother was born in the US.
I became an Irish citizen via the FBR. (Yay!)

My sister was born in a third country and adopted by my parents in 1980.
Does my (adopted) sister have any claim on Irish citizenship? If so, what does she need to do to get a passport?

If I understand what you wrote, my mother and sister are both section 7 citizens? So my sister can apply for an Irish passport today?

I tried deciphering the law link you posted, but it's beyond my comprehension.

This section of the DFA passport website explains it in strightforward terms: https://www.dfa.ie/passports/documentar ... .en.360959

Simply put, if you are adopted by an Irish citizen (regardless of where that person was born), you become an Irish citizen and can apply for a passport directly (as long as you can prove the adoption to the satisfaction of the Irish authorities). The means that an adopted child of an Irish citizen who was born abroad actually becomes Irish at the point of adoption. In comparision, a natural born child of that parent must apply for Irish citizenship through the FBR process and only becomes an Irish citizen from the day the FBR certificate is issued.

That's my understanding, anyway. I remember reading about this at the time I first looked in to FBR for myself and remarking that my (adopted) sister was already an Irish citizen and wouldn't have to go through the cost and expense of FBR, unlike me and my brothers. Particular to our circumstances, it also means that her children potentially have entitlement to Irish citizenship through FBR since she was adopted as a child, whereas my children don't as they were born before I joined the register.

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